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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo's success with the Switch both a blessing and a curse?

scottslater said:

I wouldn't worry about the Switch at all in 2020.  I believe very much that it will be the #1 selling system again for the next year.  Next gen consoles typically take a year or two to start selling at a rapid pace.  There is also budget to take into consideration.  These new consoles are likely to cost $400-$500 and for that kind of money you can buy a PS4/Xbox 1/Switch with several games and many will still do that for a couple years.

Nintendo has never had to rely on 3rd party support to sell their systems.  Sony/Microsoft heavy reliance on 3rd party games is a detriment IMO as it does not create brand loyalty.  You can see that with the last few generations (Xbox 360 being "more popular" than the PS3, the PS4 being "more popular" than the Xbox 1) and Nintendo has never really suffered that (the Wii U was just a major misstep as a whole and had nothing to do with 3rd party support).

Not sure if that's true. The ps4 sold 14,6m in 2014 and it makes sense that people are now waiting for the ps5/Scarlett instead of buying a ps4/Xbox. Obviously Nintendo has its exclusives that are its major draw but we've also seen that Mario and Zelda alone aren't enough to guarantee success next gen, if you look at what happened with the Gamecube and Wii-U. Besides, Sony has arguably the better and more varied exclusives.

To me the success with the Switch lies in the fact that it's a handheld with pretty impressive graphics at this moment. However, when the next gen hits, Switch graphics will look seriously more dated and support from 3rd party developers will be non-existent. Sure, you can say 3rd party games don't tend to sell on Nintendo consoles but that doesn't mean they don't need it at all. 



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goopy20 said:
scottslater said:

I wouldn't worry about the Switch at all in 2020.  I believe very much that it will be the #1 selling system again for the next year.  Next gen consoles typically take a year or two to start selling at a rapid pace.  There is also budget to take into consideration.  These new consoles are likely to cost $400-$500 and for that kind of money you can buy a PS4/Xbox 1/Switch with several games and many will still do that for a couple years.

Nintendo has never had to rely on 3rd party support to sell their systems.  Sony/Microsoft heavy reliance on 3rd party games is a detriment IMO as it does not create brand loyalty.  You can see that with the last few generations (Xbox 360 being "more popular" than the PS3, the PS4 being "more popular" than the Xbox 1) and Nintendo has never really suffered that (the Wii U was just a major misstep as a whole and had nothing to do with 3rd party support).

Not sure if that's true. The ps4 sold 14,6m in 2014 and it makes sense that people are now waiting for the ps5/Scarlett instead of buying a ps4/Xbox. Obviously Nintendo has its exclusives that are its major draw but we've also seen that Mario and Zelda alone aren't enough to guarantee success next gen, if you look at what happened with the Gamecube and Wii-U. Besides, Sony has arguably the better and more varied exclusives.

To me the success with the Switch lies in the fact that it's a handheld with pretty impressive graphics at this moment. However, when the next gen hits, Switch graphics will look seriously more dated and support from 3rd party developers will be non-existent. Sure, you can say 3rd party games don't tend to sell on Nintendo consoles but that doesn't mean they don't need it at all. 

PS4 sold 20 million units in 2016, so it took a couple years to reach it's peak selling power.  I can't find the data at this moment but if memory serves correctly the PS3/Xbox 360 still sold extremely well during the PS4/Xbox One early launch years (like 15+ million units per year).  Historically speaking next generation consoles take a couple years before peak sales are attained. The GameCube and Xbox were dominated by PS2 in their respective generation.  The Wii U was a marketing disaster and was a failure before it even launched.  There is still people to this day that don't realize it's a different system from the Wii.  And Nintendo has way better and varied exclusives.  And just to be clear, 3rd party developers needed the Wii, not the other way around.

The success with the Switch has nothing to do with graphics.  It already looks extremely dated compared to One X/PS4 Pro and yet still crushes sales.  It's games are crushing other games at the moment.  The Switch has shown that having the most powerful graphics doesn't matter to the majority of buyers, if it was it would have failed just as bad as the Wii U.  People want good and fun games, there is only so many times you can play CoD clones and adventure games like God of War/Fable before it becomes super repetitive and "boring".



Nintendo with the Switch:

RolStoppable said:
Switch will easily be the best-selling console in 2021 and probably in 2022 as well.

...because?



RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:

...because?

Because Nintendo, Japanese third parties and indies worldwide will continue to release lots of games for Switch. For 2020 you can expect sales to be similar to 2019 and that will continue into 2021 because the games will keep coming. The PS5 would not only have to have the strongest first year of any console in history, but beat the old record by a significant margin to beat Switch in 2021.

For 2022 you can still expect Switch sales to be above 15m, so Sony will need a weak Microsoft to have the PS5 sell above that mark.

The current fear-mongering is all about AAA third party games being so important, but the reality is that Switch will cost a lot less while being stacked with amazing exclusives when the PS5 and Scarlett show up. Nintendo isn't the console manufacturer who has to worry in the upcoming comparisons, especially because they'll continue to hold a monopoly in the portable console space. That's a factor that is commonly forgotten.

Makes sense. I think the PS5 will be a force to be reckoned with though. The PlayStation brand is still the biggest one in the industry and Sony are great (and one of the very few) at making AAA games without having the 60$ be the starting point and not the final price. MS will still be chasing Gamepass and microtransactions together with their bff EA.



KLXVER said:
RolStoppable said:

Because Nintendo, Japanese third parties and indies worldwide will continue to release lots of games for Switch. For 2020 you can expect sales to be similar to 2019 and that will continue into 2021 because the games will keep coming. The PS5 would not only have to have the strongest first year of any console in history, but beat the old record by a significant margin to beat Switch in 2021.

For 2022 you can still expect Switch sales to be above 15m, so Sony will need a weak Microsoft to have the PS5 sell above that mark.

The current fear-mongering is all about AAA third party games being so important, but the reality is that Switch will cost a lot less while being stacked with amazing exclusives when the PS5 and Scarlett show up. Nintendo isn't the console manufacturer who has to worry in the upcoming comparisons, especially because they'll continue to hold a monopoly in the portable console space. That's a factor that is commonly forgotten.

Makes sense. I think the PS5 will be a force to be reckoned with though. The PlayStation brand is still the biggest one in the industry and Sony are great (and one of the very few) at making AAA games without having the 60$ be the starting point and not the final price. MS will still be chasing Gamepass and microtransactions together with their bff EA.

I don't know if I would call PS the biggest brand... Nintendo's best games usually outsell PlayStation's best games (speaking about exclusives) by almost 2 to 1 and don't ever drop their price while maintaining those numbers.  And if you take the Combined hardware sales Nintendo has a larger saturation than Sony (and that's with Switch being around for a less time) this generation (PS4 + Vita is about 120.49 million units, 3DS + Wii U + Switch is at about 134.85 million, minus Wii U it's at 120.88 million).

EDIT: I have no idea what to make of Microsoft of the upcoming generation.  They were headed in the right direction during the Xbox 360 era but the Xbox One era has really set them back.

Last edited by scottslater - on 12 December 2019

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RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:

Makes sense. I think the PS5 will be a force to be reckoned with though. The PlayStation brand is still the biggest one in the industry and Sony are great (and one of the very few) at making AAA games without having the 60$ be the starting point and not the final price. MS will still be chasing Gamepass and microtransactions together with their bff EA.

The PS5's fortunes are going to see a serious damper if Microsoft is competent enough to not serve the PS5 the title of "multiplat console of choice" on a silver platter like they did for the PS4 with the XB1. Game Pass can be a significant factor in the equation because it means more games for less money; Game Pass is certainly not in the same category as microtransactions or other anti-consumer practices.

True, but Game Pass is not very good for anyone in the industry except for MS and publishers of failed games that MS might give a very small share of their profit. Its great for gamers at the moment, but look at how much better games sell on the PS4. Even with the install bases considered, its still insane. 



scottslater said:
KLXVER said:

Makes sense. I think the PS5 will be a force to be reckoned with though. The PlayStation brand is still the biggest one in the industry and Sony are great (and one of the very few) at making AAA games without having the 60$ be the starting point and not the final price. MS will still be chasing Gamepass and microtransactions together with their bff EA.

I don't know if I would call PS the biggest brand... Nintendo's best games usually outsell PlayStation's best games (speaking about exclusives) by almost 2 to 1 and don't ever drop their price while maintaining those numbers.  And if you take the Combined hardware sales Nintendo has a larger saturation than Sony (and that's with Switch being around for a less time) this generation (PS4 + Vita is about 120.49 million units, 3DS + Wii U + Switch is at about 134.85 million, minus Wii U it's at 120.88 million).

EDIT: I have no idea what to make of Microsoft of the upcoming generation.  They were headed in the right direction during the Xbox 360 era but the Xbox One era has really set them back.

Well it is the brand that is the most consistent. Nintendo keep rebranding their consoles and handhelds.



I don't know. I mean games can and will always look better but (to me) the 8th gen had the smallest leap in graphics ever. I feel like 9th gen gaming will be there same outside of VR. I don't want to downplay frame rate and resolution but I feel the Switch will be capable of compelling visuals for at least a couple more years. Besides, the selling point is the concept, not the power.

I do worry about "what's next", though. Nintendo is going to have to come up with some new idea with their next hardware. I don't know what that could be. Hopefully not another Wii U misstep.



RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:

True, but Game Pass is not very good for anyone in the industry except for MS and publishers of failed games that MS might give a very small share of their profit. Its great for gamers at the moment, but look at how much better games sell on the PS4. Even with the install bases considered, its still insane. 

I very much doubt that gamers will care about the profits for developers. Steam has been very popular for ages and it's just one big story of Valve screwing over one developer after another with a marketplace where steep discounts are common and basically expected by a lot of Steam's customers.

Well Steam and Game Pass are two very different things. Even if you do a discount on Steam, you still get money and you do have the choice of how much to discount it. Im not sure how Game Pass work, but Im guessing you get paid a fee upfront for your game and that's it. Now it doesn't matter how it fares and the physical and digital sales of your game will tank. Then people will just expect games to show up on Game Pass and not bother to buy games new. That will hurt MS a lot. I don't think they can support Game Pass and have a platform for third parties to thrive.



KLXVER said:
scottslater said:

I don't know if I would call PS the biggest brand... Nintendo's best games usually outsell PlayStation's best games (speaking about exclusives) by almost 2 to 1 and don't ever drop their price while maintaining those numbers.  And if you take the Combined hardware sales Nintendo has a larger saturation than Sony (and that's with Switch being around for a less time) this generation (PS4 + Vita is about 120.49 million units, 3DS + Wii U + Switch is at about 134.85 million, minus Wii U it's at 120.88 million).

EDIT: I have no idea what to make of Microsoft of the upcoming generation.  They were headed in the right direction during the Xbox 360 era but the Xbox One era has really set them back.

Well it is the brand that is the most consistent. Nintendo keep rebranding their consoles and handhelds.

Nintendo is the "brand".  I have a feeling though that the Switch brand is going to be the future for them going forward (Switch 2, Switch Pro, Switch Lite, etc) and they have learned their lesson with the Wii U.



Nintendo with the Switch: