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1. The number is random. In their mythology the only state how many people would live by failing while using other methods. They fail to mention the 41% statistic in their methodology. Also since people don't register gun purchases or ownerships the report they used for gun ownership by state is not fully accurate.

2. Well they mention that 20% would be other methods. That's a pretty big and important percentage for them not to break down.

3/4. You posted a statistic of kids aged 10-19 committing suicide with household guns. There's a good possibility that a good chunk of these could have been accidents. The report you posted pertaining to this could have been misleading for not seperating accidents and actual sucide attempts.

5.Gun control could mean different things but the report analyzes over 11 studies of gun control laws and mention 3 others legislation and they still concluded that gun laws reduce gun sucide but there is no evidence to show that they reduce the total amount of sucide in a population.

6. This does not really prove much besides that some states have lower rates and some have higher. Yeah some states with stricter gun laws show lower rates but it's important to look at these rates before and after these laws were passed.

California

Firearm registration law that went into effect 2011. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&division=6.&title=4.&part=6.&chapter=6.&article=2.

Assault weapon law that mostly expanded the definition of these weapons and but restrictions for those that are in or served in the military. The law wne into effect 2011.http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&division=6.&title=4.&part=6.&chapter=6.&article=2.

Another Assault weapon law that expanded previous laws to ban more guns.Some parts went into effect later in 2016 and other parts early 2018. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1135
Now here is California's sucide rate over the last few years https://www.livestories.com/statistics/california/suicide-deaths-mortality.

Illinois

A law requiring background checks to sell guns from 2012. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapAct=430%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B65%2F&ChapterID=39&ChapterName=PUBLIC%2BSAFETY&ActName=Firearm%2BOwners%2BIdentification%2BCard%2BAct%2E

These laws banned some guns and attachments.They went into effect in 2015. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K24-1.htm http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K24-2

Here is their sucide rates https://www.livestories.com/statistics/illinois/suicide-deaths-mortality

Btw i picked these states because California had a yes for all the gun laws in the link you provided and Illinois had a yes for 3/4 guns laws. If I have tim I can do it for other states. But yeah the point i'm making is that these states have a lower suicide rates even before some gun legislation were initiated.

California is interesting, as the laws do seem to have some effect. After all, while the suicide rate is rising across the US for the last couple years, California stays flat, bucking the trend. Illinois does have a lower suicide rate overall, but unlike California it's following the trend and rising up.



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jason1637 said:

I don't support euthanasia or any form of assisted suicide

Why not?

Have you worked in the emergency services or the health sector and seen what people have to endure even with the aid of powerful drugs?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
jason1637 said:

I don't support euthanasia or any form of assisted suicide

Why not?

Life is precious and the government shouldn't let people kill themselves.

edit: No I haven't worked in an emergency room.



jason1637 said:
Pemalite said:

Why not?

Life is precious and the government shouldn't let people kill themselves.

edit: No I haven't worked in an emergency room.

Not for everyone,people should have the freedom to decide that for themselves.

I do not think you ever had to endure the kind of pain or even come close to what some of those experience,if you had you might have came up with a better argument instead of mirroring that personal take.



jason1637 said:
Pemalite said:

Why not?

Life is precious and the government shouldn't let people kill themselves.

edit: No I haven't worked in an emergency room.

It wouldn't be the decision of the Government, it would be a decision by the person in pain, if anything not having it legalized means that the Government is controlling peoples options related to their own life rather than allowing individuals the right to choose. - Thus your stance is a little bit (And respectfully) hypocritical.

I didn't ask if you worked in an emergency room... That kind of life experience isn't necessary to get an appropriate idea of what kind of quality of life (Or lack there-of) these people looking at such options have.

We are talking about individuals confined to a bed in excessive pain, unable to walk, partake in family events like birthdays, work or live life, they generally need a carer/nurse to look after them... And often many are unable to even sleep due to the constant excessive pain without the aid of powerful drugs... In short, they are a vegetable that is constantly screaming out for help... And they can end up being in that state for decades... It's frankly rather depressing.

In any other scenario we would put an animal down to end it's suffering, where-as with human beings we seem to prolong it.

I used to work as a carer, I had to care for such individuals, it's not pretty, it's not easy...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
jason1637 said:

Life is precious and the government shouldn't let people kill themselves.

edit: No I haven't worked in an emergency room.

It wouldn't be the decision of the Government, it would be a decision by the person in pain, if anything not having it legalized means that the Government is controlling peoples options related to their own life rather than allowing individuals the right to choose. - Thus your stance is a little bit (And respectfully) hypocritical.

I didn't ask if you worked in an emergency room... That kind of life experience isn't necessary to get an appropriate idea of what kind of quality of life (Or lack there-of) these people looking at such options have.

We are talking about individuals confined to a bed in excessive pain, unable to walk, partake in family events like birthdays, work or live life, they generally need a carer/nurse to look after them... And often many are unable to even sleep due to the constant excessive pain without the aid of powerful drugs... In short, they are a vegetable that is constantly screaming out for help... And they can end up being in that state for decades... It's frankly rather depressing.

In any other scenario we would put an animal down to end it's suffering, where-as with human beings we seem to prolong it.

I used to work as a carer, I had to care for such individuals, it's not pretty, it's not easy...

The government shouldnt let people make that decision. I don't like the government getting involved in a lot of things but not promoting sucide is a good thing.

That's literally what you asked "Have you worked in the emergency services or the health sector and seen what people have to endure even with the aid of powerful drugs?". I haven't worked in these places but i've been in an emergency room a few times and yeah the pain people go through sucks but they should just fight it and they can get better.

People should not decide to put an animal down because we don't have their consent and it's wrong anyway.



Immersiveunreality said:
jason1637 said:

Life is precious and the government shouldn't let people kill themselves.

edit: No I haven't worked in an emergency room.

Not for everyone,people should have the freedom to decide that for themselves.

I do not think you ever had to endure the kind of pain or even come close to what some of those experience,if you had you might have came up with a better argument instead of mirroring that personal take.

So since I haven't experienced something I can't give my opinion on it?



jason1637 said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Not for everyone,people should have the freedom to decide that for themselves.

I do not think you ever had to endure the kind of pain or even come close to what some of those experience,if you had you might have came up with a better argument instead of mirroring that personal take.

So since I haven't experienced something I can't give my opinion on it?

You always can but it looks like your lack of experience holds you back from seeing the full picture,thinking "suicide is bad" and involving that into this argument could be considered a pretty empty black and white thoughtprocess .



the-pi-guy said:
jason1637 said:

The government shouldnt let people make that decision. I don't like the government getting involved in a lot of things but not promoting sucide is a good thing.

That's literally what you asked "Have you worked in the emergency services or the health sector and seen what people have to endure even with the aid of powerful drugs?". I haven't worked in these places but i've been in an emergency room a few times and yeah the pain people go through sucks but they should just fight it and they can get better.

People should not decide to put an animal down because we don't have their consent and it's wrong anyway.

Euthanasia isn't promoting suicide.  

Some people aren't going to get better.  People with painful terminal cancer with 3 weeks to live might want to make the decision to end their life.  

People that are living off machines, in horrible agony, with no chance of recovery, might make the decision that they want to end their life.  

Euthanasia is promoting sucide in some instances. If it were legal worldwide liek Dark Lord suggested then the option would be given to more people.

For the very rare cases where people won't get better they should try to enjoy the little life they have left. Also you don't know if they won't get better. Medicine is getting better everyday so there is always a chance a cure to cancer can be found any day now.

And that's a bad decision.

Immersiveunreality said:
jason1637 said:

So since I haven't experienced something I can't give my opinion on it?

You always can but it looks like your lack of experience holds you back from seeing the full picture,thinking "suicide is bad" and involving that into this argument could be considered a pretty empty black and white thoughtprocess .

My thought process here is not empty. It's very full. If you kill yourself you're commiting sucide. If you're sick and ask someoen to kill you you're still commiting sucide because you're givng them your consent. Medicine is always getting better and even if the odds are low you never know what can happen.



jason1637 said:

The government shouldnt let people make that decision. I don't like the government getting involved in a lot of things but not promoting sucide is a good thing.

The Government isn't promoting suicide.
The Government would essentially be stepping back from dictating any decision relating to it, leaving the choice with the individual and their families.

What you are actually proposing is for government intervention to tell people what they can and can't do...

Besides, if someone is in excessive pain, they can "make" their own creative ways to end their life anyway, regardless of what the Government says or do... I mean, what is the Government going to do? Jail them? They are dead.

Besides when people take action in their own way, it is often a more brutal and painful way anyway. - Having pain-free options would make it a much cleaner and humane process... And hopefully result in me being called to less incidents where someone has literally jumped off a bridge or cliff and I have to scrape up their bloody leftovers.

jason1637 said:

That's literally what you asked "Have you worked in the emergency services or the health sector and seen what people have to endure even with the aid of powerful drugs?".

The Emergency Services isn't just an emergency room.
It's any first responder... Be it an Urban Search and Rescue from a collapsed building, Firefighter entering a burning home, Extricating casualties from a car accident... You name it.

jason1637 said:

I haven't worked in these places but i've been in an emergency room a few times and yeah the pain people go through sucks but they should just fight it and they can get better.

They often don't get better. - That is the entire point. You are proposing that people should suffer in pain indefinitely.

jason1637 said:

People should not decide to put an animal down because we don't have their consent and it's wrong anyway.

A few years ago I went to a truck rollover with about 100 sheep in it.
I had to assist in killing half the stock as many had broken necks, broken legs, large wounds that would have simply meant that those animals would not have had any chance of surviving or minimal quality of life... In short, it was better for the animals to be put down and disposed of then and there. (No, you couldn't eat them due to various reasons.)

Their consent wasn't necessary, you don't allow animals to suffer, it's brutal and wrong.

jason1637 said:

So since I haven't experienced something I can't give my opinion on it?

You can provide your opinion on it (And is something that is welcomed!), it just means it's not from a more educated lived-perspective.

But I am wondering if you have formed your perspective due to religious influences or something else?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--