Forums - Movies Discussion - "Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker" Trailer

Shadow1980 said:

chakkra said:

Ohh no, we're not gonna leave it at that!

So you liked the movie? fine. So you think it got undeserved hate? Cool. To each its own I guess.

But trying to say that it was just a "vocal minority" who didn't like this movie is...  just...  no.

I say "vocal minority" because the most strident of the criticism clearly did not result in the movie being a financial disappointment. The people who vehemently despise TLJ to the point of melodrama clearly aren't the majority, but they sure are vocal.

To me, there's constructive criticism and then there's the farcical, histrionic "RUINED FOREVER!" bullshit. There's a difference between saying "Eh, I didn't really care for it" and engaging in what is now a 16 month long rage fit over a successful, critically-acclaimed movie, as if its very existence is the ruination of everything good and decent in the world.

Want to argue over technical quibbles, such as the feasibility and economics of hyperdrive-powered kinetic kill vehicles vis a vis the "Holdo Maneuver"? Fine by me.

Want to argue about the film's pacing? Go right ahead.

Want to argue about the overall visual composition of the scene where Leia uses the Force to return to the Raddus? By all means.

Hell, even I thought it wasn't perfect. I was annoyed by yet another instance of a fictional character in an emergency situation sitting on their butt for a minute before getting their shit in gear. Dammit, Holdo! Hop your ass in the driver's seat and do something now! Not tomorrow! Only annoying part of what was otherwise some of the best minutes of the film. That "deer in headlights" stuff bugs me, and I see it in way too many movies and TV shows, even ones that are otherwise really good. But I don't let minor issues detract from my enjoyment of the movie. Whether professional or amateur, review scores are supposed to be a sliding scale, not a black or white "It's perfect!" or "Worst movie ever!" scenario.

I'm all for legitimate film criticism, and some of it does exist. But the vocal minority has not engaged in that. They've engaged in a bunch of tiresome "Shit sux! Worst movie evar! Cinematic atrocity! STAR WARS IS RUINED FOREVER! Fuck Rian Johnson to hell forever!" prattle. That's what I have a problem with. There's the people who think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy destroyed their childhoods and that they should be fired (or worse); the people who have made all sorts of nasty, hateful, and sometimes even threatening comments towards Johnson and Kennedy on social media; the people who treat a movie as a quasi-religious experience instead of a fun way to spend 2-3 hours, and act as if TLJ was an affront to their god; the people who have turned their dislike of a movie into an unhealthy obsession, making a full-time job out of making literally dozens of feature-length YouTube videos about how much they despise The Last Jedi, or petitioning to have TLJ stricken from canon, or trying to crowdfund a remake of TLJ (and then there was the one guy who wrote a ridiculous manifesto demanding a metaphorical call to arms); the political hacks who claim that TLJ was simply an overt piece of feminist/SJW propaganda; the people who don't have anything better to do with their time than review bomb movies, as if TLJ, a movie nearly universally praised by professional critics, was somehow deserving of numerous zero-star reviews (it wouldn't surprise me if there was significant overlap between them and other groups of review bombers, like the ones that hit Captain Marvel earlier this year); the people who think that the film was poorly written and directed simply because they didn't like how certain characters were portrayed, or because they feel their headcanon wasn't respected, or because they're so goddamn paranoid that they think the producers have some nefarious political agenda, or because of some other asinine reason; the people who can't even accept that a lot of people really like TLJ, and feel the need to dogpile on anyone expressing appreciation of or trying to defend the movie ("Your opinion is shit, and here's a two-hour YouTube video explaining why").

That is undeserved hate from a vocal minority.

Their dislike of the film has nothing to do with the overall technical or artistic merits of the film, but rather purely because of how they regard the object of their fandom. They have this idea built up in their head about what Star Wars is, how its characters and other aspects are supposed to be portrayed, etc., then when a new movie comes out and the director's/writer's vision doesn't comport with theirs, they not only call foul but also react in ways that are often simply beyond the pale. Some people cannot be pleased and are seemingly looking for an excuse to complain. Some hate a thing because it's not just like the original film/series/game and/or made by the original creator (some fans have hated everything done since Disney took over the franchise, not just TLJ). Some hate a thing because it doesn't respect their headcanon. Some have ideological axes to grind. Regardless of their motivations, they're not worth arguing with anymore. They've done nothing but remind me how toxic certain segments of a fandom can be, especially Star Wars fandom. The Last Jedi (and Disney-era Star Wars more broadly) doesn't need defending from them, because as far as I'm concerned their arguments have no merit. Arguing with them is like arguing with a brick wall or a flat-earther: it's a pointless, fruitless waste of time.

That's why I've glossed over a large portion of the comments in this very thread. I had a feeling the hate comments were coming, but I wanted to share a cool trailer for a movie I'm excited for and I'm sure others are excited for. But I had no interest in engaging with the haters because I'm tired of listening to the bullshit. Star Wars survived the 187 other times it was "RUINED FOREVER!": Ewoks, Greedo firing at Han, bad CGI Jabba in ANH special edition (and bad/overused CGI in general in the prequels and Special Editions), "Jedi Rocks," midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, "I hate sand," the "Anakin becomes Vader" scene, "She has lost the will to live," "NOOOOOOOO!", the wooden acting in the prequels, "Hayden Christensen Force ghost," "The expanded universe isn't canon anymore!" etc., etc. It will survive The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker (which those same impossible-to-please fans are already pre-emptively dismissing out of hand based on a subtitle and two minutes of footage, probably because they're still stewing over TLJ).

Some people just need to get some perspective. I understand being passionate about something, but there are limits. Something's wrong when people have spent this much time being this bent out of shape over a movie. A movie that was by any objective standard a good movie, hence the 91% Certified Fresh and 85 Meta scores. I go to the movie theater to have a good time. I've had a good time with every one of the new Disney-era Star Wars movies. All the hate just harshes my mellow, and it pisses me off that some people want something I and many millions of others enjoy to fail.

I suppose I fall somewhere in your category of hatedom. 

Do I think it was a really bad movie? Yes.
Do I think it "ruined my childhood"? No. I still have those memories and excitement.

But do I think it ruined the franchise? For me, for now, yes. But only because Luke was my childhood idol. He was the epitome of good and who I always wanted to "play as" as a kid. So the way they threw his character a way and turned him into what he turned into...it has an effect on the character from the previous movies. I can't watch the original trilogy and think about how great he is anymore because he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep. Then he became a coward and hid for decades while everyone around him suffered. 

I've said many times that I'm fine with it if others still enjoy it. I don't want my disdain ruin others' enjoyment. But, to me, the whole thing is ruined. Maybe they can retcon it somehow, but I really don't know how unless it was all a dream.

Hope you enjoy episode 9, though.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

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Shadow1980 said:
chakkra said:

Ohh no, we're not gonna leave it at that!

So you liked the movie? fine. So you think it got undeserved hate? Cool. To each its own I guess.

But trying to say that it was just a "vocal minority" who didn't like this movie is...  just...  no.

I say "vocal minority" because the most strident of the criticism clearly did not result in the movie being a financial disappointment. The people who vehemently despise TLJ to the point of melodrama clearly aren't the majority, but they sure are vocal.

To me, there's constructive criticism and then there's the farcical, histrionic "RUINED FOREVER!" bullshit.

Does criticism needs to be intelligent, though, when praise most often isn't?

Food for thought, here.



 

 

 

 

 

Shadow1980 said:

chakkra said:

Ohh no, we're not gonna leave it at that!

So you liked the movie? fine. So you think it got undeserved hate? Cool. To each its own I guess.

But trying to say that it was just a "vocal minority" who didn't like this movie is...  just...  no.

I say "vocal minority" because the most strident of the criticism clearly did not result in the movie being a financial disappointment. The people who vehemently despise TLJ to the point of melodrama clearly aren't the majority, but they sure are vocal.

To me, there's constructive criticism and then there's the farcical, histrionic "RUINED FOREVER!" bullshit. There's a difference between saying "Eh, I didn't really care for it" and engaging in what is now a 16 month long rage fit over a successful, critically-acclaimed movie, as if its very existence is the ruination of everything good and decent in the world.

Want to argue over technical quibbles, such as the feasibility and economics of hyperdrive-powered kinetic kill vehicles vis a vis the "Holdo Maneuver"? Fine by me.

Want to argue about the film's pacing? Go right ahead.

Want to argue about the overall visual composition of the scene where Leia uses the Force to return to the Raddus? By all means.

Hell, even I thought it wasn't perfect. I was annoyed by yet another instance of a fictional character in an emergency situation sitting on their butt for a minute before getting their shit in gear. Dammit, Holdo! Hop your ass in the driver's seat and do something now! Not tomorrow! Only annoying part of what was otherwise some of the best minutes of the film. That "deer in headlights" stuff bugs me, and I see it in way too many movies and TV shows, even ones that are otherwise really good. But I don't let minor issues detract from my enjoyment of the movie. Whether professional or amateur, review scores are supposed to be a sliding scale, not a black or white "It's perfect!" or "Worst movie ever!" scenario.

I'm all for legitimate film criticism, and some of it does exist. But the vocal minority has not engaged in that. They've engaged in a bunch of tiresome "Shit sux! Worst movie evar! Cinematic atrocity! STAR WARS IS RUINED FOREVER! Fuck Rian Johnson to hell forever!" prattle. That's what I have a problem with. There's the people who think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy destroyed their childhoods and that they should be fired (or worse); the people who have made all sorts of nasty, hateful, and sometimes even threatening comments towards Johnson and Kennedy on social media; the people who treat a movie as a quasi-religious experience instead of a fun way to spend 2-3 hours, and act as if TLJ was an affront to their god; the people who have turned their dislike of a movie into an unhealthy obsession, making a full-time job out of making literally dozens of feature-length YouTube videos about how much they despise The Last Jedi, or petitioning to have TLJ stricken from canon, or trying to crowdfund a remake of TLJ (and then there was the one guy who wrote a ridiculous manifesto demanding a metaphorical call to arms); the political hacks who claim that TLJ was simply an overt piece of feminist/SJW propaganda; the people who don't have anything better to do with their time than review bomb movies, as if TLJ, a movie nearly universally praised by professional critics, was somehow deserving of numerous zero-star reviews (it wouldn't surprise me if there was significant overlap between them and other groups of review bombers, like the ones that hit Captain Marvel earlier this year); the people who think that the film was poorly written and directed simply because they didn't like how certain characters were portrayed, or because they feel their headcanon wasn't respected, or because they're so goddamn paranoid that they think the producers have some nefarious political agenda, or because of some other asinine reason; the people who can't even accept that a lot of people really like TLJ, and feel the need to dogpile on anyone expressing appreciation of or trying to defend the movie ("Your opinion is shit, and here's a two-hour YouTube video explaining why").

That is undeserved hate from a vocal minority.

Their dislike of the film has nothing to do with the overall technical or artistic merits of the film, but rather purely because of how they regard the object of their fandom. They have this idea built up in their head about what Star Wars is, how its characters and other aspects are supposed to be portrayed, etc., then when a new movie comes out and the director's/writer's vision doesn't comport with theirs, they not only call foul but also react in ways that are often simply beyond the pale. Some people cannot be pleased and are seemingly looking for an excuse to complain. Some hate a thing because it's not just like the original film/series/game and/or made by the original creator (some fans have hated everything done since Disney took over the franchise, not just TLJ). Some hate a thing because it doesn't respect their headcanon. Some have ideological axes to grind. Regardless of their motivations, they're not worth arguing with anymore. They've done nothing but remind me how toxic certain segments of a fandom can be, especially Star Wars fandom. The Last Jedi (and Disney-era Star Wars more broadly) doesn't need defending from them, because as far as I'm concerned their arguments have no merit. Arguing with them is like arguing with a brick wall or a flat-earther: it's a pointless, fruitless waste of time.

That's why I've glossed over a large portion of the comments in this very thread. I had a feeling the hate comments were coming, but I wanted to share a cool trailer for a movie I'm excited for and I'm sure others are excited for. But I had no interest in engaging with the haters because I'm tired of listening to the bullshit. Star Wars survived the 187 other times it was "RUINED FOREVER!": Ewoks, Greedo firing at Han, bad CGI Jabba in ANH special edition (and bad/overused CGI in general in the prequels and Special Editions), "Jedi Rocks," midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, "I hate sand," the "Anakin becomes Vader" scene, "She has lost the will to live," "NOOOOOOOO!", the wooden acting in the prequels, "Hayden Christensen Force ghost," "The expanded universe isn't canon anymore!" etc., etc. It will survive The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker (which those same impossible-to-please fans are already pre-emptively dismissing out of hand based on a subtitle and two minutes of footage, probably because they're still stewing over TLJ).

Some people just need to get some perspective. I understand being passionate about something, but there are limits. Something's wrong when people have spent this much time being this bent out of shape over a movie. A movie that was by any objective standard a good movie, hence the 91% Certified Fresh and 85 Meta scores. I go to the movie theater to have a good time. I've had a good time with every one of the new Disney-era Star Wars movies. All the hate just harshes my mellow, and it pisses me off that some people want something I and many millions of others enjoy to fail.

A big rant generalizing people that dislike a certain aspect of a movie into the haters group and in this same rant you also go nuts on the male characters of the past because ofcourse those that disagree with you just do not like females and you think this is how to get back at them?It is also really ironic that you can talk about badly written male characters and think its a solid argument for why a badly written female character is not badly written,if you stop bringing gender into it then you could also know that all PEOPLE can have badly written characters but no you did see a few posters talking about feminism (and mind you that same opinion is also shared by women)and you decide to project a supposedly "toxic" attitude on people that do not like the character you love. (also the male characters of the past you brought up have been laughed at since the movies released, so making the assumption that those bad written characters were overlooked is also plain wrong.)

Ofcourse some people got undeserved hate but that would be a "vocal minority" of the "vocal minority" and really everywhere you can find those kind of people,those you ignore do not hate but just dislike something about the movie and that is shared by a lot.

Most of the youtubers and commenters i have seen like female characters but just do not like how Rey was written in The last jedi,if you do find she was wellwritten then thats good but dont blame others having an opinion onto blind hate.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 16 April 2019

I know I already said this, but I'm looking forward to The Rise of Skywalker. The Mandalorian looks cool too.



Mr.GameCrazy said:
I know I already said this, but I'm looking forward to The Rise of Skywalker. The Mandalorian looks cool too.

I'm really hoping Rise of Skywalker is good enough that it takes the terrible taste of TLJ out of my mouth and allows me to enjoy the franchise again. Would love to watch some of the shows and the new game.

I hate that there's something inside me still so pissed about TLJ that its just ruining everything for me. Even a feeling of neutrality after ep 9 would be a relief.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

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epicurean said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:
I know I already said this, but I'm looking forward to The Rise of Skywalker. The Mandalorian looks cool too.

I'm really hoping Rise of Skywalker is good enough that it takes the terrible taste of TLJ out of my mouth and allows me to enjoy the franchise again. Would love to watch some of the shows and the new game.

I hate that there's something inside me still so pissed about TLJ that its just ruining everything for me. Even a feeling of neutrality after ep 9 would be a relief.

Im almost certain they will eventually find a way to please most of the corebase audience,there is much money to get from this franchise and Disney will try to treat it well.



forest-spirit said:
KLAMarine said:

Okay, let's make this simple: I wanna see Rey bleed. I wanna see her decapitated similar to how Luke was and Anakin was. Make her opposition more threatening in TFA, I appreciate Snoke getting the better of her in TLJ but in TFA, a lot of what she faces she gets out of a little too easy. Allow Han and Finn and Chewie rescue her from Ren's imprisonment: no mind trick.

Also, please allow Han to handle HIS Millennium Falcon; it's HIS Falcon. No need to have Rey show him up. It's a real shame Rey couldn't get a ship all her own that was distinctly hers, one I could call "Rey's ship and no one else's". Instead, she gets the Falcon which is just about tied to Han permanently.

Dafuq!? Since when do characters need to be freaking dismembered (pretty sure that was what you meant as decapitated means you get your head chopped off)? It's Star Wars, not Snuff Wars. If that's now a requirement then this discussion has gone completely insane.

Well getting your hand chopper off has been Star Wars tradition.

In this trilogy, someone needs to get their hand chopped off for sure.



For me a big problem is that these main trilogy films don’t really feel like they are part of the other six. This trilogy isn’t really going anywhere, I mean, there’s not really a plot. This contrasts the two spin-offs they made. Those feel much better connected to the main series. Especially Rogue One, easily the best of the new movies, is an essential part of the story. I could’ve been “Episode 3”, if the real Episode 3 was Episode 2 and 1 and 2 combined are 1, if that makes sense.

Anyway I do enjoy Episode 7 and 8 themselves for what they are, they just don’t really feel like they are necessary. I am excited for 9, I want to see it, and I hope it’ll rectify some of the feelings I have about the Sequel Trilogy.



I feel like Rey is definitely, 100% a "Mary Sue". It's like she wrote her own fanfiction and made herself the most awesome thing in the universe. The kind of drama I'd write about myself when I was in high school where "Everyone would finally find out he good I really am"--but that's just part of the reason I didn't enjoy Episode VIII.

Mostly it boils down to a poor story, poor pacing, and no payoff. I'll give Ep IX the benefit of the doubt. I think the prequel trilogy ended strong and made me enjoy the first two a bit more. Maybe ROS can do the same. I'll just walk in with realistic expectations.



mZuzek loves to pre-order

Shadow1980 said:

chakkra said:

Ohh no, we're not gonna leave it at that!

So you liked the movie? fine. So you think it got undeserved hate? Cool. To each its own I guess.

But trying to say that it was just a "vocal minority" who didn't like this movie is...  just...  no.

I say "vocal minority" because the most strident of the criticism clearly did not result in the movie being a financial disappointment. The people who vehemently despise TLJ to the point of melodrama clearly aren't the majority, but they sure are vocal.

To me, there's constructive criticism and then there's the farcical, histrionic "RUINED FOREVER!" bullshit. There's a difference between saying "Eh, I didn't really care for it" and engaging in what is now a 16 month long rage fit over a successful, critically-acclaimed movie, as if its very existence is the ruination of everything good and decent in the world.

Want to argue over technical quibbles, such as the feasibility and economics of hyperdrive-powered kinetic kill vehicles vis a vis the "Holdo Maneuver"? Fine by me.

Want to argue about the film's pacing? Go right ahead.

Want to argue about the overall visual composition of the scene where Leia uses the Force to return to the Raddus? By all means.

Hell, even I thought it wasn't perfect. I was annoyed by yet another instance of a fictional character in an emergency situation sitting on their butt for a minute before getting their shit in gear. Dammit, Holdo! Hop your ass in the driver's seat and do something now! Not tomorrow! Only annoying part of what was otherwise some of the best minutes of the film. That "deer in headlights" stuff bugs me, and I see it in way too many movies and TV shows, even ones that are otherwise really good. But I don't let minor issues detract from my enjoyment of the movie. Whether professional or amateur, review scores are supposed to be a sliding scale, not a black or white "It's perfect!" or "Worst movie ever!" scenario.

I'm all for legitimate film criticism, and some of it does exist. But the vocal minority has not engaged in that. They've engaged in a bunch of tiresome "Shit sux! Worst movie evar! Cinematic atrocity! STAR WARS IS RUINED FOREVER! Fuck Rian Johnson to hell forever!" prattle. That's what I have a problem with. There's the people who think Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy destroyed their childhoods and that they should be fired (or worse); the people who have made all sorts of nasty, hateful, and sometimes even threatening comments towards Johnson and Kennedy on social media; the people who treat a movie as a quasi-religious experience instead of a fun way to spend 2-3 hours, and act as if TLJ was an affront to their god; the people who have turned their dislike of a movie into an unhealthy obsession, making a full-time job out of making literally dozens of feature-length YouTube videos about how much they despise The Last Jedi, or petitioning to have TLJ stricken from canon, or trying to crowdfund a remake of TLJ (and then there was the one guy who wrote a ridiculous manifesto demanding a metaphorical call to arms); the political hacks who claim that TLJ was simply an overt piece of feminist/SJW propaganda; the people who don't have anything better to do with their time than review bomb movies, as if TLJ, a movie nearly universally praised by professional critics, was somehow deserving of numerous zero-star reviews (it wouldn't surprise me if there was significant overlap between them and other groups of review bombers, like the ones that hit Captain Marvel earlier this year); the people who think that the film was poorly written and directed simply because they didn't like how certain characters were portrayed, or because they feel their headcanon wasn't respected, or because they're so goddamn paranoid that they think the producers have some nefarious political agenda, or because of some other asinine reason; the people who can't even accept that a lot of people really like TLJ, and feel the need to dogpile on anyone expressing appreciation of or trying to defend the movie ("Your opinion is shit, and here's a two-hour YouTube video explaining why").

That is undeserved hate from a vocal minority.

Their dislike of the film has nothing to do with the overall technical or artistic merits of the film, but rather purely because of how they regard the object of their fandom. They have this idea built up in their head about what Star Wars is, how its characters and other aspects are supposed to be portrayed, etc., then when a new movie comes out and the director's/writer's vision doesn't comport with theirs, they not only call foul but also react in ways that are often simply beyond the pale. Some people cannot be pleased and are seemingly looking for an excuse to complain. Some hate a thing because it's not just like the original film/series/game and/or made by the original creator (some fans have hated everything done since Disney took over the franchise, not just TLJ). Some hate a thing because it doesn't respect their headcanon. Some have ideological axes to grind. Regardless of their motivations, they're not worth arguing with anymore. They've done nothing but remind me how toxic certain segments of a fandom can be, especially Star Wars fandom. The Last Jedi (and Disney-era Star Wars more broadly) doesn't need defending from them, because as far as I'm concerned their arguments have no merit. Arguing with them is like arguing with a brick wall or a flat-earther: it's a pointless, fruitless waste of time.

That's why I've glossed over a large portion of the comments in this very thread. I had a feeling the hate comments were coming, but I wanted to share a cool trailer for a movie I'm excited for and I'm sure others are excited for. But I had no interest in engaging with the haters because I'm tired of listening to the bullshit. Star Wars survived the 187 other times it was "RUINED FOREVER!": Ewoks, Greedo firing at Han, bad CGI Jabba in ANH special edition (and bad/overused CGI in general in the prequels and Special Editions), "Jedi Rocks," midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, "I hate sand," the "Anakin becomes Vader" scene, "She has lost the will to live," "NOOOOOOOO!", the wooden acting in the prequels, "Hayden Christensen Force ghost," "The expanded universe isn't canon anymore!" etc., etc. It will survive The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker (which those same impossible-to-please fans are already pre-emptively dismissing out of hand based on a subtitle and two minutes of footage, probably because they're still stewing over TLJ).

Some people just need to get some perspective. I understand being passionate about something, but there are limits. Something's wrong when people have spent this much time being this bent out of shape over a movie. A movie that was by any objective standard a good movie, hence the 91% Certified Fresh and 85 Meta scores. I go to the movie theater to have a good time. I've had a good time with every one of the new Disney-era Star Wars movies. All the hate just harshes my mellow, and it pisses me off that some people want something I and many millions of others enjoy to fail.

Ok..

I can see you feel really strongly about this subject. But I don't really understand why? I mean, yes, we hate on the movie. Yes, some of us think it is one the worst movies in cinema history. But what's it to you? I mean, did you write it? did you work on it? Why are getting so worked up about people not liking someone else's work? Why don't you let Ryan Jonhson defend his creative vision himself?