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Forums - Sales Discussion - usa: "PS4 has already sold more units this week > the last several months combined"

StarDoor said:
colafitte said:

I knew i should not have named Wii, even if i said it was from a lot of reasons. I knew you could bring me that back. Erase Wii then from the conversation, like if i never mentioned it.

The moment Wii declined could've been an opportunity to PS3 to up their sales in USA like it happened in the rest of western regions, but it didn't happened in USA because X360 occupied Wii place during those years. Saying Kinect audience would have not bought a PS3 instead is something we will never know for sure. Maybe there was an audience post Wii era that wanted a COD console to play and Kinect was the defining factor to choose a X360 instead of a PS3 in USA. You can't prove that it was not a possibility.

This is just as applicable to your argument as it is to mine. "Saying the Switch audience would have bought a PS4 instead if Switch didn't exist is something we will never know for sure." We may never know for sure, but we can speculate based on the data we have. I think there's far more evidence of the Xbox 360 reaching outside the typical Sony/Microsoft audience than there is of the Switch stealing sales from PS4/XOne.

Speaking of data, here's more of it:

North America Europe Japan Rest of World Global
PS2 + Xbox 69.42M 62.45M 23.71M 26.75M 182.33M
PS3 + Xbox 360 78.53M 60.86M 12.13M 21.69M 173.21M
% Change +13.12% -2.55% -48.84% -18.92% -5.00%

http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/

It's no coincidence that Gen 7 sold considerably more in North America than Gen 6 despite declining in every other region. Gen 8 won't reach Gen 7 in the US because Kinect gave Xbox 360 wider appeal than a typical Sony/Microsoft console. That's all there is to it.

Your argument follows the same thought process as "consoles are dying because WiiU+XOne+PS4 are way behind Wii+360+PS3." Consumers are perfectly fine with not buying any console during a generation if they're all unappealing. It doesn't mean the audience has shrunk, or moved somewhere else.

I was not counting Nintendo consoles here because WiiU is a mess to compare to, that's why i was using what X360+PS3 did compared to what PS4+XBO are doing.

And yes, my point is just a speculation. I "believe" is what is happening because i can't proove any of it. I can't even tell you i am right and you're wrong, i'm not that confident, but i really believe that if one console cost 300$ to buy, with 60$ games to an audience that is mostly adults like PS4 audience, that console definitively affects the process of buying another console similar in price like PS4 or XBO. I'm not saying that any person buying only a Switch this holiday would buy a PS4 instead if Switch didn't existed, but i really believe that a considerable % of that consumer would've indeed bought a PS4 or XBO instead if that was the case, so in the end, yes, Switch is indeed affecting PS4 and XBO sales. How much??, i don't know, but it does.



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colafitte said:
zorg1000 said:

Read my last paragraph again, developing markets such as Eastern Europe, Latin America, Middle East &Southeast Asia are growing in economy and consumer spending but they are not yet on par with the developed regions like North America, Western Europe & Japan.

In Spain, a western developed market, PS4 sold 535k in 2015, 560k in 2016, 585k in 2017 and 590k in 2018. So is just not developing markets in other parts of he world....I'm pretty sure in France, Italy, Germany and other european markets PS4 sold more in 2017 or 2018 than in 2015 or 2016. I seriously doubt any european country had PS4 peak in 2015 like what happened in USA.

You sure about that?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hardware-and-software-sales-from-2012-to-2018-in-several-countries.143820/

UK-peak 2014

France-peak 2014

Germany-peak 2017

Spain-peak 2015

Italy-peak 2016

Benelux (Belguim, Netherlands, Luxemburg)-peak 2015

Northern Europe (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland)-peak 2015

Germany is the only notable Western European country that didnt peak in 2014-2016 yet Europe as a whole had it's best years in 2017 & 2018. How could that be?

Western Europe vs total Europe (Eastern Europe)

2014-5.53m vs 6.05m (0.52m)

2015-6.03m vs 6.86m (0.83m)

2016-5.72m vs 6.80m (1.08m)

2017-5.76m vs 7.89m (2.13m)

2018-5.31m vs 7.78m (2.47m)

Look at that, Western Europe peaked in 2015 while Eastern Europe peaked in 2018.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
colafitte said:

In Spain, a western developed market, PS4 sold 535k in 2015, 560k in 2016, 585k in 2017 and 590k in 2018. So is just not developing markets in other parts of he world....I'm pretty sure in France, Italy, Germany and other european markets PS4 sold more in 2017 or 2018 than in 2015 or 2016. I seriously doubt any european country had PS4 peak in 2015 like what happened in USA.

You sure about that?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hardware-and-software-sales-from-2012-to-2018-in-several-countries.143820/

UK-peak 2014

France-peak 2014

Germany-peak 2017

Spain-peak 2015

Italy-peak 2016

Benelux (Belguim, Netherlands, Luxemburg)-peak 2015

Northern Europe (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland)-peak 2015

Germany is the only notable Western European country that didnt peak in 2014-2016 yet Europe as a whole had it's best years in 2017 & 2018. How could that be?

Western Europe vs total Europe (Eastern Europe)

2014-5.53m vs 6.05m (0.52m)

2015-6.03m vs 6.86m (0.83m)

2016-5.72m vs 6.80m (1.08m)

2017-5.76m vs 7.89m (2.13m)

2018-5.31m vs 7.78m (2.47m)

Look at that, Western Europe peaked in 2015 while Eastern Europe peaked in 2018.

Those are shipment numbers from that data you're using and are not the same as sold to consumers. The numbers i gave you for Spain were official for those years and were sold to consumers. The numbers we were always disscussing, at least me, were sold to consumers.

According to VGC data, France's peak was in 2017 and UK's and Germany's peak were in 2018. I suppose VGC must be based in official tracking, so ..., yes, even Western Europe peaked in 2017-2018.



colafitte said:
zorg1000 said:

You sure about that?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hardware-and-software-sales-from-2012-to-2018-in-several-countries.143820/

UK-peak 2014

France-peak 2014

Germany-peak 2017

Spain-peak 2015

Italy-peak 2016

Benelux (Belguim, Netherlands, Luxemburg)-peak 2015

Northern Europe (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland)-peak 2015

Germany is the only notable Western European country that didnt peak in 2014-2016 yet Europe as a whole had it's best years in 2017 & 2018. How could that be?

Western Europe vs total Europe (Eastern Europe)

2014-5.53m vs 6.05m (0.52m)

2015-6.03m vs 6.86m (0.83m)

2016-5.72m vs 6.80m (1.08m)

2017-5.76m vs 7.89m (2.13m)

2018-5.31m vs 7.78m (2.47m)

Look at that, Western Europe peaked in 2015 while Eastern Europe peaked in 2018.

Those are shipment numbers from that data you're using and are not the same as sold to consumers. The numbers i gave you for Spain were official for those years and were sold to consumers. The numbers we were always disscussing, at least me, were sold to consumers.

According to VGC data, France's peak was in 2017 and UK's and Germany's peak were in 2018. I suppose VGC must be based in official tracking, so ..., yes, even Western Europe peaked in 2017-2018.

It literally says sell through in the link I posted, it's not shipments.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
colafitte said:

Those are shipment numbers from that data you're using and are not the same as sold to consumers. The numbers i gave you for Spain were official for those years and were sold to consumers. The numbers we were always disscussing, at least me, were sold to consumers.

According to VGC data, France's peak was in 2017 and UK's and Germany's peak were in 2018. I suppose VGC must be based in official tracking, so ..., yes, even Western Europe peaked in 2017-2018.

It literally says sell through in the link I posted, it's not shipments.

They are. Look at the total numbers at the end for PS4 and Switch. It shows around 94M for PS4 and 32M for Switch at the end of 2018. Those were shipment numbers. 

The link says it takes numbers  "From the CESA report, sell-through data from 2012 to 2018 in many countries" but this doesn't mean all the numbers combined are sell-through. If the total amount of sales showed there put PS4 at 94M and Switch at 32M at the end of 2018 they're definitively shipment numbers.

I can totally guarantee you that PS4 did not "sell to consumers" 750k in 2014 and 900k in 2015 in Spain like it's showing that graph. Those has to be shipment numbers in case of being true.

And if it's mixing shipment numbers with sell-through numbers in some markets, then maybe that data is not that accurate after all.

Last edited by colafitte - on 02 December 2019

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colafitte said:
zorg1000 said:

It literally says sell through in the link I posted, it's not shipments.

They are. Look at the total numbers at the end for PS4 and Switch. It shows around 94M for PS4 and 32M for Switch at the end of 2018. Those were shipment numbers. 

The link says it takes numbers  "From the CESA report, sell-through data from 2012 to 2018 in many countries" but this doesn't mean all the numbers combined are sell-through. If the total amount of sales showed there put PS4 at 94M and Switch at 32M at the end of 2018 they're definitively shipment numbers.

I can totally guarantee you that PS4 did not "sel to consumersl" 900k in 2014 in Spain like it's showing that graph. Those has to be shipment numbers in case of being true.

Its sell through, USA is based on NPD, Japan based on Media Create/Famitsu and Europe based on Gfk while RotW are estimates which explains the slight discrepancies.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
colafitte said:

They are. Look at the total numbers at the end for PS4 and Switch. It shows around 94M for PS4 and 32M for Switch at the end of 2018. Those were shipment numbers. 

The link says it takes numbers  "From the CESA report, sell-through data from 2012 to 2018 in many countries" but this doesn't mean all the numbers combined are sell-through. If the total amount of sales showed there put PS4 at 94M and Switch at 32M at the end of 2018 they're definitively shipment numbers.

I can totally guarantee you that PS4 did not "sel to consumersl" 900k in 2014 in Spain like it's showing that graph. Those has to be shipment numbers in case of being true.

Its sell through, USA is based on NPD, Japan based on Media Create/Famitsu and Europe based on Gfk while RotW are estimates which explains the slight discrepancies.

Those USA numbers are indeed NPD, but i'm telling you those spanish numbers are not sell-through i saw the same GfK data in Spain saying that, so i can't believe any of the other european markets that are probably using the same tracking system. And in the end, the same guy put the total of PS4 and Switch using shipment numbers, so there's something fishy in this data.

This article from Vandal, the very same page that give us updated numbers from software in Spain put this article.

https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/1350721921/en-espana-la-ps4-normal-se-vende-cuatro-veces-mas-que-ps4-pro/

It shows the numbers from 2015 through 2018 and they are what i posted earlier. Between 500-600k each year. And i have to remind you that PS4 had an excellent start during its first year too (ending 2014).

Then this other article citing Sony itself saying PS4 have sold 3'3M lifetime around mid-half 2019 since launch.

https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/1350727730/sony-ha-vendido-casi-3-millones-de-ps4-en-espana/

That graph you brought says PS4 had already sold 3'6M by the end of 2018. If Spanish numbers are wrong, i can't trust any of the other european numbers showed in there.

Edit: And besides, i think i remember now Zhuge saying in resetera that those numbers were  not completely accurate in Europe but they were close enough.

Last edited by colafitte - on 02 December 2019

colafitte said:
zorg1000 said:

Its sell through, USA is based on NPD, Japan based on Media Create/Famitsu and Europe based on Gfk while RotW are estimates which explains the slight discrepancies.

Those USA numbers are indeed NPD, but i'm telling you those spanish numbers are not sell-through i saw the same GfK data in Spain saying that, so i can't believe any of the other european markets that are probably using the same tracking system. And in the end, the same guy put the total of PS4 and Switch using shipment numbers, so there's something fishy in this data.

This article from Vandal, the very same page that give us updated numbers from software in Spain put this article.

https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/1350721921/en-espana-la-ps4-normal-se-vende-cuatro-veces-mas-que-ps4-pro/

It shows the numbers from 2015 through 2018 and they are what i posted earlier. Between 500-600k each year. And i have to remind you that PS4 had an excellent start during its first year too (ending 2014).

Then this other article citing Sony itself saying PS4 have sold 3'3M lifetime around mid-half 2019 since launch.

https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/1350727730/sony-ha-vendido-casi-3-millones-de-ps4-en-espana/

That graph you brought says PS4 had already sold 3'6M by the end of 2018. If Spanish numbers are wrong, i can't trust any of the other european numbers showed in there.

Your numbers arent adding up either. The 2015-2018 numbers you posted add up to 2.27 million and they reported 134k for the 2013 launch putting it to ~2.4 million

The 3.3 million figure is from end of March 2019 so that would mean 2014+Q1 2019 would be about 900k which would make 2014 the peak year anyway.

My personal theory is that the Spain numbers in the link I posted also include Portugal, similar to how Northern Europe & Benelux were blocked together.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

@colafite
Man you are just wrong.
PS4 had its best year when Switch released. The sales curve and peak of PS4 are very much what was expected.
Each market have a slight different sales curve and peak point.
It was expected that one point PS3+X360 would close the lead from PS4 and X1, because X1 started much stronger than X360 but after couple years it got a lot weaker and we had plenty of sure that Kinect would make X360 get ahead of X1 at one time (and as show to you it was more in USA).
Also Wii declined due to itself and Nintendo moving to WiiU SW development, had nothing to do with PS3, X360 or even Kinect.
You have been show the graphics, you are just being stubborn.

Fun note PS3 could have outsold X360 in USA if it didn't had Kinect,



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

We are talking about systems that are 6 years old at this point and are about to take a gen leap next year, nothing is more conducive to their dwindling sales than that.