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Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

What you just said is radical and should never be tolerated or accepted on this website or anywhere for that matter. 



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Jimbo1337 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

What you just said is radical and should never be tolerated or accepted on this website or anywhere for that matter. 

That's because you do not understand the context.  This is the world we live in because this is not the only case where people put themselves in situations where they can play the victim but use deadly force and walk free.  But like yourself, most people do not pay attention to all the stand your ground type cases where shooting someone for pushing you or you get in an argument and shoot someone because you felt your life is threaten. In America, shoot first means you go home with no consequences, dead man, well you just dead.



Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

Self defense is dead. 

Long live "self defense". 



Machiavellian said:
Jimbo1337 said:

What you just said is radical and should never be tolerated or accepted on this website or anywhere for that matter. 

That's because you do not understand the context.  This is the world we live in because this is not the only case where people put themselves in situations where they can play the victim but use deadly force and walk free.  But like yourself, most people do not pay attention to all the stand your ground type cases where shooting someone for pushing you or you get in an argument and shoot someone because you felt your life is threaten. In America, shoot first means you go home with no consequences, dead man, well you just dead.

I don't need to understand the context to understand that it is never acceptable to "want to shoot someone". People should not go around looking for a fight so that they can start shooting and killing people. Again, I stand by what I said. Your statement is and will always be radical. Your violent rhetoric has no place here. 



Jimbo1337 said:
Machiavellian said:

That's because you do not understand the context.  This is the world we live in because this is not the only case where people put themselves in situations where they can play the victim but use deadly force and walk free.  But like yourself, most people do not pay attention to all the stand your ground type cases where shooting someone for pushing you or you get in an argument and shoot someone because you felt your life is threaten. In America, shoot first means you go home with no consequences, dead man, well you just dead.

I don't need to understand the context to understand that it is never acceptable to "want to shoot someone". People should not go around looking for a fight so that they can start shooting and killing people. Again, I stand by what I said. Your statement is and will always be radical. Your violent rhetoric has no place here. 

It really does not matter if you consider it acceptable, Is that not how Trevon Martin went.  Man puts himself in danger, gets his butt whipped then pulls out his gun and kills the person.  You say people should not go looking for fights but that is exactly what some people has and will do and they have a number of cases that will help them get off.  The context is that this is just another case along those lines where putting yourself in harms way means you can use deadly force if stuff goes bad.  Also its not a violent rhetoric, its what happening.  Turn your eye to it and it just might be you who have to make a decision on living or dying.



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Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

I would like to develop this further. 

You suggest that someone putting themselves "into harms way" has no right to self-defense (or, to infer, no right to claim self-defense). To you, what constitutes as putting yourself into harms way? Is it any situation where someone knowingly understands that they could be a potential victim of some type of violence? If this is the case, then there are several situations you may want to think about. First, if a store owner or home owner attempts to protect their home from some violent criminal act, such as robbing or arson, and, by doing so, end up killing the other person, do you think that they are not allowed to claim self-defense? Second, if a woman is to walk into a high-crime area with a revealing outfit alone at night are they putting themselves into harms way? If so, are they not allowed to claim self-defense if they shoot a man attempting violence against them?



Machiavellian said:
Jimbo1337 said:

I don't need to understand the context to understand that it is never acceptable to "want to shoot someone". People should not go around looking for a fight so that they can start shooting and killing people. Again, I stand by what I said. Your statement is and will always be radical. Your violent rhetoric has no place here. 

It really does not matter if you consider it acceptable, Is that not how Trevon Martin went.  Man puts himself in danger, gets his butt whipped then pulls out his gun and kills the person.  You say people should not go looking for fights but that is exactly what some people has and will do and they have a number of cases that will help them get off.  The context is that this is just another case along those lines where putting yourself in harms way means you can use deadly force if stuff goes bad.  Also its not a violent rhetoric, its what happening.  Turn your eye to it and it just might be you who have to make a decision on living or dying.

You aren't making this situation any better for yourself. Let me juxtapose the following two sentences that you just stated:

"You say people should not go looking for fights but that is exactly what some people has and will do..."

"If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them [and] make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them..."

The "some people" that "go looking for fights" is you by your own admission.



Ryuu96 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

What are you, a cop?

Jimbo1337 said:

I don't need to understand the context to understand that it is never acceptable to "want to shoot someone". People should not go around looking for a fight so that they can start shooting and killing people. Again, I stand by what I said. Your statement is and will always be radical. Your violent rhetoric has no place here. 

Almost certain that this is a simple misunderstanding, Machia is being sarcastic and using an extreme example to call out the ridiculousness of the current situation(s) but he is not seriously saying he is about to go outside and start shooting people up.

His extreme example makes it seem like anyone going to an opposing rally to speak their mind and armed to defend themselves is automatically guilty if they end up using said arm to defend themselves. 



sundin13 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yep, Kyle is not guilty and lets see how this develop. I know myself. If anything jumps off, I am pulling my gun and shooting first and ask questions later and I will be looking at this case as a reference. Doesn't matter if I put myself into harms way, its who ever shoots first is the winner. If I point my gun at you and I believe you are about to pull your gun, well I am going to shoot first. If I want to shoot someone, I just walk up to them make sure to get them to do something to me first and then shoot them fearing for my life in self defense. Dead men tell no tells as the saying goes.

Self defense is dead. 

Long live "self defense". 

What? Considering Kyle's victory, self defense seems plenty alive. Help me understand your post.



Justice prevailed, again. And even in the face of the media completely misrepresenting the facts of the case. It amazes me how many people didn't realize that all people involved were white, not that that should matter in the case of self-defense, but it still destroys their angle of him being a white supremacist. Or how many still believe he illegally possessed a firearm or brought it across state lines. Kyle's only real crime was against garbage humans trying to riot and destroy a community.

What's very telling is how they focused so much on a case of a white guy shooting 3 white pieces of garbage, but are hardly covering the case of 3 white guys seemingly following and killing a black jogger in Georgia because they thought he was up to no good. Looks likes ending our 2A and self-defense rights are much more important to them than a case that could be real racism.