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Forums - Politics Discussion - Would you kill baby Hitler?

 

Would you kill baby Hitler?

Yes 17 16.35%
 
No 87 83.65%
 
Total:104
SpokenTruth said:
What better way to vanquish an enemy than to make him an ally.

Rather than kill him (if I had forethought of what he would achieve as an adult that we know now), I would raise to fight against the Nazis.

Imagine someone of his energy, drive, and ability to rouse the spirits within others as the main counter against the early 3rd Reich regime.

This goes beyond the scope of the question. It's not "How would you raise baby Hitler" it's would you kill or not kill him. The question ceases to be interesting if you change the path of history in any other way. So, choosing not to kill Hitler means 6 million Jews and 79 million others will die; killing baby Hitler takes a key genocidal figure out of history; keep in mind, without Hitler, it's very possible Nazis would not have risen in Germany - it was not German nature to be fascist or anti-Semitic relative to the rest of the world (Russia was the anti-Semitic nation pre-Hitler). Hitler forged the country in that way during a period of vulnerability.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Immersiveunreality said:
Azelover said:

I'm not a doctor, so I can't assess this with certainty.

What I know is. A hardcore psychopath can't feel empathy. Because his/her brain, is incapable of it. Usually, as children, they like to torture animals. And some children have even drawn schemes to kill other children, as well as adults. Most psychopaths are very intelligent, and they plan everything as to not get caught. So many of them appear to have normal lives, but they will harm others if they feel they can. They can't feel emotions, but are incredibly astute in simulating them. They can lie with maestry. Even being able to pass lie dtector tests with ease. Their neural activity is completely different from a normal person's.

Hitler, in my opinion, was born a monster. As he was likely a hardcore psychopath. Even then, of course I wouldn't kill him as a child. But I would keep close attention to his deeds, and his development.

That sentence says that you do not know enough about the human mind to make that same assumption.

People could be born to have a psychopathic functioning brain but that does not in any way mean they're little monsters,if you think Hitler is an exception then that might just be your feelings twisting reality for you.

No darling. I think you don't know a lot about psychopathy. I'd recommend studying material that is more recent. Neurology and psychiatry are constantly evolving.

A severe case of psychopathy, as was probably the case with Hitler, is impossible to be treated in any way whatsoever. Because it's a deficiency of the actual brain. And it's not possible to treat with medication, because a whole portion of the brain is not funcional. They can't feel empathy for another living being, or remorse. A true psychopath can go through a human body like it is a cold piece of metal.

And most of them, especially the more severe cases, have chronic boredom, which drives them to seek things that are more extreme. Like burning and gutting puppies as children. Setting a box of frogs on fire to watch them jump. Things like that. This is more common than we'd like to think.



Azelover said:
Immersiveunreality said:

That sentence says that you do not know enough about the human mind to make that same assumption.

People could be born to have a psychopathic functioning brain but that does not in any way mean they're little monsters,if you think Hitler is an exception then that might just be your feelings twisting reality for you.

No darling. I think you don't know a lot about psychopathy. I'd recommend studying material that is more recent. Neurology and psychiatry are constantly evolving.

A severe case of psychopathy, as was probably the case with Hitler, is impossible to be treated in any way whatsoever. Because it's a deficiency of the actual brain. And it's not possible to treat with medication, because a whole portion of the brain is not funcional. They can't feel empathy for another living being, or remorse. A true psychopath can go through a human body like it is a cold piece of metal.

And most of them, especially the more severe cases, have chronic boredom, which drives them to seek things that are more extreme. Like burning and gutting puppies as children. Setting a box of frogs on fire to watch them jump. Things like that. This is more common than we'd like to think.

Again the way you take in that info says you do not know enough about it to assume baby's can be born as monsters,being a psychopath does not inherently make someone evil and even feeling no empathy or less empathy does not make someone evil.

Lacking empathy does never mean that same person does not have to care about doing the right thing,they can still have a lot of knowledge of what is right or wrong even when their own feelings react differently to it,selfawareness within psychopath can turn them into the best of people.



OhNoYouDont said:

No physicist on the planet agrees with your argument that because there isn't a unified theory that QM's effects, observations, and research are bunk. Keep digging yourself deeper into the ground though through fundamental ignorance.

The absence of a unified model does not implicate the existence of such a model which shows how very little you understand about the universe ... 

Also as narrow minded as you are how can you be so certain that it is not quamtum mechanics that falls out of favour to reconcile with general relativity or rather the other way around like you envision ? You've had zero substance so far to contribute this discussion ... 

OhNoYouDont said:

??? How did you go from racism to slavery? We're talking about the 1940s, not the 1800s here champ. Get in the right century at least.

So I assume it's now OK to normalize colonialism, am I right ? Ironic how you dug your own grave here ... 

OhNoYouDont said:

Which thought of yours have I not considered? I think I've responded to all of them...

Well for one thing you're hypocritically dismissing the concept of destiny all the while being so resolute in a stupid assumption of a better world without Hitler with NO PROOF to back up your assertion all the while scoffing at me every chance you can get in which my cynicism leads me to believe that you are acting in bad faith ...

Despite playing devil's advocate the whole time you've never addressed the core concerns in my alternative views to which you so readily dismiss ... 

Let's just leave no evidence or hypocritical view points as the biggest flaws to your arguments ... 

OhNoYouDont said:

So now we've not only left the appropriate century, but we've gone to an entirely new millennium? All I can do is laugh at the futile attempt here.

I assume fuck the progress made from the past then ? 

OhNoYouDont said:

I've entertained all of your thoughts and thoroughly refuted them. In what way is that closed-minded? You sound like you're simply upset that I do not agree with your sophomoric ideas on the subject. 

Ouch, kinda pathetic that this is coming from a guy who probably has no formal training in either the sciences or mathematics. The sooner you stop spouting off shallow shit about quantum mechanics the more coherent your argument will get and I can promise you that ...  

I'm not upset or anything like that. In fact, I sort of pity you because of the fact that you've made zero compelling arguments so far ... (you're not teaching me crap because both you and I know you're intellectually dishonest about this whole discussion)

I'm warning you that you're suffering from dunning kruger syndrome and that you're biting off more than you could possibly chew because you don't who you're dealing with here that's more than just a layman and has an idea of what they're talking about ... (if you weren't so wishy washy you could've concealed it better)



Nope. Because removing hitler might create a much worse future. For instance maybe stalin would have conquered all of Europe or a differant Dictater may have risen up instead, one that didnt expel the jews, and then maybe nuclear bombs were invented and used earlier etc etc.



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fatslob-:O said:
OhNoYouDont said:

No physicist on the planet agrees with your argument that because there isn't a unified theory that QM's effects, observations, and research are bunk. Keep digging yourself deeper into the ground though through fundamental ignorance.

The absence of a unified model does not implicate the existence of such a model which shows how very little you understand about the universe ... 

Also as narrow minded as you are how can you be so certain that it is not quamtum mechanics that falls out of favour to reconcile with general relativity or rather the other way around like you envision ? You've had zero substance so far to contribute this discussion ...

Because I'm addressing the claim you made that destiny is a real thing. That concept is contingent upon determinism, which QM clearly does not follow. It's not me who has to reconcile this, because I don't carry absurd baggage like destiny...

Point me to one physicist touting a deterministic model of QM to ground your ideas in reality rather than fantasy if you want me to take you seriously.

BTW did you even learn that probabilistic and deterministic are mutually exclusive yet? I posted that definition for you to read but you chopped it out of my reply to save yourself from additional embarrassment. Oops? 

OhNoYouDont said:

??? How did you go from racism to slavery? We're talking about the 1940s, not the 1800s here champ. Get in the right century at least.

So I assume it's now OK to normalize colonialism, am I right ? Ironic how you dug your own grave here ... 

It's not me who has an issue here. Your original argument was that racism is a worse outcome than a world war, which so far you've avoided with red herrings and taken absolutely no lengths to support. I will reiterate my initial reply: good luck convincing anybody of that.

OhNoYouDont said:

Which thought of yours have I not considered? I think I've responded to all of them...

Well for one thing you're hypocritically dismissing the concept of destiny all the while being so resolute in a stupid assumption of a better world without Hitler with NO PROOF to back up your assertion all the while scoffing at me every chance you can get in which my cynicism leads me to believe that you are acting in bad faith ...

Despite playing devil's advocate the whole time you've never addressed the core concerns in my alternative views to which you so readily dismiss ... 

Let's just leave no evidence or hypocritical view points as the biggest flaws to your arguments ... 

I've dismissed destiny with concrete science. Not my fault you haven't read a book since 2009. Under certain frameworks it's obvious to see why Hitler's death would offer superior moral value to the world. You have to invoke additional events to say things like "...but but but what if that causes aliens to come and destroy the planet?" Ridiculous at best.

OhNoYouDont said:

So now we've not only left the appropriate century, but we've gone to an entirely new millennium? All I can do is laugh at the futile attempt here.

I assume fuck the progress made from the past then ?

 Do you even understand what I said? Try actually making an effort.

OhNoYouDont said:

I've entertained all of your thoughts and thoroughly refuted them. In what way is that closed-minded? You sound like you're simply upset that I do not agree with your sophomoric ideas on the subject. 

Ouch, kinda pathetic that this is coming from a guy who probably has no formal training in either the sciences or mathematics. The sooner you stop spouting off shallow shit about quantum mechanics the more coherent your argument will get and I can promise you that ...  

I'm not upset or anything like that. In fact, I sort of pity you because of the fact that you've made zero compelling arguments so far ... (you're not teaching me crap because both you and I know you're intellectually dishonest about this whole discussion)

I'm warning you that you're suffering from dunning kruger syndrome and that you're biting off more than you could possibly chew because you don't who you're dealing with here that's more than just a layman and has an idea of what they're talking about ... (if you weren't so wishy washy you could've concealed it better)

I'm happy to compare resumes any time but just be aware that your posturing only makes you look like a delicate flower with a fragile ego. Please look up argumentum ad vericundiam and become intimately familiar with it before continuing this dialogue.

The arguments are convincing to those capable of rationality. Not so much to those who are more interested in puffing their chest out.

Sir, if anybody is suffering the DK effect (note: not syndrome) it is you. I have repeatedly demonstrated why the things you've said are wrong, whether scientifically or linguistically. You've yet to concede any of these concrete facts.

Come at me bro.



redacted. because I'm too lazy check on everybody i would have insulted.

Last edited by COKTOE - on 01 April 2019

- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

OhNoYouDont said:

Because I'm addressing the claim you made that destiny is a real thing. That concept is contingent upon determinism, which QM clearly does not follow. It's not me who has to reconcile this, because I don't carry absurd baggage like destiny...

Point me to one physicist touting a deterministic model of QM to ground your ideas in reality rather than fantasy if you want me to take you seriously.

BTW did you even learn that probabilistic and deterministic are mutually exclusive yet? I posted that definition for you to read but you chopped it out of my reply to save yourself from additional embarrassment. Oops? 

Still beating the bush I see LOL ...

It's too bad you didn't realize that QM doesn't govern the extremely large world. It's physical laws only represents the microscopic scale. The fact that you fail to see the importance of general relativity in relation to the bigger scales means that you're obviously not a physicist ... 

General relativity IS deterministic so what are you going to do about the two sets of laws that clash with each other ? 

OhNoYouDont said:

It's not me who has an issue here. Your original argument was that racism is a worse outcome than a world war, which so far you've avoided with red herrings and taken absolutely no lengths to support. I will reiterate my initial reply: good luck convincing anybody of that.

Zero substance response once again ... 

OhNoYouDont said:

I've dismissed destiny with concrete science. Not my fault you haven't read a book since 2009. Under certain frameworks it's obvious to see why Hitler's death would offer superior moral value to the world. You have to invoke additional events to say things like "...but but but what if that causes aliens to come and destroy the planet?" Ridiculous at best.

Did your so called 'concrete' science fail to realize that QM doesn't work elsewhere aside from microscopic scales ?  

So much for being all knowing ... 

OhNoYouDont said:

Do you even understand what I said? Try actually making an effort.

How about we make this a little more thrilling if I'm boring you ?  

OhNoYouDont said:

I'm happy to compare resumes any time but just be aware that your posturing only makes you look like a delicate flower with a fragile ego. Please look up argumentum ad vericundiam and become intimately familiar with it before continuing this dialogue.

The arguments are convincing to those capable of rationality. Not so much to those who are more interested in puffing their chest out.

Sir, if anybody is suffering the DK effect (note: not syndrome) it is you. I have repeatedly demonstrated why the things you've said are wrong, whether scientifically or linguistically. You've yet to concede any of these concrete facts.

Come at me bro.

Resumes ? Hahaha, I'll see if I can try to entertain you ... 

1) Suppose that the dim(row(A))=m but the dim(col(A))=n and suppose that n>m. The rank(A)=m but why is the nul(transpose(A))=0 ?

2) Under what conditions is a path integral supposed to path independent ?

3) What are the two key objectives achieved by using the Jacobian matrix ? 

"Come at me bro." LMFAO, let's see if you can even answer any of these questions and I'll see how long you take as well ... (this'll hopefully get you to stop beating the bush so much and it'll show how much you truly know)



fatslob-:O said:

1) Suppose that the dim(row(A))=m but the dim(col(A))=n and suppose that n>m. The rank(A)=m but why is the nul(transpose(A))=0 ?

2) Under what conditions is a path integral supposed to path independent ?

3) What are the two key objectives achieved by using the Jacobian matrix ? 

I want to answer these. Haha Either way, I hate Linear Algebra... Heck, Algebra in general.

Delving into Jacobian Matrix is probably beyond the scope of most people, mostly dealt with that when playing around with Haptic devices.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SpokenTruth said:
Jumpin said:

This goes beyond the scope of the question. It's not "How would you raise baby Hitler" it's would you kill or not kill him. The question ceases to be interesting if you change the path of history in any other way. So, choosing not to kill Hitler means 6 million Jews and 79 million others will die; killing baby Hitler takes a key genocidal figure out of history; keep in mind, without Hitler, it's very possible Nazis would not have risen in Germany - it was not German nature to be fascist or anti-Semitic relative to the rest of the world (Russia was the anti-Semitic nation pre-Hitler). Hitler forged the country in that way during a period of vulnerability.

But you can't have that scenario.  If you elect to kill him, you are doing so with the knowledge of his future actions (otherwise you are killing a random baby for no reason).  And if you have knowledge of his future actions, you have the power to change those actions.

These strict hypotheticals are always premised as a no win situation. I prefer to take the Kobayashi Maru route.

There is not a "no win" situation. It's a scenario A or scenario B scenario where scenario A is to repeat history and scenario B is removing a specific historical figure which will have a fundamental effect on the future since Hitler most certainly did have a profound influence.

Yes you are killing Hitler with the knowledge of his future actions, that's the point. But going outside of the boundaries of the question, as I mentioned, makes the question uninteresting, because then it changes the nature of the question into "What would you do with Baby Hitler?"

A vote for "No" is a vote to kill 6 million Jews and 79 million others in the war inevitably started; having any other outcome invalidates the question. Killing Baby Hitler is only a dilemma if it is the only way to change history.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 02 April 2019

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.