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Forums - General Discussion - GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever. D&D can burn in the seven hells.

 

I'm...

Hyped. 24 55.81%
 
Mildly interested. 11 25.58%
 
Not bothered. 5 11.63%
 
/indifferent/not watched/other in comments. 3 6.98%
 
Total:43

Eh. It’s just not very clever anymore. It’s very disappointing.

I actually liked the first half or whatever, had a bit of the same feel as the second episode, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, which I thought was good. Basically it all fell apart as soon as Daenerys was ambushed and they shot the dragon. Killing Raegal off like this was a complete waste, and again way too fast and easy. The whole thing is just unrealistic and not believable and had no point; Viserion’s death by the Night King last season actually helped the plot and was clever. This was just shock value, in a bad way. Balistas firing three kill shots perfectly from a kilometer away at a moving, living target, from aboard a moving platform, with a weapon known for not shooting straight. Then, they insta-reload, twice. Nevermind that Euron’s fleet should’ve been seen coming long before.

People already talked about how the strategy made little sense, that characters are teleporting around and that there are cut and pacing issues. Again I’d question the execution of the scene but at least killing Missandei could prove to be necessary for setting up the final confrontation. Kind of excuses Grey Worm surviving last episode. Then there’s loads of minor stuff all around.

It’s sad that this final season has dropped the ball like this with it’s story. Condencing the final two seasons into fewer episodes has not payed off at all, even though season 7 was still great overall. It’s even sadder that I know I actually could’ve come up with a better ending to this story than what we’re getting. Every fan theory, you know like Bran being the Night King and whatnot, was more clever than what we’re getting.

And a coffee cup left in a shot? Really? Two years of filming and editing and no one noticed this? It’s even front and center at one point. That just makes it feel like they didn’t care anymore, or were just joking around, which is disrespectful. Talking about the crew here, the actors are still trying their best.

Last edited by S.Peelman - on 06 May 2019

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A bit late but yeah, last nights episode was meh overall. Pretty much this whole season has been that way, lots of pointless banter between the cast.



Marth said:
S.Peelman said:

Eh. It’s just not very clever anymore. It’s very disappointing.

I actually liked the first half or whatever, had a bit of the same feel as the second episode, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, which I thought was good. Basically it all fell apart as soon as Daenerys was ambushed and the shot the dragon. Killing Raegal off like this was a complete waste, and again way too easy. The whole thing is just unrealistic and not believable and had no point; Viserion’s death by the Night King last season actually helped the plot and was clever. This was just shock value, in a bad way. People already talked about how the strategy made little sense, that characters are teleporting around and that there are cut and pacing issues. Again I’d question the execution of the scene but at least killing Missandei could prove to be necessary for setting up the final confrontation. Kind of excuses Grey Worm surviving last episode. Then there’s loads of minor stuff all around.

It’s sad that this final season has dropped the ball like this with it’s story. Condencing the final two seasons into fewer episodes has not payed off at all, even though season 7 was still great overall. It’s even sadder that I know I actually could’ve come up with a better ending to this story than what we’re getting. Every fan theory, you know like Bran being the Night King and whatnot, was more clever than what we’re getting.

And a coffee cup left in a shot? Really? Two years of filming and editing and no one noticed this? It’s even front and center at one point. That just makes it feel like they didn’t care anymore, or were just joking around, which is disrespectful. Talking about the crew here, the actors are still trying their best.

Maybe Starbucks paid a lot of money for that cup to be left in :D

I do think Starbucks is happy about this because everyone is talking about it, lol. 



I'm not exactly sure what they expect Danearys to do? The whole point of her going over there with her fleet was to get the Iron Throne. And now that's being taken as being "mad"? So, should she just go "Oh, well, I guess not" and head back to Essos? Tyrion advises her not to attack King's Landing, yet no alternative is offered on how to defeat Cersei. Um, ok, were they suggesting surrender? Giving up? Their "starving the city" plan depended on their capacity to stop food from getting into the city by the sea by the Iron Fleet. They took a huge loss on that front, so that plan is essentially out. What option is left?

I'm not even really a fan of Danaerys, but I don't understand the point of building up her character just to have her end up the crazy one. I guess seeing how quickly they got rid of "winter", I shouldn't be surprised though. At this point, I don't want any of the expected characters to end up on the throne. Not Jon, not any of the Starks, not Cersei. I hope they surprise us and have it be someone we don't expect. I've always thought Sam and Gilly ending up on the throne would be the perfect FU to fans.



John2290 said:
Rêveur said:
I'm not exactly sure what they expect Danearys to do? The whole point of her going over there with her fleet was to get the Iron Throne. And now that's being taken as being "mad"? So, should she just go "Oh, well, I guess not" and head back to Essos? Tyrion advises her not to attack King's Landing, yet no alternative is offered on how to defeat Cersei. Um, ok, were they suggesting surrender? Giving up? Their "starving the city" plan depended on their capacity to stop food from getting into the city by the sea by the Iron Fleet. They took a huge loss on that front, so that plan is essentially out. What option is left?

I'm not even really a fan of Danaerys, but I don't understand the point of building up her character just to have her end up the crazy one. I guess seeing how quickly they got rid of "winter", I shouldn't be surprised though. At this point, I don't want any of the expected characters to end up on the throne. Not Jon, not any of the Starks, not Cersei. I hope they surprise us and have it be someone we don't expect. I've always thought Sam and Gilly ending up on the throne would be the perfect FU to fans.

Bran is faking his emo ravenness so he can manipulate everyone into killing each other so he can sit on the throne. I hate saying this but there is still hope that it all won't be fan service. 

Don't overestimate the quality of writing we're talking about.



 

 

 

 

 

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haxxiy said:
John2290 said:

Bran is faking his emo ravenness so he can manipulate everyone into killing each other so he can sit on the throne. I hate saying this but there is still hope that it all won't be fan service. 

Don't overestimate the quality of writing we're talking about.

Link please. I need to hear the context for that xD



NightlyPoe said:
sundin13 said:

I don't know, like last episode Dany made it pretty darn clear that her idea on how to settle this conflict is to kill thousands of innocent people and destroy King's Landing (which at this point, seems to be a fairly likely result next episode). After being reminded that she is planning to kill the people she came here to save she says something to the effect of "I will sit on the throne by any means necessary".

I feel like that is a pretty hard turn into "not a good person"-land. Yes, she has shown signs of cruelty in the past and that is why I am kind of on the fence about this. She has been brutal to her enemies, but it was always in service of a greater justice. I feel like they rushed too quickly through those middle points where she starts crossing further into the grey and just went from her dipping her toes into the water of "This seems kind of iffy" to "Lets just kill the innocents!". To me, she seems like she is undergoing a complete psychological collapse extremely quickly and in my opinion, without sufficient cause.

It just feels convenient which echoes a lot of other things that have happened this season.

Out of curiosity, what's the other option?  Just leave Cersei be as long as she's got useful idiots to use as hostages?  Granted, there's a good chance Arya feeds her Euron some morning before slitting her throat, but as far as Dany goes, she only knows military options.  Cersei could sit behind her walls forever, conspiring to keep Dany from power and using her army to deliver military defeats since Dany apparently forgot to employ a tactician.  Not to mention the hardships Cersei would employ to make Dany look bad and just to deliver punishment to the world for her pain.

Tyrion's alternative of starving them out (which, I'd point out, would still cause suffering), presumably is built around being able to maintain a blockade.  Hard to see how they have the ability to do that with the dragons neutralized and an obviously inferior navy.  And if a city is being constantly re-supplied, a siege is just a bunch of armed dudes impotently sitting outside the gates.

Fact is, Dany is in a corner.  She had the luxury at the beginning of last season to play a game with Cersei.  She lost.  Then she lost most of her army up north.  Luckily, some of the magical army re-spawned, but they specifically said that they are only at parity with Cersei now.  And that was before she lost another dragon, what's left of her navy, and whoever drowned or died.

Like it or not, sacking King's Landing is the only viable option left at this point, and even that's problematic to pull off.  The other option is to give up and leave the realm to the tender mercies of Cersei.

Well, I personally think that the writers wrote themselves into a corner. We need to remember that this is fiction and the story didn't have to be here. Part of being a good writer is setting up situations which allow your characters to act. I personally think that a lot of very poor decisions were made over the last few episodes writing-wise which created this situation.

That said, the key here is similar to the Night King. If you cut of the head, the body too will fall. As such, I would have liked to see a small infiltration type siege used in tandem with the overall siege. Use a small team of people (possibly headed by Arya and maybe utilizing Varys' information gathering skills) to enter the castle then use that to a) destroy the big crossbows; and b) inform Euron that the baby isn't his. Once the crossbows are taken out, the true siege can actually begin with the element of surprise throwing off Cersei's forces. In the confusion, the infiltration team could get closer to Cersei, eventually killing her. Then, use Arya to replace her in order to bring everything to a peaceful conclusion.

At the very least, entertain an idea more sophisticated than "Hulk smash".



John2290 said:
sundin13 said:

Link please. I need to hear the context for that xD

It's so much worse in context. Either they are doing this to set up a new show or they are incompetent. These two are supposed to do a Star wars old republic trilogy? Yeah, they'll be eaten alive and made laughing stocks, if they somehow survive this shit show.  

That's what I said back when the Disney deal was announced: "Those guys are completely incompetent, it will be a disaster". IIRC quite a lot of people defended them. Nice to see that this last season proves to everyone how bad they are.

I mean, their writing has been terrible since several seasons already, but it wasn't obvious enough apparently. 



NightlyPoe said:
sundin13 said:

I don't know, like last episode Dany made it pretty darn clear that her idea on how to settle this conflict is to kill thousands of innocent people and destroy King's Landing (which at this point, seems to be a fairly likely result next episode). After being reminded that she is planning to kill the people she came here to save she says something to the effect of "I will sit on the throne by any means necessary".

I feel like that is a pretty hard turn into "not a good person"-land. Yes, she has shown signs of cruelty in the past and that is why I am kind of on the fence about this. She has been brutal to her enemies, but it was always in service of a greater justice. I feel like they rushed too quickly through those middle points where she starts crossing further into the grey and just went from her dipping her toes into the water of "This seems kind of iffy" to "Lets just kill the innocents!". To me, she seems like she is undergoing a complete psychological collapse extremely quickly and in my opinion, without sufficient cause.

It just feels convenient which echoes a lot of other things that have happened this season.

Out of curiosity, what's the other option?  Just leave Cersei be as long as she's got useful idiots to use as hostages?  Granted, there's a good chance Arya feeds her Euron some morning before slitting her throat, but as far as Dany goes, she only knows military options.  Cersei could sit behind her walls forever, conspiring to keep Dany from power and using her army to deliver military defeats since Dany apparently forgot to employ a tactician.  Not to mention the hardships Cersei would employ to make Dany look bad and just to deliver punishment to the world for her pain.

Tyrion's alternative of starving them out (which, I'd point out, would still cause suffering), presumably is built around being able to maintain a blockade.  Hard to see how they have the ability to do that with the dragons neutralized and an obviously inferior navy.  And if a city is being constantly re-supplied, a siege is just a bunch of armed dudes impotently sitting outside the gates.

Fact is, Dany is in a corner.  She had the luxury at the beginning of last season to play a game with Cersei.  She lost.  Then she lost most of her army up north.  Luckily, some of the magical army re-spawned, but they specifically said that they are only at parity with Cersei now.  And that was before she lost another dragon, what's left of her navy, and whoever drowned or died.

Like it or not, sacking King's Landing is the only viable option left at this point, and even that's problematic to pull off.  The other option is to give up and leave the realm to the tender mercies of Cersei.

That said, something else will turn up.

"I haven't bothered to actually follow the story threads, so I'm just gonna predict whatever happens they've pulled out their ass and it's bad writing."

The most obvious scenario is that Jaimie will sneak into King's Landing and take Cersei out himself, as per their prophecy. He also feels the weight of all the time he spent supporting her actions, and that he has to be the one to end her reign of cruelty.
There's also the fact that he's the 'Kingslayer', bringing his story full circle to how he betrayed his oath to save the lives of everyone in King's landing the Mad King wanted to burn, just like Cersei now wants to get thousands of innocents massacred in King's Landing, and he'll betray the person he's been closest to all his life to stop it.

Once the head of the snake is cut off, handling the rest shouldn't be too hard.
As far as Euron, either Dany will burn all their fleets herself, or Yara who they've mentioned retook the Iron Islands will come to their aid. Or maybe Euron in the face of imminent defeat decides to pledge to Dany instead, as he's mentioned several times he has no real allegience to anyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dany just takes over everything from Cersei, including most her armies, as she pretty much has the same motivations that Cersei has by now, and she's already begun trying to shore up her future forces to defend her from any challengers to the throne, namely Jon Snow (the scene where she makes Gendry Lord of Storm's End and Sansa gives her a gloomy look).

There's a good chance I'm wrong on all of that though, but I won't just assume it's bad writing. The thing I'm really hoping for next week anyway is Cleganebowl.



NightlyPoe said:
Shaunodon said:

"I haven't bothered to actually follow the story threads, so I'm just gonna predict whatever happens they've pulled out their ass and it's bad writing."

You might want to re-read my last few posts.  As it is, I think I'm out on a limb giving the writers credit for how they're portraying Daenerys.

I don't think you understand the discussion.  We were discussing the options Dany has in front of her and whether preparing to sack King's Landing is now something she might need to consider without being a dark evil tyrant bad guy.  Obviously, hoping that Jaime will leave the bed of his new lover in order to come down and personally drag Cersei out of the capital is hardly a viable strategy from where she's standing.

For what it's worth, I don't think giving Daenerys an easy way out is necessarily good writing even if it does tie in some other thread.

Well you must not have been paying attention to the last episode, because they made it pretty clear she's lost all objectivity on being good or evil. Her view now is that whatever it takes to get on the Iron Throne is justified, as it's her right:

"Do you believe we're here for a reason, Lord Varys? I'm here to free the world from tyrants. That is my destiny, and I will serve it no matter the cost." -Daenerys

"I served tyrants most of my life. They all talk about destiny." -Varys


And who said they'd be giving her an easy way out? She may avoid having to massacre thousands of innocents, but the sooner she gets to the throne the sooner she just becomes the next despot/Cersei, paranoid someone better suited (Jon) for the role is about to take it from her, as they've already shown the beginnings of.