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Forums - Politics Discussion - "Anti fascists" Severely Beat Journalist

eva01beserk said:
@Machiavellian
You can try and spin it any way you want it. As long as you keep saying he had it coming cuz he had no business being there, you are condoning the violence. the rest of your argument is invalid as you counter it by giving them the excuse.

Who said he had it coming.  Never said that nor is it implied.  I will ask you a question.  If there is fire, will you walk directly into the fire expecting nothing to happen or would you protect yourself.  There is 2 situations here.  Mr. Ngo walked directly into fire and all you guys are like poor Mr. Ngo he got burned. Even your next statement stating people are condoning violence because we are stating he was stupid for walking directly into a violent situation and not being prepared for the worst.  Lol dude get over yourself. I am saying why did Mr. Ngo walk directly into fire and not be prepared to protect himself.  He either wanted that beating or he was foolish.

So if you walked directly into a group of gangbangers and they kicked your butt.  Would you be the person who says "Its my right to walk down this street".  I would say yes, it is your right to walk down that street but that would still make you a fool for walking directly into the middle of a group that will harm.  You can wrap yourself in your rights all day long but this is how people get killed every day.

Antifa is a violent group and I have stated they should be disbanded since they cannot control their members.  Actually Antifa has the same problem as the BLM group.  When you have no centralize control, anyone can proclaim to be part of your group and the more violent people will destroy anything you try to accomplish.



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vivster said:
teamsilent13 said:

I live in the northeast and there is a strong antifa presence here. These are bad human beings in their heart and mind. Nothing they do is anti-fascist in favor of decency. They are literally just terrorists. I'm mixed raced and the only way I can describe these people is full blown communist degenerate satanists. A couple people I personally know who joined antifa were literal drug addicts who choose not to work. It also bothers me that this guy who is hurt gets more attention because he is gay and Asian where straight white men attacked by antifa do not get the same treatment. This is to be fair, a bit of tokenism. That being said Communists have no right to be in America. Antifa needs to be labeled a terrorist organization and laws and punishment for their crimes need to reflect that.

What punishment do you propose for bigots who promote violence, i.e. our dear victim?

evidence? so far every time I have requested evidence for this guy being a far right proud boy I have been ignored, are you going to be the first and actually give me some receipts?



Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:

"Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter."

what are you basing him being a conservative reporter on?

"Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond"

what makes him a conservative?

His own words, why ask me questions you already know the answer to.

"This is what appears to be the aim here."

oh he sustained injuries which caused him to bleed in his brain to criticise the left? lol

Or he stepped into the middle of a violent group without any precautions expecting to be saved by nuns.

why are you denying the leftists who beat him their agency? are they not responsible for their actions? why is everything with you revolving around his(the victim) actions?

This is the difference with your stance and mine.  I actually do not care about the left or right, I am putting the responsibility on Mr. Ngo.  Your agenda is to bring the whole left equation into the conversation because that is your purpose.  To you it's the unholy left making a victim of Mr. Ngo.  While what I see is a man putting himself into a dangerous situation and it happen.  If every one of the people who attacked Mr. Ngo got jail time, I would also applaud that as well but that still doesn't dismiss Mr. Ngo placing himself into that situation.  You dismiss his actions because you want to make it political.  I am just talking about people making dumb dangerous decisions and not taking precautions.

" As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right"

the right are capable of evil too, what does that have to do with this man being beaten savagely by far leftists?

Take my whole paragraph in context not the blurb.  The aim here is to point the finger and make it political.  You say this man was savagely beaten by the left but that isn't correct.  This man was beaten by Antifa and even if just saying that it still wouldn't totally be correct. This man was beat by people associated by Antifa.  Your statement tries to paint everyone on the left beating this man and you want to make it seem as if the left as in everyone performing this act when it was just a few people in this group.  What you are doing isn't knew and its been done so many times it become obvious the slant taken.

"it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all."

based on what?

Based on the above.  Since you want to make it about the left instead of making it about Antifa.  You want to associate it with the left instead of associating the acts on the group and the people involved.  Your agenda is to paint the left as Antifa instead of just recognizing this group as violent.

"I actually do not care about the left or right, I am putting the responsibility on Mr. Ngo."

so you are blaming the victim for being victimised?

"While what I see is a man putting himself into a dangerous situation and it happen."

yeah fuck that guy for actually going out into public to do his job

"The aim here is to point the finger and make it political."

because I identified his attackers?

"This man was beat by people associated by Antifa. "

why haven't you reported this to the police? everyone is under the impression that it was antifa

who beat this man then? can you identify them for us?

"You say this man was savagely beaten by the left but that isn't correct.  This man was beaten by Antifa and even if just saying that it still wouldn't totally be correct."

"Your statement tries to paint everyone on the left beating this man"

"Since you want to make it about the left instead of making it about Antifa."

"Your agenda is to paint the left as Antifa"

based on what? quote me specifically where I've said that antifa and the left are the same rather than antifa being a portion of the left

are you in denial that antifa are a portion of the left?



RolStoppable said:

The general problem that this thread has is too many people who are fixated on a binary context. They'd like things to be simplified to "good vs. bad", so the thread is stuck in a stalemate situation where no inch is being given. Since Antifa is determined to be bad, Ngo must be good and a blameless victim. It's not even uncommon to go a step further, so Antifa gets linked to the left, therefore the left is bad and the right is good. But if people in this thread were able to move past a binary context, it would open up the possibility to see things how they really are.

Ngo is the equivalent of a bully who constantly dishes out verbal abuse and uses backhanded tactics, and one day a few of his targets punched him. The good vs. bad context forces people to sympathize with Ngo, but those who don't subscribe to such a context see a bad vs. bad situation and therefore don't sympathize with the bully who faced consequences for his actions that were more than mere words. This lack of sympathy doesn't equate to a conclusion that violence is the only possible option against people like Ngo.

The first step necessary for progress in this thread is that it gets acknowledged by the right-leaning people that Ngo is an asshole. The left-leaning people have had no problem to acknowledge that Antifa is bad. From there, it's possible to come to an agreement that there are lots of assholes in the USA and that neither the democrats or republicans have the grounds for an honest claim of being the good guys. After all, both parties block changes to the election system, because the way things are now means that the worst case scenario for either party is a very large minority. It wouldn't be so bad if Americans could separate themselves from the toxic left vs. right context, take a step back and look at the big picture. Things are much easier in Europe because the variety of political parties doesn't lend itself to left-leaning and right-leaning people being prone to associate themselves with the far-left and far-right, so discussions are a lot more nuanced.

"The general problem that this thread has is too many people who are fixated on a binary context."

"The first step necessary for progress in this thread is that it gets acknowledged by the right-leaning people"

so you want to turn down the binary polarisation by exacerbating it to start with? why does a person's political position matter in condemning antifa?

"Ngo is the equivalent of a bully who constantly dishes out verbal abuse"

then post it? why do you people think its ok to constantly slander this man without actually providing evidence?

" Ngo must be good and a blameless victim."

so far the only bad thing people have posted is that he has exposed assholes like this guy:

which makes him a HERO



RolStoppable said:
Immersiveunreality said:

You're letting me down.

Unavoidable to use violence because of opinions hurting us?

How much do you want to violate the intolerant for them just using words?

I've read a long article parallel to posting here and there it says that the far-right has murdered more than 100 people in the USA in the past ten years as opposed to 0 murders by Antifa. Clearly, the intolerant aren't only using words.

More importantly though, the government needs to do a better job, but I suppose that clashes with the idea of free speech.

EDIT: Finished reading the article. Was a good read because it examined three different angles: The left, the right and the big picture.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/3/20677645/antifa-portland-andy-ngo-proud-boys

Also contains a sample of Ngo's work which is hilariously bad.

EDIT2: This is so funny that it deserves its own link.

https://splinternews.com/london-has-fallen-according-to-this-racist-wall-street-1828725242

It looked like it examined three different angles but that article comes off as having a background agenda.

-It has no problem with calling Ngo far-right while calling the militant antifa just left wing.

-It acts like the right should be happy to have violators on the left wing so they can use mainstream media to propagate that bad behaviour and that is just a disgusting way to think,take the worst people and make them the standard for all of the rightwing so bad actions from our side are excusable?It is a strange argumentation and its goal really seems like making that assault a lesser offense.

A lot of those antifa members had their face covered,damn coward sheeps not even brave enough to do that for their beliefs when it might get them hurt afterwards.

I do agree on the second link.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 08 July 2019

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Srassy said:
Machiavellian said:

Who said he had it coming.  Never said that nor is it implied.  I will ask you a question.  If there is fire, will you walk directly into the fire expecting nothing to happen or would you protect yourself.  There is 2 situations here.  Mr. Ngo walked directly into fire and all you guys are like poor Mr. Ngo he got burned. Even your next statement stating people are condoning violence because we are stating he was stupid for walking directly into a violent situation and not being prepared for the worst.  Lol dude get over yourself. I am saying why did Mr. Ngo walk directly into fire and not be prepared to protect himself.  He either wanted that beating or he was foolish.

So if you walked directly into a group of gangbangers and they kicked your butt.  Would you be the person who says "Its my right to walk down this street".  I would say yes, it is your right to walk down that street but that would still make you a fool for walking directly into the middle of a group that will harm.  You can wrap yourself in your rights all day long but this is how people get killed every day.

Antifa is a violent group and I have stated they should be disbanded since they cannot control their members.  Actually Antifa has the same problem as the BLM group.  When you have no centralize control, anyone can proclaim to be part of your group and the more violent people will destroy anything you try to accomplish.

Ngo has to walk into the fire though.  He's a journalist.  He might know the fire burns you but you have to show other people that don't know.

Yes, Mr. Ngo can choose to walk into the fire, but he doesn't have to choose to walk unprotected.  There are a dozen things he could have done to make sure he prevented what happen or at least made sure he didn't get sucker punched like he did. Its not like he was on the Proud Boys side of this Protest.  Its not like he notified the police he was a target and at least made sure he was in a well protected area.

What you describe is exactly what I have been saying.  Mr. Ngo made a conscious choice to walk into that fire, understanding full well the danger and he got exactly what he should have expected.  He wanted that confrontation and Antifa did not let him down.  In my opinion he took one for the team.  Now he get to go on all the networks, internet and major media to tell his story and also get a nice little piece of cash for his troubles and injuries.  Not bad for a days work.



Antifa are fascists.

Mostly they're stupid fascists, who don't understand the nature of their own ideology -- they honestly believe themselves to be the good guys -- but that's the way of it, and I suppose it was true of the OG Nazis as well. Those (inside and outside of this thread) who advocate that sometimes violence is necessary to deal with people who believe the wrong things, or say the wrong things, are advocating for fascism, whether they are aware of it or not.

This Ngo guy? I have no idea about him and I don't really care about him outside of this: that you should be free to walk the streets of the USA (or, I suppose, document activities as a journalist) without facing violence or the threat of violence. This applies equally to "left" and "right." Every other detail is insignificant.



o_O.Q said:
Machiavellian said:

"I actually do not care about the left or right, I am putting the responsibility on Mr. Ngo."

so you are blaming the victim for being victimised?

No, I am blaming the person who isn't just some victim.  I am saying he made a conscious choice to walk into a group of angry, violent people with no other plan but to take a beating.  You want to make him out to be a victim, I am saying he is either a fool or he knew exactly what he was doing.  Which is it????

"While what I see is a man putting himself into a dangerous situation and it happen."

yeah fuck that guy for actually going out into public to do his job

Lol.  You act as if he was just coming out of his home and he got beat up.  You totally just dismiss the fact he made a conscious choice to walk into the middle of a dangerous group of people who marked him before the event which he knew about.  Oh poor Mr. Ngo going into danger for doing his Job lol.  What do you think everyone is an idiot and would not see this coming.  Yeah right.

"The aim here is to point the finger and make it political."

because I identified his attackers?

Yes, his Attackers are Antifa but that isn't what you are doing.  You are trying to tie every violent action of Antifa to the left which is your true agenda.  You care no more about Mr. Ngo then anyone else.  Instead he is just a tool for you to use to throw around your opinion about the violent left.  This part you will not admit.

"This man was beat by people associated by Antifa. "

why haven't you reported this to the police? everyone is under the impression that it was antifa

who beat this man then? can you identify them for us?

I have no clue what you are saying here.  No one is doubting this part of the story.

"You say this man was savagely beaten by the left but that isn't correct.  This man was beaten by Antifa and even if just saying that it still wouldn't totally be correct."

"Your statement tries to paint everyone on the left beating this man"

"Since you want to make it about the left instead of making it about Antifa."

"Your agenda is to paint the left as Antifa"

based on what? quote me specifically where I've said that antifa and the left are the same rather than antifa being a portion of the left

are you in denial that antifa are a portion of the left?

I am basing my opinion on your own words because you keep bringing up the left into the conversation.  Even that line I made a statement about you did not say he was beaten by Antifa, you said he was beaten by the Left.  Why don't you look at your own words and you will see your bias.



o_O.Q said:
vivster said:

What punishment do you propose for bigots who promote violence, i.e. our dear victim?

evidence? so far every time I have requested evidence for this guy being a far right proud boy I have been ignored, are you going to be the first and actually give me some receipts?

Who needs evidence? Someone on the Left can just claim anyone that has different ideals than them are Nazis and the rest will just buy it and label them as such. Makes debating your beliefs much easier when you don't actually have to debate. Or can't.



RolStoppable said:
Immersiveunreality said:

It looked like it examined three different angles but that article comes off as having a background agenda.

-It has no problem with calling Ngo far-right while calling the militant antifa just left wing.

-It acts like the right should be happy to have violators on the left wing so they can use mainstream media to propagate that bad behaviour and that is just a disgusting way to think,take the worst people and make them the standard for all of the rightwing so bad actions from our side are excusable?It is a strange argumentation and its goal really seems like making that assault a lesser offense.

A lot of those antifa members had their face covered,damn coward sheeps not even brave enough to do that for their beliefs when it might get them hurt afterwards.

I do agree on the second link.

1. That would be a right wing agenda. Ngo gets shoved in the corner of deplorables to distance the right from the far-right while the same isn't done for Antifa to separate the left from the far-left.

2. That would be a left wing agenda.

That's why it's a good article. People will see what they want to see.

Bolded:I doubt that was intentional hence why i doubt it is a direct right wing agenda in this case but yes it could serve as a right wing agenda for others,much less could be used for that.

If we are left with just assuming we could say that the assumption with the most logical outcome would be that when putting a person in the alt-right group is often used as a way to villianize one with opposing political ideas.(opinion)

Second bolded: Including ourselves right? :p