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Forums - Sales Discussion - September NPD 2019 thread

SpokenTruth said:

This is 100% true but still doesn't explain the complete lock down of numbers.

The NPD reports that companies pay for are huge.  The volume of data and analysis is just massive.  The top 10 list is just a tiny, and somewhat irrelevant sliver, of what NPD reports cover and are valued for.  By that I mean no company is paying $10k per month just for top 10 lists.  It's the deep dive they pay for.  The return sales for warranty information they pay for.  The trending analysis they pay for.  They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for.  They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for.  The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for.  It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for.  It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

This whole hide the monthly top 10 from consumers bit because it would devalue the overall product....?  Like an NPD subscription itself, I don't buy that.

Of course it does! 

NPD sees this as valuable information so the only way to protect this value is to effectively gate it off from the public. NPD's business relies on collecting data solely for the purpose of sharing it to their customers, not for the public ... 

It's hard work to compile data so it's reasonable for them to take measures so that others don't profit off from it or make use of it ... 



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fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

This is 100% true but still doesn't explain the complete lock down of numbers.

The NPD reports that companies pay for are huge.  The volume of data and analysis is just massive.  The top 10 list is just a tiny, and somewhat irrelevant sliver, of what NPD reports cover and are valued for.  By that I mean no company is paying $10k per month just for top 10 lists.  It's the deep dive they pay for.  The return sales for warranty information they pay for.  The trending analysis they pay for.  They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for.  They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for.  The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for.  It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for.  It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

This whole hide the monthly top 10 from consumers bit because it would devalue the overall product....?  Like an NPD subscription itself, I don't buy that.

Of course it does! 

NPD sees this as valuable information so the only way to protect this value is to effectively gate it off from the public. NPD's business relies on collecting data solely for the purpose of sharing it to their customers, not for the public ... 

It's hard work to compile data so it's reasonable for them to take measures so that others don't profit off from it or make use of it ... 

I'll phrase it a different way.....

Companies paying $10k per month are not paying for the top 10 monthly sales chart.  That's a tiny byproduct.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

I'll phrase it a different way.....

Companies paying $10k per month are not paying for the top 10 monthly sales chart.  That's a tiny byproduct.

What if I told you that the top 10 monthly chart was far more valuable relative to the rest of the NPD Group's other data ? 

Not all data has the same value ... 



fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'll phrase it a different way.....

Companies paying $10k per month are not paying for the top 10 monthly sales chart.  That's a tiny byproduct.

What if I told you that the top 10 monthly chart was far more valuable relative to the rest of the NPD Group's other data ? 

Not all data has the same value ... 

The top 10 monthly sales is more valuable than.....

It's the deep dive they pay for. The return sales for warranty information they pay for. The trending analysis they pay for. They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for. They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for. The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for. It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for. It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

??????



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

The top 10 monthly sales is more valuable than.....

It's the deep dive they pay for. The return sales for warranty information they pay for. The trending analysis they pay for. They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for. They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for. The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for. It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for. It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

??????

Just because you don't see much value in the top 10 monthly sales data doesn't mean that NPD or their customers don't ... 

This is exactly what I meant by unduly profiting off from their work and now I can see why the NPD Group would rather opt-in for more secrecy if it means stopping this behaviour ... 

Don't worry though, if you don't appreciate the value of some of the data they collect then their customers will by plopping ~$10K a month to show for it and the top 10 monthly sales data is included in a part of that package ... 

How hard is it to understand that they don't want to diminish the value of ANY of their data ? 



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fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

The top 10 monthly sales is more valuable than.....

It's the deep dive they pay for. The return sales for warranty information they pay for. The trending analysis they pay for. They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for. They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for. The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for. It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for. It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

??????

Just because you don't see much value in the top 10 monthly sales data doesn't mean that NPD or their customers don't ... 

This is exactly what I meant by unduly profiting off from their work and now I can see why the NPD Group would rather opt-in for more secrecy if it means stopping this behaviour ... 

Don't worry though, if you don't appreciate the value of some of the data they collect then their customers will by plopping ~$10K a month to show for it and the top 10 monthly sales data is included in a part of that package ... 

How hard is it to understand that they don't want to diminish the value of ANY of their data ? 

Read what I said again.  Because you seem to be under the impression I said the Top 10 Monthly Sales didn't have any value at all.  So, go read that again.

And by the way, customers paid that $10k per month even when the data was public.  And they didn't gain any new customers on the sale basis that the top 10 became private.  The Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart is not worth $10k per month. The deep dive analytics, return sales for warranty information, trending analysis they pay for, predictive analytics, regional data, tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI, individual store POS to stock level data, retailer vs retailer data, the weekly data, etc..... THAT's worth $10k.

NPDs decision to remove the Top 10 from public disclosure was not a value-add move. It was not a customer retention move.  It was not a customer acquisition move.  

And I don't know what behavior your accusing me, nor what behavior I have engaged in that would be detrimental to the value of NPDs Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar data.  



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

Read what I said again.  Because you seem to be under the impression I said the Top 10 Monthly Sales didn't have any value at all.  So, go read that again.

Then why are you downplaying the value of the top 10 monthly sales data so much ? 

SpokenTruth said:

And by the way, customers paid that $10k per month even when the data was public.  And they didn't gain any new customers on the sale basis that the top 10 became private.  The Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart is not worth $10k per month. The deep dive analytics, return sales for warranty information, trending analysis they pay for, predictive analytics, regional data, tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI, individual store POS to stock level data, retailer vs retailer data, the weekly data, etc..... THAT's worth $10k.

It is to the NPD, end of story ...

Also analysis is not useful without the data ... 

SpokenTruth said:

NPDs decision to remove the Top 10 from public disclosure was not a value-add move. It was not a customer retention move.  It was not a customer acquisition move.  

NPDs crackdown on leakers would indicate otherwise ... 

SpokenTruth said:

And I don't know what behavior your accusing me, nor what behavior I have engaged in that would be detrimental to the value of NPDs Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar data.  

Well here's one which is you right now belittling the value of some of the work they're doing ... 



fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

Read what I said again.  Because you seem to be under the impression I said the Top 10 Monthly Sales didn't have any value at all.  So, go read that again.

1). Then why are you downplaying the value of the top 10 monthly sales data so much ? 

SpokenTruth said:

And by the way, customers paid that $10k per month even when the data was public.  And they didn't gain any new customers on the sale basis that the top 10 became private.  The Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart is not worth $10k per month. The deep dive analytics, return sales for warranty information, trending analysis they pay for, predictive analytics, regional data, tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI, individual store POS to stock level data, retailer vs retailer data, the weekly data, etc..... THAT's worth $10k.

2). It is to the NPD, end of story ...

Also analysis is not useful without the data ... 

SpokenTruth said:

NPDs decision to remove the Top 10 from public disclosure was not a value-add move. It was not a customer retention move.  It was not a customer acquisition move.  

3). NPDs crackdown on leakers would indicate otherwise ... 

SpokenTruth said:

And I don't know what behavior your accusing me, nor what behavior I have engaged in that would be detrimental to the value of NPDs Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar data.  

4). Well here's one which is you right now belittling the value of some of the work they're doing ... 

1 and 4). You are seriously confusing the concepts of worthless and worth less. I said the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart is worth less than X.  X being a voluminous mix of data, analysis, projections, trending, analytics, etc....  You seem to be under the impression I called the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart worthless, rather than worth less than...X.

2). Analysis is not useful without the data?  That statement doesn't make any sense in this context.  The customers always had the data.  It's not as though customers are only just now getting data to go along with the analysis simply because NPD stopped publicly disclosing the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart.  The data was always there for the customers. 

2 and 3). No, that would be because it's a breach of contract. It's not that a leak of the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart 100% devalues a $10k product to 0$.  It's that each customer signs a non-disclosure agreement.  Leaks show a lack of confidence in the data privacy of an expensive product. And it's two-fold. The data itself is proprietary to NPD and the data is specific to rival corporations.  Company A doesn't want Company B knowing details about Company A's data. 

Further, the changing dynamics of the industry have made the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart "worth less" over time.  Digital, subscriptions, etc...   Just look at VGC itself, for goodness sake.  They have they stopped doing weekly software sales for the same reason.  ESA president Michael Gallagher even called the NPD Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart irrelevant as far back as June, 2013.  If the Entertainment Software Association president says the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart aren't worth even that long ago....how in the hell can you claim it's worth $10k per month 6 years later?

Or what about a quote from NPD Executive Director David Riley in 2010 regarding this very issue, "pricing has nothing to do with this move," NPD did separately acknowledge that it decided to change its reporting "in order to address the changing sales landscape, as well as updates to NPD's corporate publishing policies."  Riley added, "Even news-publishing clients who have access to the full data upon initial release, Riley said, "are not permitted to use this information for journalism."

THIS is why NPD has removed the Top 10 Monthly Combined Sales per unit dollar chart from public disclosure.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

So, no new numbers?



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fatslob-:O said:
SpokenTruth said:

This is 100% true but still doesn't explain the complete lock down of numbers.

The NPD reports that companies pay for are huge.  The volume of data and analysis is just massive.  The top 10 list is just a tiny, and somewhat irrelevant sliver, of what NPD reports cover and are valued for.  By that I mean no company is paying $10k per month just for top 10 lists.  It's the deep dive they pay for.  The return sales for warranty information they pay for.  The trending analysis they pay for.  They predictive analytics they pay for. The regional data they pay for.  They tie-ins with marketing budgets to measure ROI they pay for.  The individual store POS to stock level data they pay for.  It's the retailer vs retailer data they pay for.  It's the weekly (not just monthly) data they pay for.

This whole hide the monthly top 10 from consumers bit because it would devalue the overall product....?  Like an NPD subscription itself, I don't buy that.

Of course it does! 

NPD sees this as valuable information so the only way to protect this value is to effectively gate it off from the public. NPD's business relies on collecting data solely for the purpose of sharing it to their customers, not for the public ... 

It's hard work to compile data so it's reasonable for them to take measures so that others don't profit off from it or make use of it ... 

The value is in the reports which have far more detail than sales numbers. These companies are not paying thousands of dollars to get how much game X sold, especially as that information was given away for free while reports were being sold. You're paying for the analysis. 

It's hard to not see the NPD's current set-up as nothing more than marketing for the ESA. Only give out good news and spin the rest. Not like anyone can check the numbers. 



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