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Forums - Politics Discussion - "Anti fascists" Severely Beat Journalist

Machiavellian on 09 July 2019
DarthMetalliCube said:
Machiavellian said:

I expect him to be smart.  I expect him not to go into a group of violent people and believe he is safe.  I expect if he was going to go into a group of violent people he would either be fast, evasive, can kick some ass or have a pose with him.  If none of the above, then you have to ask yourself was he foolish, believed nothing would happen or knew what he was getting into and went in their like a soldier.  Either way, it was his decision.  People put themselves into dangerous situations all the time if things go south, well sometimes they do not make it.  

My point is that Mr. Ngo knew the situation.  He knew they were on the lookout for him, he knew through the things he has done previously that the group were definitely not going to shake his hand.  Maybe he thought the only thing he would get is a bunch of milkshakes and eggs thrown at him.  Either way, I wonder for the next protest like this will he go into the middle of the group again.

Bullshit. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want to excuse these scum, but these animals were absolutely in the wrong. Ngo is a reporter (for a website that, per their own cheif editor, is on record stating they are of a center-left, independent bent, similar to myself). But even if they're far right wing that shouldn't fucking matter in the first place. In what insane world can people defend Fascists (and yes that is exactly what KKKlantifa is) intimidating reporters into silence and violence because they have different political bents??

We shouldn't be asking why a reporter is on the scene doing his job - we should be asking why are there a group of masked domestic terrorists beating on journalists in the first place! and furthermore why did the police stand down and not help this reporter out? And why are a ton of media excusing or even defending it? Frightening times in this country when shit like this is allowed to happen and millions (many of whom are of high influence in society) can somehow excuse/enable this. I've studied history and I see where this leads if this mob mentality of violence/censorship goes unchecked and gets out of hand. Hint: Germany circa the mid 1940s.

But I guess this is what happens when we all divide into mindless tribes and abandon all personal responsibility. That's our country now I guess. It's always "It's not MY fault I'm a despicable human, it's THIS GUY'S fault!" 

Lol, who is excusing Antifa.  See this is the problem with a lot of you in this thread.  Me calling out Mr. Ngo doesn't have anything to do with Antifa in who they are. It's already well established they are a violent group.  It would be like a black man walking into the middle of a KKK clan expecting hugs and kisses. I am saying that Mr. Ngo did not go into the middle of this group of violent people not knowing the situation.  Just because you feel sorry for him doesn't remove the fact he choose to jump in the fire.  It also doesn't matter if he is a reporter because being smart enough to care about your well being means you can continue to do your job. 

So what you are saying in your second paragraph is that reporters are stupid.  We should not be asking the question of why a reporter who has clashed with a violent group, doxx their members and was outed by their leader would walk directly into their group. So somehow, we do not expect Mr. Ngo to be smart enough to understand the danger but instead shocked he got his ass handed to him for doing something dangerous.

Also where are you getting your info that the Police stand down and did not help.  Where did you see any police in any of those videos or do you believe they magically knew what was going on and decided that Mr. Ngo deserve that beating.  You must have woke up yesterday if you believe this hasn't happened throughout America history.  Maybe you should consult that history lesson more because this isn't even close to some incidents in the past.



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CosmicSex on 09 July 2019

LOL.  No one cares that this man got beat up.  In fact, its Karma.  

When are you going to learn that you don't live in a world where people HAVE to continually be provoked by you and take it? Like reality.

He got off easy.  

Let me see... I don't like ISIS.  They are a violent murderous group.  Let me condemn all of them every day, making a living out of doing so and then show up at their doorstep and provoke them because they can't touch me because I'm that fucking stupid.

Oh shit I got my ass kicked and my back broken.   Why didn't they just deal with me and take it.  I'm right after all.  I'm so special I don't have to consider anything but my on emotions!  ME!!!!!

Kick rocks.  You can't trade the moral high ground for common sense and expect to make out okay. 



Machiavellian on 09 July 2019
NightlyPoe said:
RolStoppable said:

I've gone to the beginning of this thread to read your posts again. It's pretty clear that you want to remove the context of Ngo from this Antifa thread. Despite evidence being presented of Ngo having a history of antagonizing Antifa and despite evidence of Ngo knowing that Antifa mentioned him by name prior to the event, you refuse to acknowledge that Ngo himself was a significant contributor to the assault that transpired.

This thread is about Antifa and Ngo, not just Antifa alone.

Are you under the impression that antifa beating up a journalist because he has a history of filming their illegal behavior makes it better?

I've not denied that context.  Assaulting a political enemy so as to silence them with fear is what makes them terrorists.

Not buckling to the terrorism certainly doesn't mean that Ngo is at all a contributor to his own assault though.  It is 100% on antifa.

I believe what he is saying and what I have stated is that Mr. Ngo went into that fire knowing exactly what would happen and was ready to film it.  He wanted that ass beating and he got what he wanted.  Mr. Ngo is playing the game and he took one for the team because did anyone really need more info that Antifa is violent.  

I do not see Mr. Ngo as some innocent reporter getting his butt handed to him.  Instead from what I have researched on this guy, he is another player in the same political narrative we have witness within the US for decades.  If his only aim was to bring Antifa to justice, expose the group for their violent behavior, I would be right behind him but instead his aim is like the person who created this thread, which is to tie the left to Antifa and create a narrative.

So is Antifa 100% at fault, you better believe it but Mr. Ngo isn't some innocent reporter out their filming violent events.  He is a political player and he is making his rounds on internet and media sites building that narrative of the violent left.



Machiavellian on 09 July 2019
Immersiveunreality said:
tsogud said:

Lmao you really think they're just gonna put "we're misogynistic white nationalists!" on their OWN website do you?? That'd be pretty naive of you.

Lol i doubt they will get many white nationalists on their side when they clearly present Anti-Racism as a value,it could also be a problem that a good amount of them are non whites.

Do you have an opinion of them and what information did you follow to come to that conclusion?

"venerating the housewife" lol

Lol, anti racism could mean anything once you take the bullet point out and put in context.  Anti racism could mean to them against White people only.  A bullet point means nothing without the descriptions because each one of those points can be detailed a certain way. 



DrDoomz on 09 July 2019

“He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself; and if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you.” -Nietzche

It didn't take long for those who claim to fight fascism to become fascists themselves.



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Immersiveunreality on 09 July 2019
CosmicSex said:

LOL.  No one cares that this man got beat up.  In fact, its Karma.  

When are you going to learn that you don't live in a world where people HAVE to continually be provoked by you and take it? Like reality.

He got off easy.  

Let me see... I don't like ISIS.  They are a violent murderous group.  Let me condemn all of them every day, making a living out of doing so and then show up at their doorstep and provoke them because they can't touch me because I'm that fucking stupid.

Oh shit I got my ass kicked and my back broken.   Why didn't they just deal with me and take it.  I'm right after all.  I'm so special I don't have to consider anything but my on emotions!  ME!!!!!

Kick rocks.  You can't trade the moral high ground for common sense and expect to make out okay. 

A lot does seem to care that he got beat up and when seeing this thread you could call that a fact.

Ugh what a sad way of thinking,"he got off easy" 

Bolded:You are aware that this reaction of yours is heavily manipulated by your own emotions about the guy being stupid and that seems to make you less care about him geting hurt,so you going on a satirical rant about Ngo and his emotions comes of as reflecting your own personality.



Immersiveunreality on 09 July 2019
Machiavellian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Lol i doubt they will get many white nationalists on their side when they clearly present Anti-Racism as a value,it could also be a problem that a good amount of them are non whites.

Do you have an opinion of them and what information did you follow to come to that conclusion?

"venerating the housewife" lol

Lol, anti racism could mean anything once you take the bullet point out and put in context.  Anti racism could mean to them against White people only.  A bullet point means nothing without the descriptions because each one of those points can be detailed a certain way. 

It can but it is not in this case.(or most likely not)

This is on the frontpage of their site in big letters:"New members joining worldwide everyday,all races,all religions,gay or straight" I really really do not think this is some kind of sneaky way of atracting racists while not openly promoting them,that is a tiny bit farfetched/grasping.

They will prob have some racists but hard to imagine it is an intentional racist group,not that i like them though i even dislike all that shittalker attitude greatly.



Immersiveunreality on 09 July 2019
RolStoppable said:
Machiavellian said:

I believe what he is saying and what I have stated is that Mr. Ngo went into that fire knowing exactly what would happen and was ready to film it.  He wanted that ass beating and he got what he wanted.  Mr. Ngo is playing the game and he took one for the team because did anyone really need more info that Antifa is violent.  

I do not see Mr. Ngo as some innocent reporter getting his butt handed to him.  Instead from what I have researched on this guy, he is another player in the same political narrative we have witness within the US for decades.  If his only aim was to bring Antifa to justice, expose the group for their violent behavior, I would be right behind him but instead his aim is like the person who created this thread, which is to tie the left to Antifa and create a narrative.

So is Antifa 100% at fault, you better believe it but Mr. Ngo isn't some innocent reporter out their filming violent events.  He is a political player and he is making his rounds on internet and media sites building that narrative of the violent left.

Yup, that's it. Just reading a couple of articles from Ngo makes it already clear where he stands. His article about islam in the UK was a textbook example of islamophobia and his complaint article about how he got fired from a news outlet made it clear how he views facts, namely by cherry-picking what suits the political narrative he wants to push. Of course he portrayed himself as a victim when he got fired, because according to him he was just doing his job as a journalist who brought the truth to light.

All this talk about terrorism makes me wonder why the same isn't applied to the numerous far-right organizations that the United States have. Plus the clash of the far-left and far-right isn't only something that plays out on the streets, it's also about constructing a narrative and spinning information. Just because someone doesn't engage in violence doesn't mean that they aren't encouraging others to enact violence on political enemies. In many ways, the chess players who move the pawns on the board are a bigger threat than the simpletons on the streets.

Gavin McInnes sure got some fuel from this dumb happening.



tsogud on 09 July 2019
o_O.Q said:
tsogud said:

Wow... All I have said is facts and common sense, if you are that blinded by your own bs that you can't even agree on common sense then you have lost the argument entirely and you should be educated.

Your avatar and your posting history says it all tbh. You don't have to lie about your position and hide from it when it's blatantly on display.

You're making another logical fallacy, which is quite common with you, in that you assert I said that you said "right=good." I never said that you said that, what I said was that it was the narrative that you're pushing by your rhetoric. Myself and others have brought up facts about Ngo (that he wasn't just an innocent bystander) and have ALSO condemned Antifa in the same breath but you have continuously tried push for the narrative that Ngo was completely innocent when the facts tell otherwise and then try to imply we're on Antifa's side because we dared to criticize Ngo. Quite hypocritical of you.

And on the last two points of yours, I have already explained my position on that to you. Unlike you I don't like talking in circles so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Maybe if you'd just step out of your polarizing strict "left vs. right" world view bubble you'd realize that what I'm saying holds truth.

Edit: For posterity I should mention his avatar is Trump with the caption "I am growing stronger"

first off let me ask you something, do you consider andy ngo to be a hero for his opposition to antifa? if so why not?

"You don't have to lie about your position and hide from it when it's blatantly on display."

i'm asking you to substantiate your assertion and looking through your post its apparent that you don't have anything with which to do so? so why make the assertion to begin with? are you going to start preaching to me about god next? how would that be any different?

"You're making another logical fallacy, which is quite common with you"

but constantly making assertions with no backing isn't a fallacy i suppose lol

"Myself and others have brought up facts about Ngo"

no one has shown yet that he is either a proud boy or far right despite many here claiming that is the case

"in that you assert I said that you said "right=good." I never said that you said that, what I said was that it was the narrative that you're pushing by your rhetoric."

i'll ask again, can i have some evidence? you claim to deal in facts right? can I have some please?

" Myself and others have brought up facts about Ngo (that he wasn't just an innocent bystander)"

yes by claiming he was either far right or a proud boy... facts?... evidence?

" but you have continuously tried push for the narrative that Ngo was completely innocent when the facts tell otherwise"

to elaborate he is GUILTY by your own admission of exposing assholes who run around splitting peoples' heads open with hunks of metal

"Maybe if you'd just step out of your polarizing strict "left vs. right" world view bubble"
lol at this point i'm not even going to bother repeating myself

"For posterity I should mention his avatar is Trump with the caption "I am growing stronger"

correct, which is relevant how? oh I see is that the evidence that I believe the right to be good? not anything i've posted, not a declaration of my position, but an avatar? lmao

I've decided I'm gonna stop interacting with you, especially on this subject, because

1. You don't know how to argue or at the very least, you have a very childish way of doing it

2. You never have an honest intelligent conversation/debate.

3. You blatantly disregard facts.

4. You pick what you want out of a response or article with absolutely NO regard towards the context, the entire statement or nuance of the situation. (anything can sound good or bad without context)

5. Connects to point 4, when you pick out what you want without context you then ask a question that you twist to push your narrative.

6. You never give a straight answer, it's always a question, and the statements you do give are almost always a non-sequitur.

7. You can't go one post without making a logical fallacy (seriously it's very easy not to) 

All these points make it impossible for anyone to have an honest debate with you. Everything I've said to you regarding Ngo and Antifa is verifiable (I even gave a source). Also I never said he was one of the Proud Boys so idk why you brought that up but par for the course I guess.

You don't have to be afraid of "outing" your own political beliefs for fear of being viewed as biased. Be honest with it like the rest of us and come to the table with your points. Saying you're either left/right-leaning, neutral or unsure on a political subject can't be used against you, only when you're deceptive about it it can because you're not being sincere so no one can have an honest open debate/conversation with you.

Last edited by tsogud - on 09 July 2019

 

o_O.Q on 09 July 2019
tsogud said:
o_O.Q said:

first off let me ask you something, do you consider andy ngo to be a hero for his opposition to antifa? if so why not?

"You don't have to lie about your position and hide from it when it's blatantly on display."

i'm asking you to substantiate your assertion and looking through your post its apparent that you don't have anything with which to do so? so why make the assertion to begin with? are you going to start preaching to me about god next? how would that be any different?

"You're making another logical fallacy, which is quite common with you"

but constantly making assertions with no backing isn't a fallacy i suppose lol

"Myself and others have brought up facts about Ngo"

no one has shown yet that he is either a proud boy or far right despite many here claiming that is the case

"in that you assert I said that you said "right=good." I never said that you said that, what I said was that it was the narrative that you're pushing by your rhetoric."

i'll ask again, can i have some evidence? you claim to deal in facts right? can I have some please?

" Myself and others have brought up facts about Ngo (that he wasn't just an innocent bystander)"

yes by claiming he was either far right or a proud boy... facts?... evidence?

" but you have continuously tried push for the narrative that Ngo was completely innocent when the facts tell otherwise"

to elaborate he is GUILTY by your own admission of exposing assholes who run around splitting peoples' heads open with hunks of metal

"Maybe if you'd just step out of your polarizing strict "left vs. right" world view bubble"
lol at this point i'm not even going to bother repeating myself

"For posterity I should mention his avatar is Trump with the caption "I am growing stronger"

correct, which is relevant how? oh I see is that the evidence that I believe the right to be good? not anything i've posted, not a declaration of my position, but an avatar? lmao

I've decided I'm gonna stop interacting with you, especially on this subject, because

1. You don't know how to argue or at the very least, you have a very childish way of doing it

2. You never have an honest intelligent conversation/debate.

3. You blatantly disregard facts.

4. You pick what you want out of a response or article with absolutely NO regard towards the context, the entire statement or nuance of the situation. (anything can sound good or bad without context)

5. Connects to point 4, when you pick out what you want without context you then ask a question that you twist to push your narrative.

6. You never give a straight answer, it's always a question, and the statements you do give are almost always a non-sequitur.

7. You can't go one post without making a logical fallacy (seriously it's very easy not to) 

All these points make it impossible for anyone to have an honest debate with you. Everything I've said to you regarding Ngo and Antifa is verifiable (I even gave a source). Also I never said he was one of the Proud Boys so idk why you brought that up but par for the course I guess.

You don't have to be afraid of "outing" your own political beliefs for fear of being viewed as biased. Be honest with it like the rest of us and come to the table with your points. Saying you're either left/right-leaning, neutral or unsure on a political subject can't be used against you, only when you're deceptive about it it can because you're not being sincere so no one can have an honest open debate/conversation with you.

so your answer to my request that you actually back any of your assertions with "facts" is to just resort to even more assertions? lmao

to recap i asked you to substantiate:

your claim that i'm pushing the narrative that right = good

and you failed

that ngo was either a proud boy or far right as many here have claimed

and you failed

" I've said to you regarding Ngo and Antifa is verifiable (I even gave a source)"

"Ngo being a far-right sympathizer"

to reiterate, can I have some evidence of this please?

this is like the 20th time I've asked you or someone else who has made a similar assertion

"All these points make it impossible for anyone to have an honest debate with you."

how can you have an honest debate when the basis of your argument is an assertion and looking more and more like a lie?

"Ngo being a far-right sympathizer"

all of the projection in this post is something to behold lmao, you being a scholar of logical fallacies, i'm sure you've heard of projection

"You don't have to be afraid of "outing" your own political beliefs for fear of being viewed as biased."

well that's not the point here, the point here is your assertions about me, for one thing as I've said already posted in this thread my political stance or yours are completely irrelevant when it comes to condemning antifa or at least I would have believed that to be the case before I observed people such as yourself contorting themselves into knots to victim blame this hero

i'll ask once more : what are the right wing politics I adhere to?

"Saying you're either left/right-leaning, neutral or unsure on a political subject can't be used against you"

so here's a question, why did you derail discussion about the unsung hero andy ngo to asserting endlessly that i'm right wing? if it doesn't matter and can't be used as the basis for an attack why bring it up at all?

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 09 July 2019