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Forums - Politics - The US Politics |OT|

SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:
The disgruntled Bernie voters count more because they're the worst of the bunch. Pretending to care about social advancements and then doing everything in their power to prevent it.

More likely the matter is you misunderstand why those who switched teams were supporting Sanders in the first place. 

Do you think that everybody that supported Sanders in 2016 did so solely for his progressive policies?

Is it not possible that many simply didn't like Clinton?
Is it not possible that many simply wanted someone not beholden to Washington politics?
Is it not possible that many simply didn't want the status quo?
Is it not possible that many simply liked Sanders for his consistency or honesty rather than policies?

...etc...

One would think that if you support a politician you do so because you support their policies and want that that person will be able to implement those policies once elected i.e. their literal only job. You know, politics. If you want to support a person it's a little bit weird that you do the opposite of what that person would like you to do to support them.

I guess it is true what I said earlier in this thread. The US doesn't actually do politics. They only do sports competitions and personality cults. We should really rename this thread accordingly.

Last edited by vivster - on 07 May 2020

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SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

One would think that if you support a politician you do so because you support their policies and want that that person will be able to implement those policies once elected i.e. their literal only job. You know, politics. If you want to support a person it's a little bit weird that you do the opposite of what that person would like you to do to support them.

I guess it is true what I said earlier in this thread. The US doesn't actually do politics. They only do sports competitions and personality cults. We should really rename this thread accordingly.

Not too far off reality for many people.  But yes, many people do not vote strictly on policy.

Think of this way, if 12% of Sanders supporters ended up voting for Trump, how unrealistic would to be to say that 3% of his voters fell into one of each of those categories I listed previously? 

The reason why they didn't vote for Hillary really are absolutely irrelevant. If you vote against the person you pretend to support then you're doing supporting wrong. And not voting for Hillary is voting against Bernie and everything he stands for.

Say you want to support homeless veterans. So you go out and proclaim boldly that Veterans are awesome and they deserve support. And when you actually meet a homeless veteran on the street and he begs you for food you go ahead and instead curb stomp him. You're not a very good person then.

Bernie begged his supporters to vote for Hillary, but got curb stomped by some of them. And that's not really a cool thing to do to a nice old man.

Last edited by vivster - on 07 May 2020

If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

The reason why they didn't vote for Hillary really are absolutely irrelevant. If you vote against the person you pretend to support then you're doing supporting wrong. And not voting for Hillary is voting against Bernie and everything he stands for.

You should read up on our primary and exit polling data.  Why someone is supported is not always just policy.  Keep in mind we basically have a 2 party system.  Germany has nearly a dozen.  It's far easier to vote on policy when you have more parties. 

Even in a 2 party system you should only vote for policy, because that's what everything is about. That's why Bernie told everyone to vote for Hillary. Because Bernie is all about policy.

I know about the US "political" system and I also know that it has nothing to do with politics and voting in the US is basically the antithesis of democracy. And especially in this terrible terrible system it is important to vote for the party which policy you most identify with and not whose haircut you favor.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

Even in a 2 party system you should only vote for policy, because that's what everything is about. That's why Bernie told everyone to vote for Hillary. Because Bernie is all about policy.

I know about the US "political" system and I also know that it has nothing to do with politics and voting in the US is basically the antithesis of democracy. And especially in this terrible terrible system it is important to vote for the party which policy you most identify with and not whose haircut you favor.

So your issue is with the irrationality for which some people vote in the US?

And not specifically with Sanders voters then.

Basically yes, but I would still consider Bernie defectors worse than even Trump voters. Probably because I hold people who support Bernie to a higher standard than people who have already given up and support a barely sentient orange. Bernie supporters aren't supposed to be assholes, which makes it worse when they are.

There is no country easier to vote in than the US, so people who fuck up making the simplest decision piss me off.



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RolStoppable said:
Just a short question to check if I got it right: The American midwest is the mideast, correct?

Yea your question was already answered but it is kind of funny Ohio is considered Midwest (I grew up there).

Just old terms that never got updated.  Basically we consider everything past Midwest as west and anything east of Midwest as east or east coast then you have the southeast and Southwest. We just never adopted the term Mideast after we expanded fully.  Some might use term Mideast maybe to describe states like Penn but I never really heard any American say Mideast.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 07 May 2020

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the-pi-guy said:
The letter the district attorney wrote defending the shooters.

https://georgiarecorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Barnhill-letter-Brunswick-shooting.pdf

It's unbelievable.

It seems that in the opinion of this DA, murder is legal.

Due to the existence of both the citizens arrest statute and the stand your ground laws, you are able to put an individual in a position where they feel they must use force for the protection of their own life and then kill them when they attempt to do so.

At least in this DA's opinion. I hope for the sake of everyone living in Georgia that the justice system doesn't see it the same way.

Also, bringing up the past convictions and mental health of the victim is actually insane. This DA is a fucking idiot.



the-pi-guy said:
The letter the district attorney wrote defending the shooters.

https://georgiarecorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Barnhill-letter-Brunswick-shooting.pdf

It's unbelievable.

"This site not available in your country"

Could you give some examples from the text please?



vivster said:
SpokenTruth said:

So your issue is with the irrationality for which some people vote in the US?

And not specifically with Sanders voters then.

Basically yes, but I would still consider Bernie defectors worse than even Trump voters. Probably because I hold people who support Bernie to a higher standard than people who have already given up and support a barely sentient orange. Bernie supporters aren't supposed to be assholes, which makes it worse when they are.

There is no country easier to vote in than the US, so people who fuck up making the simplest decision piss me off.

When you say people that have voted for Trump have given up, you really shut down conversations and polite discourse from happening. I don't like Trump, but I did vote for him. And why? Because policy. Here are a few things he has done or worked on that I agree with:

I am against the murdering of babies. He has appointed like-minded judges.

I think people should respect the borders of every nation.

I want criminal justice reform. People shouldn't be in prison for years/decades for non violent crimes.

I want to stop losing money to China by having massive trade deficits. It may not be a massive issue now, but if we keep going this way for the next 50 years it's going to be a big problem. Better to resolve this now.

I want to not lose jobs to countries that pay employees dirt cheap and have a lower cost of life. It's not fair on American families.

I want every American to continue to have the right to protect themselves and their loved ones with weapons, not just their bare hands. Mass shootings occur when no one has anything to defend themselves with. Banning guns means the only people that have them obtained them illegally and probably are up to no good, which makes the rest of us unsafe. Also it's a huge determent to someone invading us if we have an instant militia available.

People should be able to run their businesses as they wish, hire who they want, and allow whoever they want in the door. It's not business of mine making those decisions for a company I invested no money into.

People should be able to practice whatever religion they want as long as they aren't physically hurting others.

There are things I disagree with that Trump does, for sure, and I don't like his personality, but policy wise he is mostly satisfying, whereas Biden/Bernie would not be. I'm not strictly conservative either, I have some liberal and some libertarian perspectives, but mostly when it comes down to it Trump is the most in line with my hot button issues. At least so far. If Biden was still pro life like he used to be, and didn't swing to the Warren/Bernie/Aoc wing then I'd probably be more independent. Sadly these aren't the blue dog democrats anymore and have been taken over by extremists.



the-pi-guy said:
The letter the district attorney wrote defending the shooters.

https://georgiarecorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Barnhill-letter-Brunswick-shooting.pdf

It's unbelievable.

What's unbelievable about it?



KLAMarine said:
the-pi-guy said:
The letter the district attorney wrote defending the shooters.

https://georgiarecorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Barnhill-letter-Brunswick-shooting.pdf

It's unbelievable.

What's unbelievable about it?

That someone can follow a black guy with your guns out because he matches a suspect and then when he freaks out because a pickup truck with two white guys with guns is following him and tries to wrestle the gun away the white guys are allowed to shoot him without issue. 

Looking at this from the victim's point of view. He was being followed in what could've easily just been a lynching waiting to happen. He decides to be proactive instead of letting himself get killed, and in the resulting shuffle he's shot several times. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that a person being followed by civilians with weapons should take no action against those following him. If they were marked police that would be different, but this is equivalent to someone walking behind me in a park with a rifle out. The guy with the rifle has it because he assumes the worst of people, but when the people he follows do the same and assume he's a criminal they're the ones acting irrationally. If it's rational to bring a gun because the person you're following may have ill intent, it's rational to assume the person following you with a gun has ill intent. 

On the other hand, I do think it's reasonable to ask that people don't do random armed citizen's arrests based off little to no information. 

Last edited by Torillian - on 10 May 2020

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