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RolStoppable said:
ConservagameR said:

(...)

Of everyone who's responded, I can't help but say I'm surprised the Californian has been by far the most reasonable. I think perhaps I need to take this into account and reassess and adjust my thoughts on the state.

Of course the Californian is more reasonable than the rest of the lot here. California is one of the bluest states, after all.

Just because you live in a deep blue state, doesn't automatically make you deep blue.

Just because you are deep blue in a deep blue state, doesn't automatically make you wrong.

That doesn't seem to be the case for anyone and any place red though oddly enough.

I do like surprises sometimes and learning new things. Some would even say I'm always surprised because I'm always learning. 



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Ryuu96 said:

I've counted so many "what the fuck is he talking about" in my head that I realised to myself that I'm just wasting my time.

Nothing is getting through, can't debate with people who refuse to educate themselves, I won't contribute to dragging this thread down further with whatever this debate has even became, it's hardly about states seceding now, off-topic Brexit talk, dumb comparisons between EU and USA, Mod whining, false assessments on the Russia/Ukraine war, etc.

What a complete waste of time, Lol.

Runa216 said:

Sound about right to all of you?

+ Asks about 20 questions per comment to wear the other person down.

Sound all about right to you, is one of those questions which is also posed just as much a statement. Not all question marks mean questions.

I wouldn't say a total waste on my part. It doesn't hurt to try when someone else views things differently.

Not everyone see's eye to eye on everything, some more than others.

I think we kept it relatively civil which is important.

No hard feelings on my part.



ConservagameR said:
Machiavellian said:

ConservagameR said:

You do know that amendments are proposed to congress on each session, this is nothing new.  The last reported number is 11,770 since 2019.  Out of that number only.  The majority do not even get to the Congressional committees and even fewer get to a vote in the house or senate.  So yes the process is long strict and hard to accomplish. Out of all the amendments that get submitted only 33 made it to the states and only 27 have been approved.

I really do not know if you laid it out what would be the outcome, I only know that you did not do so and by that alone you left it up to everyone else to assume what you meant.  You had plenty of opportunity to go into detail but instead you started to talk about Brexit and other examples that has nothing to do with the legal way to do it in the US.

I am not trying to play oracle here, you made a statement as if seceding from the US is as simple as making some proclamation but there is already a lot of history here and context you did not present.  Anyone can just throw out an opinion but supporting it is something totally different.  You gave no clear examples of exactly how to accomplish the task with an understanding of how the US government works.

The reason why it would be delusional with the current climate is that in order to get an amendment you need 2/3 House and Senate then you need to have it ratified by 38 states.  Its already settled law which would mean there would need to be a good case to overturn it and even if there was an amendment added to the constitution what shape that would take is totally up in the air.  Getting everyone to sign on to it would be historic in its own right.

So they don't need 34 States to agree to be able to force Congress to call a convention, and then 38 to agree to ratify anything proposed? Isn't the point to bypass DC, like in case the federal government decides to stand in the way or disregard things for whatever reason?

Is this video explanation incorrect?

Yes, I also know he says the States wouldn't ever do something crazy like abolish the 1st amendment and that a reason to do this would be to avoid civil war. This may be a better way, since some here have said the federal government definitely won't play ball. Yet as to the 1st amendment, many States don't seem to be taking it too seriously when it comes to making sure everyone is playing by the rules as of recently, or at least the federal government isn't. So what would actually happen and what would pass with a convention today, who knows, but if DC is only going to be a roadblock for many things, then this doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

I'm a little surprised nobody else mentioned this as a possibility due to my apparent lack of American political knowledge.

I didn't say anything about what it would take initially, just like how you didn't say or ask many things initially either.

So you believe there is 34 states are going to demand an amendment to allow states to leave the US and get 38 to actually ratify it.  Its probably a reason why this has not ever been done because its still just as difficult as getting an amendment the regular way.  You throw that out there like its changes the narrative of exactly how tough it is to even get an amendment to the constitution let alone getting 34 states to agree to vote on it.  Even still getting 34 states to agree to the language of leaving the US is going to be another hill to climb and you still have to ratify it with 38.  I do not believe this actually helps your case.

I would say you did not say anything during a huge amount of text you have stated on the issue is probably because you did not know and second you did not do any research.  You stated things like Brexit or they could ask nicely which is not the way it would result in a peaceful exit from the US.  You made a bunch of claims you threw at the wall that had nothing to do with the constitution or how the process would actually work and so we are still at the same place of a lot of text but with little chance of something like this happening.



ConservagameR said:

Sound all about right to you, is one of those questions which is also posed just as much a statement. Not all question marks mean questions.

I wouldn't say a total waste on my part. It doesn't hurt to try when someone else views things differently.

Not everyone see's eye to eye on everything, some more than others.

I think we kept it relatively civil which is important.

No hard feelings on my part.

Oh hey, I forgot that part! Where you lose and try to take the moral high ground. "It's important to hear things from another perspective. I TRIED"

Did you, though? did you try? Because from my perspective as a casual onlooker you didn't respect, investigate, or even properly acknowledge a single point anyone else in the thread has thrown at you. No self reflection to see where the flaws in your logic lie, no acceptance that your perspective is skewed. You try to act like you're just a noble conservative who tried to understand these weird liberal views but you didn't do any of that. 

You're a christian missionary confused when the local heathen tribe you tried to convert instead burnt you at the stake. (Metaphor, of course.)



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So far the DOJ has been on point with their investigation into Trump stealing government documents and now in a very clever move. This is in thanks to Trump lawyers and the judge that put an injunction on the documents until a special master can review them. The DOJ has setup a situation where Trump and his lawyers either claim they have declassified all documents marked confidential, Secrete and Top Secrete or relinquish that right for the DOJ to pause their investigation on those particular documents. The DOJ do not care about a Special Master looking at the other documents since their investigation is not about the President Records.

Now Trump cannot claim that the document were planted in public if you cannot make the same claim in court. His lawyers would either need to claim the documents were planted or claim that Trump declassified all the docs. This puts Trump at extreme risk because it means he would need to recognize that he was in possession of these documents in court which can be used against him in a criminal indictment. It should be interesting to see how Trump lawyers respond to this move by the DOJ. The judge already blinked.



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The. Cruelty. Is. The. Point.

Last edited by TallSilhouette - on 16 September 2022

TallSilhouette said:

The. Cruelty. Is. The. Point.

Can we collectively stop pretending that bigotry and selfishness aren't the underlying motivators for like 90% of this shit? This 'False equivalence'/'both sides' rhetoric isn't doing any favours. One side here is evil. Simple. 



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Texas and Florida governors tried to use people as political pawns and it is backfiring. Those communities the immigrants were unceremoniously shipped off to have provided those families with way more support than either of those states. Just proved who actually gives a damn about people and who just wants to score points with bigots.



You know there was a right way and a wrong way to go about relocating migrants and Desantis went for the shock and awe route. I am not sure if this changes anything for Republicans as far as support for him but I believe that the GOP are continuingly losing independents who can make or break an election. It will be interesting how this plays out. There are a lot of Christian churches who are not happy about this stunt and since Desantis plays as a Christian he continue to lean more on the Trump side of Christianity then traditional. So close to mid terms and a number of tone deaf plot lines running within the GOP circle, its like they want the Dems to keep both house and Senate. Also I thought only Trump could compose such a stupid word salad for his actions and I believe Desantis one up him on this one.

Oh well, he got the exposure he wanted maybe he was jealous that Trump was getting all the news.  I wonder if this will play out like he planed.



Trump has gone from winking at QAnon to openly embracing it.

As the movement's murder count rises, Trump eggs on the literal death cult more openly by the day. Another day in America...