sundin13 said:
o_O.Q said:
how are offspring produced outside of the sex binary?
"As for intersex individuals, estimates put them around 1.7(ish)%"
where are these numbers coming from?
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The estimate of around 1.7-2% comes from the following study and while imperfect (all data on this subject is), it is used as a best estimate by organizations such as Intersex Human Rights Australia: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/%28SICI%291520-6300%28200003/04%2912%3A2%3C151%3A%3AAID-AJHB1%3E3.0.CO%3B2-F
I also don't believe that the capability to produce viable offspring is fundamental to biological sex, as under that logic, it would follow that those who are infertile are sex-less which doesn't really make much sense. And while the production of gametes is an important sexual characteristic and should be acknowledged as such, it is not the only sexual characteristic as controlled by biology. Again, it is easy to think of things as a binary, but we have to understand that the binary is not comprehensive when speaking about the manifestation of biological sex (at least, we have to understand that if we want to do justice to reality).
Just to rephrase, biological sex refers to the biological aspects of maleness and femaleness. That much should be obvious. As such, this includes things such as the growing of facial hair, which is a biological function related to maleness. This does not mean that if a woman were to have high testosterone levels and produce facial hair, that she would be a man, but it would mean that she would not occupy the same space as a typical female with average testosterone levels. As such, we should move past the binary in order to acknowledge the variation in how biological sex exhibits itself from person to person. This is not a refutation of biological sex, but instead an acknowledgement that simply saying "sperm" is a reductive way of speaking about all of the complicated and numerous ways in which biology manifests sex.
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"I also don't believe that the capability to produce viable offspring is fundamental to biological sex, as under that logic, it would follow that those who are infertile are sex-less which doesn't really make much sense. "
or you could just do what biologist do and acknowledge that exceptions to categories exist
why do you seem to be incapable of understanding that no biologist has ever argued that biological categories are perfect and encapsulate every single permutation?
besides that how many people are born infertile?
"And while the production of gametes is an important sexual characteristic and should be acknowledged as such, it is not the only sexual characteristic as controlled by biology."
well the development of breasts/ wider hips etc etc etc in women
and testes in men which are all except for other minor differences the main source of sexual differences in men and women all occur for one purpose can you guess what that purpose might be?
"it is used as a best estimate by organizations such as Intersex Human Rights Australia"
how have they gathered these numbers?
"Again, it is easy to think of things as a binary, but we have to understand that the binary is not comprehensive when speaking about the manifestation of biological sex (at least, we have to understand that if we want to do justice to reality)."
and you think doing justice to reality means taking chromosonal disroders that typically result in conditions such as down syndrome and regarding them as part of a spectrum
with regards to hormones as i've said you could take a woman and pump her full of testosterone for the rest of her life and she'd never be able to impregnate another woman and obviously a man would never be able to grow ovaries
you can't even tell me how you would differentiate between a man and a women under this idiotic ideology(or at least i'd have to assume so since you couldn't answer my question) and you're trying to tell me about reality
"This does not mean that if a woman were to have high testosterone levels and produce facial hair, that she would be a man"
how many women are capable of growing facial hair in the way that men do? 1 in 10000 or so? so why are you bringing this up?
"As such, we should move past the binary in order to acknowledge the variation in how biological sex exhibits itself from person to person."
this is dishonest, what you are actually referring to is less than 1% of the population and if you were consistent you would also be pushing to do the same with people who have no legs, have more or less than the normal amount of fingers and toes, have tails, more or less than the normal amount of limbs etc etc etc but for some reason this conversation only ever revolves around sex and gender
Last edited by o_O.Q - on 01 June 2019