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Forums - PC Discussion - Star Citizen. Finally someone calls a spade a spade. Scam.

 

Star citizen

Crowd funding disaster 23 43.40%
 
Crowd funding success 13 24.53%
 
There is still hope 8 15.09%
 
I have no dog in this fight 9 16.98%
 
Total:53

Just finished the Forbes' article. Pretty interesting read. Seems Robert's has been a scam artist ever since he stopped making Wing Commander games. Used some of MS's money that was for a game studio to help fund his shitty Wing Commander film. Was using the same Germany tax loopholes that Uwe Boll was using to keep his movie making business going, until they fixed the loopholes and charged several people with tax fraud. And now is practicing nepotism, giving his family members high paying jobs, that he refuses to disclose how much they all make. Seems last year he bought a ~$5M home.



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zero129 said:
Faelco said:

No Man's Sky was not developed by 500 people, in 8 years, with more than 200M of budget. Don't compare apples and oranges.

Even GoW4 and TLOU2 are less expensive, faster and surely with smaller team than that. But the difference is, they have results to show, not just promises. 

And those games didn't ask for thousands of dollars to fans in exchange for those promises. "Please buy this pretty picture of our new ship, only 3000 dollars, otherwise the game won't be complete, poor us :( We're counting on you!".

But hey, if the creator of the game can buy a new house costing several million dollars and give a cosy and well paid job to all his friends and family, that's proof that the project is in the right hands. 

So the has been no results on SC?.... wow i guess them what i been playing for the last while for my 10 euro investment has been nothing...

And, what are you playing? 

One of the biggest game ever, with huge budget, teams and development time? 

Or just another normal indie like game, closer to Elite Dangerous or other games like that? 

"I've playing something". Just "something" is nothing if it cost 200M dollars, 8 years and 500 people to do it. With this, it should already be one of the most amazing and most polished games ever. Not just a partial alpha version.

A game like The Witcher 3 cost less than 50M dollars, on 3 and a half year, with less than 250 employees. SC numbers are on a completely different level, and so far the result seem to be on another level too, but not in the same way... 

Last edited by Faelco - on 07 May 2019

Faelco said:
zero129 said:

So the has been no results on SC?.... wow i guess them what i been playing for the last while for my 10 euro investment has been nothing...

And, what are you playing? 

One of the biggest game ever, with huge budget, teams and development time? 

Or just another normal indie like game, closer to Elite Dangerous or other games like that? 

"I've playing something". Just "something" is nothing if it cost 200M dollars, 8 years and 500 people to do it. With this, it should already be one of the most amazing and most polished games ever. Not just a partial alpha version.

A game like The Witcher 3 cost less than 50M dollars, on 3 and a half year, with less than 250 employees. SC numbers are on a completely different level, and so far the result seem to be on another level too, but not in the same way... 

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.



Megiddo said:
Did they ever release that single player campaign offshoot thing? That's what I was actually interested in.

unfortunately not yet... Waiting for that too :)
release date is sometime in 2020



Safiir said:
Faelco said:

And, what are you playing? 

One of the biggest game ever, with huge budget, teams and development time? 

Or just another normal indie like game, closer to Elite Dangerous or other games like that? 

"I've playing something". Just "something" is nothing if it cost 200M dollars, 8 years and 500 people to do it. With this, it should already be one of the most amazing and most polished games ever. Not just a partial alpha version.

A game like The Witcher 3 cost less than 50M dollars, on 3 and a half year, with less than 250 employees. SC numbers are on a completely different level, and so far the result seem to be on another level too, but not in the same way... 

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.

I already said that it's not a scam, but incompetence.

And yes, you can't just compare budgets, but you can compare polishing and production values. Undertale is far from the production values of The Witcher. I don't think that right now, the production value of SC is higher than TW3. 



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Not sure where they get scam from? The game has been going through fazes throught out the years and offers updates all the time. Sure its delayed beyond reason however whats the rush? They are aiming to make the best thing ever and they will continue to do so until the game is ready.
This game is in another league when it comes to sheer size. 1 planet alone is bigger than mulitple RPG games combined and 1 planet in SC is a spec in the sand.



Faelco said:
Safiir said:

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.

I already said that it's not a scam, but incompetence.

And yes, you can't just compare budgets, but you can compare polishing and production values. Undertale is far from the production values of The Witcher. I don't think that right now, the production value of SC is higher than TW3. 

Well, right now SC is not even halfway completed. Even right now though you can do things in SC that you can't in any other game. The physics engine is a marvel and that's the main point of a space sim. Again they are surely waaay too inefficient and have lost tons of time with changing engines and completely reworking major features in the game. And that is some thing an experienced developer should not have allowed to happen. But there's a reason why noone has done anything like it before. It truly is a ton of work and it simply takes a lot of time.



Safiir said:
Faelco said:

And, what are you playing? 

One of the biggest game ever, with huge budget, teams and development time? 

Or just another normal indie like game, closer to Elite Dangerous or other games like that? 

"I've playing something". Just "something" is nothing if it cost 200M dollars, 8 years and 500 people to do it. With this, it should already be one of the most amazing and most polished games ever. Not just a partial alpha version.

A game like The Witcher 3 cost less than 50M dollars, on 3 and a half year, with less than 250 employees. SC numbers are on a completely different level, and so far the result seem to be on another level too, but not in the same way... 

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.

Maybe not 100 times better to some, but it is 100 times the scale. 

Ultr said: 
Megiddo said: 
Did they ever release that single player campaign offshoot thing? That's what I was actually interested in.

unfortunately not yet... Waiting for that too :)
release date is sometime in 2020

No, no. That's when the alpha releases. I'm sensing a pattern. 



Safiir said:
Faelco said:

I already said that it's not a scam, but incompetence.

And yes, you can't just compare budgets, but you can compare polishing and production values. Undertale is far from the production values of The Witcher. I don't think that right now, the production value of SC is higher than TW3. 

Well, right now SC is not even halfway completed. Even right now though you can do things in SC that you can't in any other game. The physics engine is a marvel and that's the main point of a space sim. Again they are surely waaay too inefficient and have lost tons of time with changing engines and completely reworking major features in the game. And that is some thing an experienced developer should not have allowed to happen. But there's a reason why noone has done anything like it before. It truly is a ton of work and it simply takes a lot of time.

Not even halfway completed... So, it should take around 15 years and 400-500 millions in total to finish the game?

Of course no one would ever finance something like this. It would need to be one of the most successful games in history to break even, and it surely won't be. The only way such a fantasy (yeah, developer fantasy, not business project) can be done is because of naive players who paid thousands of dollars for that. It's sad, honestly.

It's just a textbook example of mismanagement, and why you need people with a little business sense in a company. Creative people are usually terrible when money is involved.

Elon Musk has a bit of the same issues with Tesla, he decided to organize the factories his own way instead of following the usual methodologies, and the results are terrible, but it just makes him want to do it his way even more. You have people who are specialist in management (factory, development...), there is a reason for that.



thismeintiel said:
Safiir said:

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.

Maybe not 100 times better to some, but it is 100 times the scale. 

What's currently released in SC is incomparable in scale to the witcher. Even the ArcCorp planet alone is humongous. Granted it is mostly procedurally generated but with such detail that, again, you can't find anywhere else. Compare no man's sky's or elite dangerous' planets with SC and you'll see why it takes so long.