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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Moren said:
tsogud said:

Good. That's good progress. Those plans are good plans, he should adopt all of their proposals and stick to them because they're good proposals. Too bad I don't trust him but we'll see.

I hope that moving forward, Biden takes more active steps to try and gain the trust of undecided left-leaning voters and can work with Warren/Sanders on shaping a few points of his agenda.

I think Biden has been positioned in a way where he is allowed to move left in the general, and get away with it.

Yeah, I agree. I hope he does that as well.

If he's the nominee moving left and positioning himself as more populist is a winning strategy against Trump. Biden's voting record is a big problem though something that'll be tough to overcome in the general especially.



 

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Bruh the first thing Biden does is to cough.



jason1637 said:
Bruh the first thing Biden does is to cough.

He coughed twice, but Bernie also cleared his throat so...... idk



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Bernie lied about the staff working from home. He opened a new office in PA yesterday.



Idk why CNN always go with people with strong accents from Univision.



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Biden has literally been lying non stop the entire time even when Bernie gives him chances to tell the truth. Honestly people need to google these things discussed and see how Honest Bernie has been and how much of a liar Biden has been. Biden is getting destroyed on the facts



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omfg I love the internet



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uran10 said:

 "Not me, Us" The Us in that will not move to Biden

I would say speak for yourself, but you already seem to be alternating between speaking for yourself and speaking for an entire movement whenever it's convenient.

Anyways, i'm kind of sympathetic to what you're saying. Bernie was my preferred candidate by far, I voted for him in my primary, and it's depressing to think that incrementalism will win the race. However, I think it's dangerous to say that Biden is as bad as Trump, let alone worse. If you care about basic human rights, a $15 minimum wage, most deportations being halted, free public college for those making an income of less than $125k, and a (admittedly kind of vague) plan to decrease drug prices by driving up competition with other nations' drug products through importation, are all steps in the right direction. You say that Biden has to earn the vote of progressives, and that they don't owe it to him, and that's right! Correct! That's exactly what he's trying to do. That's why, no matter how much Biden's base might not like Sanders or how much Sanders base don't want to face defeat, we have to look at this in the context of how much Sander's movement has actual changed political discourse. Biden wouldn't be proposing bankruptcy reform or free college if progressives weren't in the race, sure, but that's why it's important to recognize when a candidate is trying to do better and represent a bigger tent of the party. I will vote for Joe Biden because I think he has done enough to convince me and perhaps even some other left-leaning people (though I don't claim to speak for other Sanders supporters) that he will enact more progressive change in his administration, even if they will be compromises, nonetheless they will be steps forward. I do agree though that people shouldn't have to vote for candidates they don't like, that you don't owe anything to the Democratic party, and I also think that the "lesser of two evils" concept represents a huge weakness in a two-party system. But, to expand on that concept non-literally, I don't think Joe Biden is really a lesser evil, or even a neutral force, but rather more a mild good. I don't want to see all of the elections in my life time be an infinite cycle of modest progress, but in the here and now Joe is the clear pick over Trump. 

And, as much as it sucks to admit, it's not exactly like most people who are both 1) being realistic and 2) Sanders supporters, are actually voting for Sanders because they believe that all of his policies in their purest form will pass. They won't and wouldn't. There has to be a break, a compromise, somewhere in there. It's just that I believe his compromises would be farther left. 

Last edited by AngryLittleAlchemist - on 16 March 2020

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
uran10 said:

 "Not me, Us" The Us in that will not move to Biden

I would say speak for yourself, but you already seem to be alternating between speaking for yourself and speaking for an entire movement whenever it's convenient.

Anyways, i'm kind of sympathetic to what you're saying. Bernie was my preferred candidate by far, I voted for him in my primary, and it's depressing to think that incrementalism will win the race. However, I think it's dangerous to say that Biden is as bad as Trump, let alone worse. If you care about basic human rights, a $15 minimum wage, most deportations being halted, free public college for those making an income of less than $125k, and a (admittedly kind of vague) plan to decrease drug prices by driving up competition with other nations' drug products through importation, are all steps in the right direction. You say that Biden has to earn the vote of progressives, and that they don't owe it to him, and that's right! Correct! That's exactly what he's trying to do. That's why, no matter how much Biden's base might not like Sanders or how much Sanders base don't want to face defeat, we have to look at this in the context of how much Sander's movement has actual changed political discourse. Biden wouldn't be proposing bankruptcy reform or free college if progressives weren't in the race, sure, but that's why it's important to recognize when a candidate is trying to do better and represent a bigger tent of the party. I will vote for Joe Biden because I think he has done enough to convince me and perhaps even some other left-leaning people (though I don't claim to speak for other Sanders supporters) that he will enact more progressive change in his administration, even if they will be compromises, nonetheless they will be steps forward. I do agree though that people shouldn't have to vote for candidates they don't like, that you don't owe anything to the Democratic party, and I also think that the "lesser of two evils" concept represents a huge weakness in a two-party system. But, to expand on that concept non-literally, I don't think Joe Biden is really a lesser evil, or even a neutral force, but rather more a mild good. I don't want to see all of the elections in my life time be an infinite cycle of modest progress, but in the here and now Joe is the clear pick over Trump. 

And, as much as it sucks to admit, it's not exactly like most people who are both 1) being realistic and 2) Sanders supporters, are actually voting for Sanders because they believe that all of his policies in their purest form will pass. They won't and wouldn't. There has to be a break, a compromise, somewhere in there. It's just that I believe his compromises would be farther left. 

That's you. Joe is a pathological liar and is owned by the 1% and the dem establishment. They don't want any real change, he himself said nothing will fundamentally change. Joe Biden is a corrupt politician and his 40 years have caused more devastation to us than Trump could ever. You trust giving him power cause I don't. I personally don't think he'd do anything of the sort that he's claiming to move left on. His entire record shows that so why should I trust his recent changes over his 40 years in power? Voting for Joe is like voting for the devil that's why #neverbiden was trending and I will say it, he can't convince me because I can never trust him. He lied the entire debate, he's been lying the entire campaign, he's been lying for so long what makes you think this "pivot" isn't just another lie?

on top of that, this is what Biden and his team think of the movement. If you can vote for people that say this directly to us idk man:

And 1 more edit: I can literally post hundreds of people on who are saying they will not vote for Biden ever who don't care about this fake pivot. I can only post all the ancedotes they have about others who aren't politically active who wouldn't vote for Biden but would have for Bernie and will sit home. You just described the lesser of 2 evil btw and let me ask you something very simple.

Let's say Joe tried to pass this version of free college, how much do you want to bet he'd have to compromise on this half measure and end up changing fundamentally nothing? You literally cannot start from the center with this, if you don't go all the way you'll get nothing because that's unfortunately how our system works. All these compromise ideas are doomed to fail, republicans will laugh at them just as much as they laugh at the real deal and so will most right wing dems, so please tell me how you think this left pivot is real and how you have faith in this pathological liar to actually do what he says?

Last edited by uran10 - on 16 March 2020

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