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Jaicee said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

@bolded: I didn't mean to say that you're Republican, but that without those mentioned policies, the National Rally and the GOP are pretty much the same in the substance of their policies.

...Okay, except that I've just described like the vast majority of their respective programs. I mean, if we just ignore the fact that one party is pro-democracy and the other isn't, the fact one party is a neoliberal capitalist institution and the other borders on properly socialist (i.e. their entire economic platforms), the fact that one party supports women's rights and the other doesn't, the fact that one party supports gun control and the other doesn't, the fact that one party supports state executions and the other doesn't...if we just ignore 75 or 80% of their respective programs, they're exactly the same! They're exactly the same except on like 75 or 80% of issues. Those aren't small changes!

And I mean frankly even when it comes to immigration policy for example, you do realize that the sizable cuts that National Rally is calling for in that regard would only put current migration levels to France on levels proportionally comparable to levels of migration to the United States during the Obama era, right? That's not exactly tyranny, dude. It just isn't.

Yes, I hear you though on who some of their friends are, and I question that too, like I said before. I don't like EVERYTHING about the party, or any party for that matter.

Doesn't really matter anyway though, considering that I'm not French. I was just trying to illustrate the crux of where I stand ideologically.

France is already far to the Left of the United States on many of these issues. For Le Pen to say "I don't support the death penalty" is not her making some radical, against the grain statement which will save lives, it is simply her affirming something which has been illegal in France since the '80s and unconstitutional since 2007. That is largely a settled issue so sorry if I don't give her bonus points for that when Macron is currently fighting for the global end for the death penalty. Similarly, I could find nothing regarding gun control so it certainly seems that she isn't really a champion of this either. 

As for immigration, in 2016, the United States approved new lawful permanent resident status for over 600,000 individuals (a figure which excludes over 500,000 individuals who were previously in the country, but were not permanent residents). The US population is roughly 5 times the population of France, so France would have to allow lawful permanent resident status for about 120,000 individuals per year in order to match the rate. Over the past few years, they have been relatively close to matching new immigrants. Le Pen proposes a reduction to about 10,000 individuals per year, a figure which is 1/12 of the rate in the US in 2016. She also proposes to restrict access to healthcare and education to the children of undocumented immigrants and undocumented immigrants themselves, and to add a 10% tax to any business who wishes to hire a non-French citizen, which would absolutely decimate the job market for non-citizens (including non-citizens who are legally allowed to work in France). Additionally, unsurprisingly, she wishes to drastically expand deportation in France (what was your opinion of ICE again?).

Le Pen is largely a one issue candidate revolving around vehement nationalism. Sure, that means she won't try to get in the way of some, largely settled issues, but it also means that you are supporting a party which stands on the platform of nationalism. The fact that you are cool with that I think says a lot. 



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'This Bill will be defined by what's NOT in it, rather than what is in it'

Biden and the Dems as a whole appear weak, this will have disastrous real world implications both in practical effects on Peoples lives and the Dems survival as a force for positive change :/   



NVM, delete.

Last edited by Dulfite - on 31 October 2021

Rab said:

'This Bill will be defined by what's NOT in it, rather than what is in it'

Biden and the Dems as a whole appear weak, this will have disastrous real world implications both in practical effects on Peoples lives and the Dems survival as a force for positive change :/   

So what, just another talking head that presents no real solution to Manchin and Sinema besides some long ball of going after Manchin daughter which in itself is a huge risk. If the only real leverage Biden has is "I will investigate your daughter", If I was Manchin, I would say in response, "I will nuke every last policy you and the progressives try to push from here to eternity".  Its a stupid line believing that it puts Manchin in the corner and he could just as easily be the Majority for the GOP come 2022.  Hell, he probably going to be that anyway.

What always interest me is how gullible people are when they fall for campaign promises. It always shows just how much people do not understand the government and the process. This is not just Dems but GOP.  When a President campaign on stuff he actually cannot personally do himself but need Congress to get to his desk. Then those campaign promises are just pipe dreams. During Obama run when he was talking about change is coming and campaigned on a lot of stuff that needed congress, I thought then as I do now, that was some pipe dream BS. There is not change without first a big change in Congress.  People continue to vote in the same old heads that have kept any real change from happening for decades.  If we had actual term limits in Congress, I can actuaaly see us moving to some real change but term limits is a unicorn that will never appear probably in my lifetime.  Presidents always campaign on BS because the public always falls for it. The public falls for it because they have no clue on the actual process on what the President can get done with or without congress.


The difference between the GOP and Dems. When Trump could not get something done, they blamed it on the Dems, when Biden cannot get something done they blame it on Biden. This is because he has no loyal following but also the GOP rarely eats their own. Their narrative is always going to be, Dems fault. The progressives will blame Biden and the far right and centrist will blame the progressives and thus to the world but especially to voters who are ignorant to the process they all just look bad.  Their narrative unlike the GOP does not build any loyalty and thus their voter base is fickle.  This is one area where the GOP truly outclass the Dems because they always keep the narrative that its the Dems fault and never ours.



How important this Bill is to our future ability to deal with the Climate Crisis cant be over stated

Sir David Attenborough (95 yrs old) tells World Leaders what they must do to avert the coming Climate Crisis at COP26, he is amazing  

 



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Cody Johnston gives a good, lengthy analysis of US conservatism's trouble with comedy:



CaptainExplosion said:

America needs to cut it's ties with China for all the bullshit China has pulled the past few years. FYI, Xi Xinpig, Taiwan is a country, not one of your provinces.

Just saw today Yahoo pulled out of China ... 300 jobs lost ... that will show them. 

Honestly not mocking you it just relates with the story I read today.



These might be very tangential things, but I believe Biden should strike an Iran deal pretty soon, definitely before the midterms.

That should alleviate gas prices and hopefully avert a disaster like today in Virginia.



Its the end of Dems, you have to love the doom and gloom over Virginia going Red. Interesting that Education rose up so high in voters exit polls. I guess the fear of CRT got those voters out to vote more than the fickle nature of Dems. GOP still play the ground game better.

I wonder will Trump still go on about voter fraud now that his boy won? I am sure he will not be asking for a recount anytime soon.



Well that was a good day for conservatives. Minneapolis voters decided they did want a normal police department by a landslide.

New Jersey is currently much closer than polls thought it would be on average and is showing the Republican actually up by a 1000 votes or so currently.

Buffalo elected a write-in democrat over the primary progressive/Squad-backed winner. (That's an indirect Republican win).

New York City elected a moderate democrat mayor who used to be, and is still essentially, a 90's era Republican. This indirect-republican win already occured in the primary process, but today sealed it. Far more middle-ground than recent mayor's here.

Virginia went red not just with Governorship, but also are current winning Lt. Gov, Attorney General, and 51 of the 100 delegate seats (though many of them are razer thin, including ones they are losing presently). They previously had a 55-45 split in favor of democrats, FYI.

It's always the down the ballot stuff that most interests me, as big personalities can get people to vote, but only political movements can get out the vote for smaller positions. If Younkin had won, but all those other positions had stayed blue, that would have told us people really just didn't like the current governor and/or really liked the new guy. But since everything seems to be going red in Virginia, that tells us this is more a political movement against what the Democrats in general have tried to do recently, especially considering Biden won by 10 points a year ago in Virginia. What a massive change in a small time.

This is yet another election where the polls have been wrong. And I love polls, have been paying close attention to them since 08. I love data in general, so it saddens me that this data is increasingly inaccurate. I've found a short term fix for myself in this election and in 2020. Basically, whatever the polls say on average, count on Republicans doing 1-2% better than the polls indicate, which would translate to a 2-4% swing in their favor on election day. Then results won't be so shocking lol. Maybe one day we can get back to an environment where conservatives don't have to fear being cancelled or fired for having their own views and then the polls can start being more accurate. Until that day, I think many will just continue to hang up when a pollster calls.

And yes, I'm aware that pollsters aren't going to report that sensitive information to our bosses, but it's moreso the knee-jerk reaction many of us conservatives have nowadays to hang up or not express ourselves. I can't tell you how many times I've not spoken, or other conservatives I know haven't spoken, in a social or work environment out of fear, but have heard plenty of times people speak openly about liberal policies, especially at the jobs I've had in teaching/education, as if they should be the standard and anyone speaking against them is crazy. I just have to stay silent until election day, then repeat the next cycle. I want that norm to end.

Last edited by Dulfite - on 03 November 2021