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Forums - Politics Discussion - "Anti fascists" Severely Beat Journalist

Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:

can you explain how its a fallacy beyond assertion?

the left states constantly that questioning a victim's actions is victim blaming (when its a woman)

"Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially at fault for the harm that befell them. The study of victimology seeks to mitigate the prejudice against victims, and the perception that victimsare in any way responsible for the actions of offenders."

now the left beat the shit out of a journalist and what is happening? suddenly its completely ok to criticise the actions of the victim and lets not forget that his actions were simply standing there with a camera

ok look, here's a dude kicking the shit out of a woman

is it ok to victim blame her too? or is it different because she's a woman?

Yes, Antifa is violent. Yes their are violent groups so what is your point.  Is your point to show that Antifa is violent or is your agenda to make some connection to all people on the left.  This is pretty much what I see.  This isn't about how violent Antifa is but instead a way to tie it to people who are on the left.  Its no better than someone trying to show how violent the Proud boys are and trying to tie that to all people on the right.  What you are doing is no better.

"Yes their are violent groups so what is your point. "

my point in that post was that leftists trying to excuse the violence of antifa by calling out this man for exposing antifa is highly hypocritical since they are the ones who decry victim blaming, to me it pretty much shows that they don't really believe in the values they claim to stand for

"Is your point to show that Antifa is violent or is your agenda to make some connection to all people on the left."

what have I posted can be interpreted that way?

"Its no better than someone trying to show how violent the Proud boys are and trying to tie that to all people on the right."

what about people calling andy ngo far right and not posting any evidence for that assertion? how does that compare?



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o_O.Q said:
Machiavellian said:

I do not have sympathy for him because he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew before the event that he was a target.  Antifa group stated they were on the lookout for him and he tweeted about it.  If you are going to go into a violent group expecting nothing to happen he either had to be a fool or did it on purpose.  Either way, it was his decision and he knew the risk.

Lets be honest here, it has nothing to do with being brave it's the fact that the group is violent and if you are looking to trigger that violence you will get what you want.  Its like someone going and hitting a hornet nest and expecting nothing to happen.

This has nothing to do with what someone deserves, it has everything to do with people choices. Even though I do not sympathize with Ngo, I feel if he is willing to take that beating for his work then so be it but running into the middle of that group definitely was a ballsy move no matter the situation.

he's a reporter, were you expecting him to quit his job?

I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him.  If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier.  Either way, it was his decision.  People put themselves into dangerous situations all the time if things go south, well sometimes they do not make it.  

My point is that Mr. Ngo knew the situation.  He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand.  Maybe he thought the only thing he would get is a bunch of milkshakes and eggs thrown at him.  Either way, I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again.



Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:

he's a reporter, were you expecting him to quit his job?

I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him.  If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier.  Either way, it was his decision.  People put themselves into dangerous situations all the time if things go south, well sometimes they do not make it.  

My point is that Mr. Ngo knew the situation.  He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand.  Maybe he thought the only thing he would get is a bunch of milkshakes and eggs thrown at him.  Either way, I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again.

"I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him."

what was she thinking going down that dark alley alone at that time of night wearing a skirt that short? what? she had how many drinks and flirted with that guy? she should have known better

how is this any different to victim blaming women who are victimised after going out to party late at night?

"If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier."

like a soldier? he wasn't wearing fatigues and an m4 man, he had a camera and some gear for photography

so people who disagree with far leftists are no longer allowed to go out in public if they are around?

"He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand."

so reporters in your view shouldn't report on antifa?

"I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again."

well its his job so...

this woman was beaten and sexually assaulted while reporting on events in egypt, what are your views on what happened to her?



o_O.Q said:
Machiavellian said:

Yes, Antifa is violent. Yes their are violent groups so what is your point.  Is your point to show that Antifa is violent or is your agenda to make some connection to all people on the left.  This is pretty much what I see.  This isn't about how violent Antifa is but instead a way to tie it to people who are on the left.  Its no better than someone trying to show how violent the Proud boys are and trying to tie that to all people on the right.  What you are doing is no better.

"Yes their are violent groups so what is your point. "

my point in that post was that leftists trying to excuse the violence of antifa by calling out this man for exposing antifa is highly hypocritical since they are the ones who decry victim blaming, to me it pretty much shows that they don't really believe in the values they claim to stand for

"Is your point to show that Antifa is violent or is your agenda to make some connection to all people on the left."

what have I posted can be interpreted that way?

"Its no better than someone trying to show how violent the Proud boys are and trying to tie that to all people on the right."

what about people calling andy ngo far right and not posting any evidence for that assertion? how does that compare?

Who cares about those people, I am talking about your agenda.  Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter. Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond as long as he can criticize what is happening in someone else garden. This is what appears to be the aim here.  As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right.  Instead their are violent groups on all sides but it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all.



NightlyPoe said:
Machiavellian said:

I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him.  If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier.  Either way, it was his decision.  People put themselves into dangerous situations all the time if things go south, well sometimes they do not make it.  

My point is that Mr. Ngo knew the situation.  He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand.  Maybe he thought the only thing he would get is a bunch of milkshakes and eggs thrown at him.  Either way, I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again.

1.  Saying that he should not have gone is literally saying that terrorism should win.

2.  The police were only feet away and watched it happen.  That should have been the protection he could count on.

3.  If he had brought his own protection, there's little doubt he'd be the one facing criminal charges.  It's backwards, but it's the world we're living in.

I did not say he should or should not have gone, I am saying why would he go into the middle of the group and expect nothing would happen.  Why would anyone place themselves in danger and not have a means of protection.

Have you ever been in a protest with a thousand people in the area.  No, the police isn't going to magically see you all the time or even get there in time.  If anything, by the time they get their its over and the people who were the culprit have all run away.

If you are with multiple people, they can watch your back and stop people from punching you in the face.  If you are their with just your camera man well the only thing he is going to do is film you getting punched in the face.  That camera man sure didn't look like he was interested in helping Mr. Ngo or even trying to get faces of people who were attacking him.  Maybe he didn't want to get noticed and feel some of that mob hate.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 07 July 2019

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Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:

"Yes their are violent groups so what is your point. "

my point in that post was that leftists trying to excuse the violence of antifa by calling out this man for exposing antifa is highly hypocritical since they are the ones who decry victim blaming, to me it pretty much shows that they don't really believe in the values they claim to stand for

"Is your point to show that Antifa is violent or is your agenda to make some connection to all people on the left."

what have I posted can be interpreted that way?

"Its no better than someone trying to show how violent the Proud boys are and trying to tie that to all people on the right."

what about people calling andy ngo far right and not posting any evidence for that assertion? how does that compare?

Who cares about those people, I am talking about your agenda.  Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter. Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond as long as he can criticize what is happening in someone else garden. This is what appears to be the aim here.  As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right.  Instead their are violent groups on all sides but it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all.

"Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter."

what are you basing him being a conservative reporter on?

"Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond"

what makes him a conservative?

"This is what appears to be the aim here."

oh he sustained injuries which caused him to bleed in his brain to criticise the left? lol

why are you denying the leftists who beat him their agency? are they not responsible for their actions? why is everything with you revolving around his(the victim) actions?

" As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right"

the right are capable of evil too, what does that have to do with this man being beaten savagely by far leftists?

"it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all."

based on what?



o_O.Q said:
Machiavellian said:

I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him.  If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier.  Either way, it was his decision.  People put themselves into dangerous situations all the time if things go south, well sometimes they do not make it.  

My point is that Mr. Ngo knew the situation.  He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand.  Maybe he thought the only thing he would get is a bunch of milkshakes and eggs thrown at him.  Either way, I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again.

"I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him."

what was she thinking going down that dark alley alone at that time of night wearing a skirt that short? what? she had how many drinks and flirted with that guy? she should have known better

how is this any different to victim blaming women who are victimised after going out to party late at night?

You are right, what was she thinking.  When people do something stupid we feel for the victim but we also wonder why would they put themselves into the situation in the first place.  What you are doing is trying to say people are not responsible for their decisions just because something bad happen.  How many times have you made a dumb decision and asked yourself, why did I do that, I should have known better.  Does that mean the people that did the bad act should not be punished, No but you as the person who put yourself into a bad situation probably would not do it again would you.

"If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier."

like a soldier? he wasn't wearing fatigues and an m4 man, he had a camera and some gear for photography

so people who disagree with far leftists are no longer allowed to go out in public if they are around?

I guess I should not use slang in a international thread.  Like a soldier means he went into a dangerous situation knowing the risk and did it anyway.  You are trying to make this about left and right, I am making this about Mr Ngo.  I am saying he absolutely  knew there was danger because he tweeted about it.  This isn't about someone walking out in public or some other BS, this is about someone walking into a group of angry violent people who are on the lookout for you and wish you harm.

"He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand."

so reporters in your view shouldn't report on antifa?

No, a reporter probably should report on all violent groups not just Antifa.  If the reporter ignores the other violent groups just because they are on the right and only report on the left then I would consider that reporter to be garbage.

"I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again."

well its his job so...

His job isn't to be stupid.  If he walks into the middle of the group again with no protection or a way to prevent harm and get seriously hurt then he would be the absolute fool.

this woman was beaten and sexually assaulted while reporting on events in egypt, what are your views on what happened to her?

Why would my view change just because she is a woman.  If she went into a dangerous situation and did not make sure to take into consideration her safety then she would be no better than Mr. Ngo.  Just because you are a man or woman reporter, if you are willing to put your life on the line to report something and not prepare for your safety then that makes you a fool if it goes south.  Saying its my job to take risk without making sure I can safely come out of it without harm or taking any precautions doesn't sound smart.  Even soldiers try to make sure to take as little risk as possible why should the expectation be any different for a reporter.



o_O.Q said:
Machiavellian said:

Who cares about those people, I am talking about your agenda.  Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter. Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond as long as he can criticize what is happening in someone else garden. This is what appears to be the aim here.  As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right.  Instead their are violent groups on all sides but it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all.

"Mr. Ngo seem like the typical conservative reporter."

what are you basing him being a conservative reporter on?

"Just as quick to ignore what is happening in his side of the pond"

what makes him a conservative?

His own words, why ask me questions you already know the answer to.

"This is what appears to be the aim here."

oh he sustained injuries which caused him to bleed in his brain to criticise the left? lol

Or he stepped into the middle of a violent group without any precautions expecting to be saved by nuns.

why are you denying the leftists who beat him their agency? are they not responsible for their actions? why is everything with you revolving around his(the victim) actions?

This is the difference with your stance and mine.  I actually do not care about the left or right, I am putting the responsibility on Mr. Ngo.  Your agenda is to bring the whole left equation into the conversation because that is your purpose.  To you it's the unholy left making a victim of Mr. Ngo.  While what I see is a man putting himself into a dangerous situation and it happen.  If every one of the people who attacked Mr. Ngo got jail time, I would also applaud that as well but that still doesn't dismiss Mr. Ngo placing himself into that situation.  You dismiss his actions because you want to make it political.  I am just talking about people making dumb dangerous decisions and not taking precautions.

" As long as you can criticize the left, who cares what happens on the right"

the right are capable of evil too, what does that have to do with this man being beaten savagely by far leftists?

Take my whole paragraph in context not the blurb.  The aim here is to point the finger and make it political.  You say this man was savagely beaten by the left but that isn't correct.  This man was beaten by Antifa and even if just saying that it still wouldn't totally be correct. This man was beat by people associated by Antifa.  Your statement tries to paint everyone on the left beating this man and you want to make it seem as if the left as in everyone performing this act when it was just a few people in this group.  What you are doing isn't knew and its been done so many times it become obvious the slant taken.

"it appears everyone has an agenda to only recognize the other side and not denounce them all."

based on what?

Based on the above.  Since you want to make it about the left instead of making it about Antifa.  You want to associate it with the left instead of associating the acts on the group and the people involved.  Your agenda is to paint the left as Antifa instead of just recognizing this group as violent.



This has devolved into lunacy. Seems like a lot of people here are ok with beating people for wrong think. Can't believe that racist are able to do what they please and be protected by the likes of you because they call themselves antifacist. Hitlers legacy lives on I guess.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
This has devolved into lunacy. Seems like a lot of people here are ok with beating people for wrong think. Can't believe that racist are able to do what they please and be protected by the likes of you because they call themselves antifacist. Hitlers legacy lives on I guess.

No, people are not but I guess that is what you want to hear.  No one said any of the people that hurt Mr. Ngo should not be punished.  Actually the 2 situations are not the same.  People have stated that all these violent groups should be punished and broken up but I am sure you did not care about those comments.  There are a few themes happening within this thread.  First is the making Antifa into the Left.  What we are seeing is that people trying to paint the left as Antifa instead of recognizing them for just another violent group.  The second theme is Mr. Ngo and his decision to go into the middle of a violent group.  This has nothing to do with Mr. Ngo thinking different or any such BS, it has everything to do with him going into the middle of a violent group without taking any precautions.  If his aim was to film getting hurt by Antifa then he got what he was looking for, if not then I have to question a foolish stunt like this.