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Forums - General Discussion - "Leaving Neverland": Do you think Michael Jackson is Innocent?

 

Thriller and Invincible or Bad and Dangerous

Good guy, wrongly accused 55 51.89%
 
Talented Bad guy 28 26.42%
 
A little of both. 23 21.70%
 
Total:106
omarct said:
PAOerfulone said:

By continuously going after an innocent, dead man, who can no longer defend himself since... he's dead... with similar allegations and accusations that have loooong since been disproven and will continue to be disproven the more they are brought up, all these people are really doing is empowering actual abusers and damaging the claims and cases of actual victims. 

What a load of baloney. I haven't watched the stupid documentary. But just from watching videos and interviews of MJ speaking and caressing these children I can see clear as day what the fuck was going on. People say he had mental issues thats why he did and said what he did, but have you ever thought what sort of mental issues these children who were abused have gone through? Being made to fall in love with their idol who sexually and mentally abused them? You citing these boys defending him or going back on what they have said proves nothing. All you need is 3 inches of forhead to really know what was going on. No rational individual would leave their boys along with this monster in the same room. The fact that fools like you defends him just show how easily people are deceived and why sexual predation of minors is so rampant across the world. Did you know that most cases of sexual molestation of minors comes from close family member or family friends? Have you stopped for a second and tried to think about anything at all? 

Seems like something you haven't done at all. 

If I were the parent of a molested child, I would want the demon who did it to be put behind bars for good instead of getting a $20 million settlement and then not even bother following through with a criminal trial that could put him in prison for a very long time like the father of Jordan Chandler in 1993 did. I wouldn't have needed to have the prosecution fabricate evidence like the Arvisos in 2003-2005 did. I would have disregarded what my son, Jimmy Safechuck said and pressed my own charges and allegations against him when he told me he was molested by Michael in 2005, like any competent parent would, instead of keeping quiet about it and dancing when he died because "YES! He can't hurt anymore children!" (Even though Safechuck said he didn't realize he was abused until 2013... 4 Years after Jackson died. So apparently the Safechucks must be time-travelers!)

If I were Michael Jackson, and I actually DID molest Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck, there is absolutely, positively, no way in hell I would call them to testify in my defense in 2005. In which they have to go through a thorough and meticulous private investigator and then withstand a rigorous and grueling cross-examination from the defense and the prosecution where at any point in time they could easily, EASILY, crumble and incriminate me, expose me, and assist in having me convicted of all charges, locking me away in prison for 25 years and ruining my career, name, and reputation in the process. What an incredibly stupid gamble to take on my part. Obviously, given my power, fame, money, status, people, and resources at my disposal, I could come up with better, stronger, more effective, and MUCH, MUCH safer means of defending myself than trying to put 2 boys, now fully grown men, I butt-raped on the witness stand to say "he never touched me." 

You continue to allow your emotions and feelings to dictate your judgement without  actually stopping for a second and trying to think about anything at all and exploring factual evidence, which all shows he didn't do it. If you ignorantly and foolishly continue to refuse to look at those facts or even acknowledge them, then we have nothing more to discuss. We're done here. So with that, I bid you a good night and try to be more logical and factual moving forward. 

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 17 March 2019

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The accuser conveniently remembers past memories when facing financial difficulty and rejected from a job position. This guy is not a victim, he is entitled and has The World owes me mentality.



PAOerfulone said:
omarct said:

What a load of baloney. I haven't watched the stupid documentary. But just from watching videos and interviews of MJ speaking and caressing these children I can see clear as day what the fuck was going on. People say he had mental issues thats why he did and said what he did, but have you ever thought what sort of mental issues these children who were abused have gone through? Being made to fall in love with their idol who sexually and mentally abused them? You citing these boys defending him or going back on what they have said proves nothing. All you need is 3 inches of forhead to really know what was going on. No rational individual would leave their boys along with this monster in the same room. The fact that fools like you defends him just show how easily people are deceived and why sexual predation of minors is so rampant across the world. Did you know that most cases of sexual molestation of minors comes from close family member or family friends? Have you stopped for a second and tried to think about anything at all? 

Seems like something you haven't done at all. 

If I were the parent of a molested child, I would want the demon who did it to be put behind bars for good instead of getting a $20 million settlement and then not even bother following through with a criminal trial that could put him in prison for a very long time like the father of Jordan Chandler in 1993 did. I wouldn't have needed to have the prosecution fabricate evidence like the Arvisos in 2003-2005 did. I would have disregarded what my son, Jimmy Safechuck said and pressed my own charges and allegations against him when he told me he was molested by Michael in 2005, like any competent parent would, instead of keeping quiet about it and dancing when he died because "YES! He can't hurt anymore children!" (Even though Safechuck said he didn't realize he was abused until 2013... 4 Years after Jackson died. So apparently the Safechucks must be time-travelers!)

If I were Michael Jackson, and I actually DID molest Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck, there is absolutely, positively, no way in hell I would call them to testify in my defense in 2005. In which they have to go through a thorough and meticulous private investigator and then withstand a rigorous and grueling cross-examination from the defense and the prosecution where at any point in time they could easily, EASILY, crumble and incriminate me, expose me, and assist in having me convicted of all charges, locking me away in prison for 25 years and ruining my career, name, and reputation in the process. What an incredibly stupid gamble to take on my part. Obviously, given my power, fame, money, status, people, and resources at my disposal, I could come up with better, stronger, more effective, and MUCH, MUCH safer means of defending myself than trying to put 2 boys, now fully grown men, I butt-raped on the witness stand to say "he never touched me." 

You continue to allow your emotions and feelings to dictate your judgement without  actually stopping for a second and trying to think about anything at all and exploring factual evidence, which all shows he didn't do it. If you ignorantly and foolishly continue to refuse to look at those facts or even acknowledge them, then we have nothing more to discuss. We're done here. So with that, I bid you a good night and try to be more logical and factual moving forward. 

 

 

Ok when you have kids make sure you send them to sleep to some famous singers room for a few weeks. I am sure everything will be fine and dandy. Heck maybe you want some recommendations? I heard Bill Cosby really loves young girls. How about R. Kelly? His little girls even defend him from the bad bad people. What a load of crap from a michael jackson fanboy, that gif you posted tells me everything, you never took this seriously, because you never gave a damn about those kids or what they went through. This whole conversation was pointless, the monster is dead so no point in wasting my time, I only hope some people wake up to the massive abuse that goes on in the entertainment business towards young boys and girls. The blind following and deification of famous individuals is nothing but lunacy, even worse than religion.

User Banned For This Post By ~ PwerlvlAmy

Last edited by PwerlvlAmy - on 17 March 2019

omarct said:
PAOerfulone said:

By continuously going after an innocent, dead man, who can no longer defend himself since... he's dead... with similar allegations and accusations that have loooong since been disproven and will continue to be disproven the more they are brought up, all these people are really doing is empowering actual abusers and damaging the claims and cases of actual victims. 

What a load of baloney. I haven't watched the stupid documentary. But just from watching videos and interviews of MJ speaking and caressing these children I can see clear as day what the fuck was going on. People say he had mental issues thats why he did and said what he did, but have you ever thought what sort of mental issues these children who were abused have gone through? Being made to fall in love with their idol who sexually and mentally abused them? You citing these boys defending him or going back on what they have said proves nothing. All you need is 3 inches of forhead to really know what was going on. No rational individual would leave their boys along with this monster in the same room. The fact that fools like you defends him just show how easily people are deceived and why sexual predation of minors is so rampant across the world. Did you know that most cases of sexual molestation of minors comes from close family member or family friends? Have you stopped for a second and tried to think about anything at all? 

You could picture the evidence because his way of acting around children was weird?

People defend the actual law and the judgement of the law after an immense investigation proved him not guilthy,you want to also call them fools because a video made you angry?Most people are undecided on this and that is normal given the courts reaction,does not make them as bad as you again picture them to be and resorting to personal attacks does only show that you can not handle the subject without attaching emotions to it that have a possibility of manipulating your truthfullness.



omarct said:
I feel like if those boys were little girls nobody would doubt them.....

If that was true you wouldn't have people asking for testimony being enough as proof and also the "don't blame the victm" movements. People want proof.

omarct said:
PAOerfulone said:

By continuously going after an innocent, dead man, who can no longer defend himself since... he's dead... with similar allegations and accusations that have loooong since been disproven and will continue to be disproven the more they are brought up, all these people are really doing is empowering actual abusers and damaging the claims and cases of actual victims. 

What a load of baloney. I haven't watched the stupid documentary. But just from watching videos and interviews of MJ speaking and caressing these children I can see clear as day what the fuck was going on. People say he had mental issues thats why he did and said what he did, but have you ever thought what sort of mental issues these children who were abused have gone through? Being made to fall in love with their idol who sexually and mentally abused them? You citing these boys defending him or going back on what they have said proves nothing. All you need is 3 inches of forhead to really know what was going on. No rational individual would leave their boys along with this monster in the same room. The fact that fools like you defends him just show how easily people are deceived and why sexual predation of minors is so rampant across the world. Did you know that most cases of sexual molestation of minors comes from close family member or family friends? Have you stopped for a second and tried to think about anything at all? 

I didn't realised we had a psychic here.

You should work in court as you can so easily see everything with 100% certainty.

And since you opened up the send your children to a famous person house for a sleep over. Would you send your child to someone that was accused of being a child rapist and you know he was accused?



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Frankly i dont care, the music remains amazing.



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.



d21lewis said:

For as long as I can remember, I've gobbled up any MJ information I could find. He was like a rare unicorn. Yes, there's TONS and tons of video of him now but his actual appearances on TV were few, post Thriller. We'd go months if not years waiting for our next MJ fix. It was always a special and magical event when we finally saw him. We always were left hungry for just a little more.

With that said, there are a few things that we just decided to ignore. Things that I'm seeing with more mature eyes that are tainting my views of Michael. Some aren't even in the documentary.

-He DEMANDED that a kid be allowed to go with him on tour. I think it was during the time of Dangerous. He wanted to take this kid from his family and got mad when they refused. He threatened the family with his layers. This wasn't either of the two from the documentary, either.

-He somehow always attached himself to the "kid if the moment". From Emmanuel (Webster) Lewis to Macaulay Culkin. Whatever kids America was fascinated with, they were hanging with Michael.

-He never really had any public relationships or relationships at all. Just these weird obsessions with people like Brooke Shields, Elizabeth Taylor, or Diana Ross. His two weddings were just...weird.

-He had drug addictions. Just like a kid, right? He had gone to rehab many times and he was smart enough to "doctor shop" for the ones who'd give him what he wanted instead of the ones who would give him what he needed.

-He straight up lied about not knowing what "skin bleaching" was. He had the creams that would give him that effect. Yes, he did have vitaligo. He also lied about his surgeries. He claimed he only had two for breathing issues when there were actually over a dozen.

-We say "Poor Michael didn't have a childhood" but he had several siblings. Like 8 or something, off the top of my head. Some older and some younger. They grew up in the same household. Michael didn't go solo until he was in his teens. If Michael didn't have a childhood, they didn't either. None of them turned out like he did.

-I HAD a childhood. It only lasted a small amount of time. Michael wanted his childhood to last for DECADES. That's just greedy. And despite being a "child", he would make some really adult decisions like buying into Sony, the Beetles catalog, etc. S

-He had so many accusers. Maybe some had questionable motives but damn. Staff, family, "victims", security. All of them just wanted money after seeing the people before them fail time and again?

-Some of the things in the documentary require a truly creative and evil mind to even come up with. Safechuck even had a collection of rings, including a "wedding ring" that Michael gave him. Things like that, things like the hotel rooms, buying a home for his parents after court--there has to be a paper trail, right?

-He paid a rumored $20-$25 million to his accusers. That should have been a more than adequate amount to pay for a defense if he was innocent. Especially with the money he had at the time. Why did he cave? Did he think he could lose? What did they have on him? Even in the doc, they defended him saying that "proved it was just about the money".

-Michael's response to being accused was just like that of Gary Glitter and R. Kelly--a message to the public saying "They just want money! The truth will come out. I'm the victim!"

-Wade and Safechuck's alleged experience seems awfully familiar to that of the Netflix doc "Abducted In Plain Sight".

-According to his doctor (this may be false), Michael was chemically castrated at an early age to protect his voice. He couldn't do the things he's been accused of. But he sat right there and smiled when his wife said "We have sex. It's the best sex of my life!"

-Not 100% sure if it's true but I saw online that too much time has passed and neither man can get anything from the Jackson estate. Meanwhile the two are hated by MJ fans, Wade's father is dead (Michael related? Who knows?), Safechuck's mom has been virtually kicked out of the family for her part in all of this. This is winning? Yeah, they could make some money from all of this controversy. Books, etc.

My wife said it in a way that made sense. Michael made us fall in love with him when he was "normal". We loved him so much that when things got weird we just accepted it without question. Everyone was a fan. That's how he works. He probably did the same to those kids. Before they realized how weird things really were, they were already in deep.

I don't know. I've had a lot of time to think about it. I'm not keeping a closed mind on this one. I hate that he's not here to defend himself but his history is just sketchy. We're smarter these days than we used to be...but then we still have people who think the earth is flat.

Atleast you consider all information existing and remain skeptical without making your own truths to fill the gaps and that is something to respect .



There is no evidence he did anything. The FBI, the BEST investigators in the world couldn't find anything. Sorry, but this is the Brett Kavanaugh situation all over again. Why so many years later? Its all for monetary/political gain. Also, the accusers should go to jail because they openly admitted they lied in court.

Not to mention there is a lot of holes in their story that doesn't add up.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 17 March 2019

I was born in the 90's so my only experience and knowledge about Michael Jackson, was in 2003 when the second allegation came up and I was only 10 to 12 years old. I remember seeing the infamous video with his face appearance through the years and I was freaked out. Seriously, that was a very hard image for a ten years old kid. So, as you can understand, anything bad i would hear about this man, would seriously lead me to believe it. But, after his death and after seeing all the video clips of him (as MTV played them for a whole week) and starting learning stuff about MJ, I really started to feel a bit guilty for being so critical about him. But what did I know, and what could i thnik of him, under this frame the media were creating. Even after he was found innocent, I had my doubts.

I seriously believe that not only his was a really talented man, but more than that, a charismatic personality. A man who can make you love him and get inspired by his speech (let alone his music and dancing skills). So, when a charismatic man, comes along with huge success, it's easy to think that many will be dissapointed by that (especcially when they come second to a black one) and many more will try to absorb by his glory and reputation. The biggest mistake of MJ is that he just couldn't understand and mainily didn't want to understand, that the world even if you are the Jesus himslef, can't accept the fact, that you can sleep with underage children. Jackson thought that his charity campaigns, allowed him to do that. Be careful. By saying sleeping with children, under no cimcunstances I mean that anyone is anyway a child molester. But everything has each line. It's just how it is. And you have to protect your fans too. Your fans like you as an enternainer and as a humanitarian. You can't ask from them to defend you, for stuff like that. So, I trully believe that MJ always had the best intentions and under no way did he do anything innapropriate. But, every chase brought by his accusers really don't persuade me in the least.

The second one it's the most obvious one as he was judged and found innocent. The first one was abviously orchestrated from a man, who disparately wanted some money, for his personal ambitions. Michael had to fight for his dignity and to show to the future malicious accusers, that he isn't an easy target. By accepting this contract, the only he achieved was to make all of them know, that by accusing and destroying someone, you can also earn a ton of money. So, as for the accusers we speak right now, seriously i ca'nt find any credibility in their words. Wade said that,he understood that all stuff MJ did to him was molestation, but after he had a child and a breakdown. So, he's trying to say that Jackson made penetration to him, but his was able to understand this after 30 years. Even if this is right, I dont understand why you have to make a whole documentary about this and why you claim so big amount of money and after your first denunciation was rejected. Another case, of ungrateful dudes who stopped gaining popularity and power with their association with MJ busines, and try to earn even more with immoral ways.

Last edited by Quodam_Diem - on 05 February 2023