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Forums - Politics Discussion - President Trump Signs Executive Order Protecting Free Speech On College Campuses | TIME

Hiku said:
eva01beserk said:

Already corrected that I got the speaker wrong, it was milo. 

Universitys can make invitations and cancel them at any point sure. They can offer money to who they like to speak and offer nothing to thouse they deemed hateful. I got no problems with that. But if the university does not incetivice anybody to come and they say thats ok Ill do it for free, I dont even need a stage or anything and you still have a problem and say completly ban the person, then that is just insane. 

Do you mean that as long as someone is willing to do something at your institution, you need to let them do it?

eva01beserk said:
And no. It should not require a majority vote. If 100 out off 20000 want to invite a certain person, if they can afford it then just let them.

I'm not sure I follow you here?
If 100 out of 20000 want Justin Bieber, and 19900 out of 20000 want Beyonce, Justin Bieber should get the spot?

eva01beserk said:
I dont really mind hate. Im hispanic living in a 99% white state. If people hate me I could not care less. As long as they dont do anything to me they can say what they want. This is the problem I have with what you say. even if I hated someone who hates me, that still gives me no wright to attack them if they have done nothing to me yet. Fighting back in self defense I got no problem with. But the riots i have seen, the destruction, the people getting hurt by antifa and other extremist just because someone is talking and they dont like it is not acceptable. Thats child like behavior. 


I didn't say they have a good reason to attack someone. In fact, I said "Threats of violence should never be tolerated though".
What I said was, they have a good reason to hate people who for example hate others due to the color of their skin.
Hate and violence are not the same thing, even if they often go hand in hand. You can hate someone without wanting to physically hurt them.

A person who hates someone that hates others due to the color of their skin would by definition not be anti-hate if you take the term literally. But that term is usually used to describe people who are against discrimination and hate based on ethnicity, sexuality, religion, etc.

When you say that you're fine if people hate you for being hispanic, I'm sure you do to a degree. When it's just words. But those kind of words are often meant to encourage action. 

If someone wants to speak at a public institution then yes, let them. As long as i government funded its public. 

Does having justin bieber stop beyonce from coming? Then I dont see a problem. I know its a straw man what you just said, but to enagage it anyways. at worst lest say theres only one venue. The only issue I see is that they both cant be there at the same time. You could even have the most popular firt if you want, even another week if it pleases you. But having one does not exclude the other.

I know you dint say that they have good reason. I dint claimed that you did. But I was being more specific to my original post as I clearly said thouse anti hate groups where rioting, but you clearly side stepped that. 

But thats the thing, you asume that because some desagree with you you think they are conspiring against you. And even if they do they are doing so in a public square, the first thing to do before silencing them is resonable argument. Let the public know why they are wrong and hateful. If you just shut them down you are admiting to them that you cant respond and they think they are correct. If they are inciting violence then that is against the law and they should go to jail.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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Torillian said:
Kerotan said:

I think it's less about solving and more about allowing a basic right. 

Is there a basic right to talk at universities that people are being denied I'm unaware of?

Yes its called freedom to speak at the public square. As long as your government funded, you are public.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

sundin13 said:
Kerotan said:

I think it's less about solving and more about allowing a basic right. 

How far does this logic go? Do you wish for these Universities to provide a platform for anyone who requests one?

Yes. They wont roll out the red carpet for anyone, but they should still be allowed to speak freely. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
sundin13 said:

How far does this logic go? Do you wish for these Universities to provide a platform for anyone who requests one?

Yes. They wont roll out the red carpet for anyone, but they should still be allowed to speak freely. 

What does that mean? Anyone can hang out in the public University quad and talk. Nothing has changed in that respect (and that is protected by the 1st Amendment). However, people seem to be taking issue with how Universities provide people with platforms. There is a very big difference there between allowing speech and providing platforms. You say that they "wont roll out the carpet for any anyone" but that statement is far too vague to actually discuss. Should they allow these people (ie "anyone") to speak in front of an organized assembly as hosted by the University in the manner that a University typically hosts outside speakers?



eva01beserk said:
sundin13 said:

How far does this logic go? Do you wish for these Universities to provide a platform for anyone who requests one?

Yes. They wont roll out the red carpet for anyone, but they should still be allowed to speak freely. 

Aren't university campuses already public spaces? Everyone can go there and talk to people, of course you can't organize an event there without the permission of the university.



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Torillian said:
Kerotan said:

I think it's less about solving and more about allowing a basic right. 

Is there a basic right to talk at universities that people are being denied I'm unaware of?

It seems to be mostly invited events where the Libertarian or Conservative speaker is being given an extremely hard time, if not completely rejected from speaking on certain campuses. Not just a few either. It's not always the campus administration outright denying the event, but there are lot's of times where a crowd of students from the campus gather to protest and get violent to the point where they won't let people into the event. Sometimes if they can't stop them that way, they will constantly pull the fire alarm to force the event to be cancelled. There are times when the event get's cancelled because another event/speaker was booked instead last minute, just by chance. Sometimes it's flat out rejection due to how they are viewed by the mainstream, which is usually negative. Other times within the event itself, it's bombarded by protesters who yell and shout consistently, making the event a wash. Sometimes there is security to get them to leave, but it's not all that often the speaker pushes hard to get them forced out. Usually they allow them to continue to protest, as annoying as it is, because it is their right, and so they would be hypocrites themselves to forcefully stop them.

People like Milo, Shapiro, Peterson, Ruben, etc, are constantly dealing with these kinds of situations. Libertarians and Conservatives. Even Owen Benjamin, a comedian, who's into politics as well, is constantly hassled trying to set up his events. So many times he's set up the event and paid for it, and they cancel on him last minute to try and silence him. To try and say it's simply bad luck or coincidence would be to simply deny the fact of the matter. It happens so often to him and others, that they now try to set up a back up plan where the event can be moved to another close unknown location that only the people at the original event get told if there's a problem. Ruben was supposed to speak at some campus I believe and he ended up moving to a local arena because of the last minute issues.

You also have to take into account private contributions to these campuses, sometimes quite large, and if those entities refuse to continue to help fund the school due to allowing Libertarians or Conservatives to hold events and speak freely, what are you going to do? By Trump pushing back and holding back Government funding due to denying free speech, directly or indirectly, it will force the campuses to decide what's more important to them, and whether or not they want to educate their students to be as tolerant as possible in the future.

This is just what is happening in the physical world, not to mention the issues these people and many others are having in the digital world in terms of being banned or de-platformed etc. There was an interview with the YouTube CEO and the female host mentioned she wished the CEO would ban Shapiro because her son was watching his videos and she didn't like it and was worried it would lead to him becoming an extremist right winger. She also mentioned how she told the CEO earlier how she needed to ban Jones, which coincidentally ended up happening not much later. Now while Jones is certainly somewhat controversial, Shapiro is about as straight laced as they come, and more importantly, if your the parent, it's your job to take care of your kids. Social media isn't a school or babysitter and expecting them to be, is another main reason as to why censoring has become such a large problem and concern.



sundin13 said:
eva01beserk said:

Yes. They wont roll out the red carpet for anyone, but they should still be allowed to speak freely. 

What does that mean? Anyone can hang out in the public University quad and talk. Nothing has changed in that respect (and that is protected by the 1st Amendment). However, people seem to be taking issue with how Universities provide people with platforms. There is a very big difference there between allowing speech and providing platforms. You say that they "wont roll out the carpet for any anyone" but that statement is far too vague to actually discuss. Should they allow these people (ie "anyone") to speak in front of an organized assembly as hosted by the University in the manner that a University typically hosts outside speakers?

Already answerd that before. Bur EricHiggins just just made a detailed post, read that. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

MrWayne said:
eva01beserk said:

Yes. They wont roll out the red carpet for anyone, but they should still be allowed to speak freely. 

Aren't university campuses already public spaces? Everyone can go there and talk to people, of course you can't organize an event there without the permission of the university.

Why not? If I dont require anything from the university why do I need to ask? 

Have you seen the change my mind segment from steven crowder? He brings his own desk and chairs and sits outside wanting to talk to who ever aprouches. How does he harm anyone in that maner. If you dont like the topic just walk away. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Torillian said:
EricHiggin said:

There was a time when people weren't aloud to speak about round Earth. They were silenced, jailed, and even killed for talking about it. One can't help wonder how history would be different if they were aloud to speak up initially, or if they were still being silenced up until today. How did they know back then that a round Earth wouldn't cause major problems down the road? it has caused 'problems' from a certain point of view, especially from a religious standpoint.

Well I don't see too many Satanists being invited to speak at religious schools, but if they were, I can't help but assume their audience is going to be very very small. If the students believe their professors teachings, they aren't likely to participate in the optional event anyway, and attending doesn't necessarily mean they will be converted either.

I do agree that if this were to be scheduled, it wouldn't be a surprise for certain communities to rally to try and stop it from taking place. That would be different than the students themselves trying to stop it though.

I also don't think this point is a great comparison unless your trying to equate conservatism to satanism. Liberal vs Conservative isn't supposed to be good vs evil, it's supposed to be one set of worthy idea's vs another set of worthy idea's. Then again, if your of the impression that satanism is a worthy idea, I guess you could make the argument against it, and you would have a point considering no one factually knows if Satan is evil. We simply know what we're told and can read, much like the media and public documents.

Who says they need to be invited? Didn't notice that in the executive order. 

I'm just interested in how this executive order which is obviously set up to help conservatives talk more at universities will be used by those whose views I agree with more to talk at religious universities. Good and evil doesn't come into it really. The satanists are pretty agreeable from my viewpoint. 

They don't have to be, but how many Satanists are going to waste their time pushing to speak at religious schools? If your looking to sell/promote electric cars, you don't set up a booth at Nascar events if your looking at making the most of your time.

It does come into it considering the overwhelming world view is that Satan is evil. You could say half of America thinks conservatism isn't as useful as liberalism, but it's a small fraction that actually thinks its evil. I'm not saying those people shouldn't have a say either, but they need to peacefully protest in that case, not forcefully protest or cause chaos by pulling fire alarms, etc. As far as I'm concerned, if Satanists want to speak on a religious campus, by all means, just don't expect God himself to turn a blind eye.



eva01beserk said:
sundin13 said:

What does that mean? Anyone can hang out in the public University quad and talk. Nothing has changed in that respect (and that is protected by the 1st Amendment). However, people seem to be taking issue with how Universities provide people with platforms. There is a very big difference there between allowing speech and providing platforms. You say that they "wont roll out the carpet for any anyone" but that statement is far too vague to actually discuss. Should they allow these people (ie "anyone") to speak in front of an organized assembly as hosted by the University in the manner that a University typically hosts outside speakers?

Already answerd that before. Bur EricHiggins just just made a detailed post, read that. 

I mean, Eric really does nothing to answer my questions (probably because he wasn't responding to me). I haven't read all of your posts, but if it doesn't say any more than that, it probably doesn't answer me either. Again, should Universitites allow these people (ie "anyone") to speak in front of an organized assembly as hosted by the University in the manner that a University typically hosts outside speakers? Are we now arguing that free speech means you have to give people a platform (which isn't what free speech means), and if so, are there any limits to this idea?