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Forums - General Discussion - Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

I am not sure but apparently you will have a chance to ask him yourself as he is coming back!



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EricHiggin said:

Without religion, it would be tough to scientifically reason that stopping Hitler was the right thing to do.

This is so insanely dumb, one cannot let this go unanswered.

Religion Inc. was behind Hitler 99.99%. The few exceptions (like a priest uncle of my mother who one day disappeared without a trace after speaking out against Hitler multiple times) don't really paint a better picture of "Religion Inc". This is, as usual, your convoluted attempt at giving morale to religion and deny it to science. Morale ultimately is an evolutionary trait, not a religious invention, so it actually belongs into the science box, not the religious box.



padib said:
aiwass said:

He "sacrificed" himself (he's God, so I don't imagine it's too much of an inconvenience), gets to come back to life, AND gets to go to Heaven in the end. What about mortal people who have died in more gruesome ways in selfless acts who DON'T get to come back to life? Ultimately, the whole story isn't that impressive even if you believe it.

Why did he supposedly do it? I dunno, seems like absurd theatre for a timeless creator of the universe who takes a vested interest in where people place their reproductive organs.

I sincerely sought it out for the majority of my life. Being surrounded by believers made it a profound inconvenience not to be convinced by this stuff. I still appreciate the church community and wish I still had the friendships that I lost due to my deconversion. As an omnipotent, all-knowing agent who knows exactly how many hairs are on my head, he would also know exactly what criteria is necessary to convince me of the religion. This quote, I'm sorry to say, is a load of old waffle.

You have to look for the difference, if you sincerely sought him (and I believe you).

You know, there is a difference between people dying gruesome deaths like any other human, after having lived, drank, made love and basically lived a normal human life, plus or minus some vices or virtues. But Jesus was God (as claimed), dying at the hands of his beloved creation in longing to save them. That is not just the death of a martyr, it is a declaration of love, one that many profess in love but only one did it fully while being perfectly good and blameless.

Do you see how his death is different?

Who claims Jesus was God?

That is not how it is written down,God did create Jesus using an ancient spirit from the heavens and he used the image of himself but that does not make jesus into God.

 

Revelation 4:11

You are worthy, Jehovah* our God, to receive the glorya and the honorb and the power,c because you created all things,d and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Luke3:38:

 son of Eʹnosh,ason of Seth,bson of Adam,cson of God.

John 1:49:

Na·thanʹa·el responded: “Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel.”

Colossians 1:15 :

 He is the image of the invisible God,a the firstborn of all creation;b

Micah 5:2:

And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah,aThe one too little to be among the thousands*of Judah,From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel,bWhose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.

john 6;38:

for I have come down from heavena to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.b




Being thankful to a god or any of its sidekicks is always baffling fo me. I am always thankful to my good friends, because they always help me when I am in distress. I am thankful to my doctors, because they help me live a healthier life. I am thankful to my teachers, because they thought me how to read. God did not give me anything that I need. I did not exist. I was fine. He gave me a life with financial difficulties, health problems, an environment riddled with wars and I know for a fact that I have it much better than most. What is there to be thankful about, I wonder.

If anything , he should be thankful as we brought some joy to his lonely life. He should work much harder to please us.



padib said: 
You have to look for the difference, if you sincerely sought him (and I believe you).

You know, there is a difference between people dying gruesome deaths like any other human, after having lived, drank, made love and basically lived a normal human life, plus or minus some vices or virtues. But Jesus was God (as claimed), dying at the hands of his beloved creation in longing to save them. That is not just the death of a martyr, it is a declaration of love, one that many profess in love but only one did it fully while being perfectly good and blameless.

Do you see how his death is different?

As an all-knowing, all-loving, omnipotent perfect being... he created everything, right? So presumably, he would've created every single aspect of human beings--emotions, what we're capable of, etc. So what you're telling me is an infinite being with absolute knowledge who operates outside of time is emotionally affected by something he created on every conceivable level? So, if I program a video game character with the capability of saying "Grr, I fucking hate aiwass, what a jerk!" should I be expected to be heartbroken by something that I've programmed it to be capable of? It just doesn't hold up.

He sacrified himself/his son, longing to save them? From what? Himself? Again, he created everything (according to the religion), including love! Am I supposed to be impressed? Wouldn't he have seen these issues of sin or the fall coming a trillion billion years ad infinitum beforehand? How is an infinite, all-knowing being who, once again, operates outside of the petty concerns of humans, at all impacted by what they do? When does this happen as someone who doesn't exist within the timeline? And again, I go back to the fact that he's a god means that this "sacrifice" is no skin off his nose. Especially since he comes back to life three days later... and then gets to be at God's (himself??) right hand or whatever. Can you really call that "death"?


So yes... I can see how it's different. In that, it's weird, convoluted, and doesn't mean a whole lot. What's more of a sacrifice: you give your life to save your children, meet a gruesome death, and possibly go to Hell for ETERNITY...  OR, be half-god, die for a mere three days, come back to life, and then go to Heaven, all while having millions of people worship you? Are you really telling me the ladder example is more impressive and noble?

Last edited by aiwass - on 21 January 2019

*My signature from 2011 which I'm too lazy to change*

Currently awaiting the arrivals of:
Kid Icarus Uprising
Resident Evil: Revelations
Tekken 3D: Prime Edition
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Beyond the Labyrinth
Heroes of Ruin
Luigi's Mansion 2

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padib said: 
I disagree with your point of view in general not because I think you're wrong, but because I think you're side-stepping my answer to your question. You may question the nobility of what he did, you may disagree with the notion, but you can't deny that it's different from the selfless cases you were referring to in your first remark. Whether you agree with the whole premise or not, you can't assume that what Jesus did is equal to what other selfless humans when they died for a cause. That's basically all I wanted to point out, if you are willing to accept it.

I don't see how it's at all relevant. I'm not sidestepping it, I simply chose not to address it because whether or not it's different is completely superfluous. It is different, but that does not equate to it being better, more noble, or most importantly, true.

I see people try to defend or hold up the story's difference from other myths as somehow lending credence to it. Sure, it's a little different from some other religions, but I think Mormonism is pretty unique with its sacred garments (underwear?) and Buddhism is pretty different with the Buddha being a goal to strive toward rather than being an actual savior. Most religions have their own unique features, what's your point?

padib said: 
Do I think what he did is more noble? I am not God to be able to judge such things but what I can say is that, in my limited opinion, I believe God did it to declare his love, as strange as it may seem to you he did it to make a statement and manifest his love. It may be difficult to conceive what that might actually be, but if you are truly a seeker I'm sure deep within yourself you may be able to find an answer. If not then pray. imho God himself can reveal his true intent but you need to honestly ask him. They say that the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom, I know that it is no fun but it can be rewarding.

You do realize there are lots of religions, right? What reason would I have to continue to try to convince myself of a belief system with no more evidence or credence on its behalf over any other? I understand that somehow you've been convinced of it, but the same can be said of any of the other religions that exist. It's a form of confirmation bias that makes your particular set of beliefs feel special, but I can tell you that adherents to every religion feel the same way you do. Given that, why should someone with no skin in the game dedicate extra time to your particular set of beliefs? Surely, as an adherent to a belief system which represents the true representation of objective reality, you can easily present data that sets your beliefs apart from all the others.

Last edited by aiwass - on 21 January 2019

*My signature from 2011 which I'm too lazy to change*

Currently awaiting the arrivals of:
Kid Icarus Uprising
Resident Evil: Revelations
Tekken 3D: Prime Edition
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Beyond the Labyrinth
Heroes of Ruin
Luigi's Mansion 2

padib said: 
My point is that I disagreed with your initial remark and explained why I believe it was false. What Jesus did is quite different and to me that in and of itself is important, and means something. I'll be honest and I don't think your approach in the whole question is constructive. I'm not sure that, when you sought, that you were sincere enough to get an answer from God to be fully honest.

No. You are not psychic, you cannot see my inner thoughts, and you do not get to decide what my motives are. When you have to resort to dictating other peoples' reality to suit your own set of beliefs, maybe it's time to look in the mirror and think long and hard about the sincerity and strength of your own belief system. You've admitted that you believe that you couldn't possibly be wrong, so I must be some kind of misguided peasant who doesn't have the same level of access to TRUTH™ as you do. If you're going to resort to this kind of bullshit than I'm afraid you've disqualified yourself from having meaningful conversation. Please come back when you can actually present evidence rather than resorting to snake oil salesmen tactics.



*My signature from 2011 which I'm too lazy to change*

Currently awaiting the arrivals of:
Kid Icarus Uprising
Resident Evil: Revelations
Tekken 3D: Prime Edition
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Beyond the Labyrinth
Heroes of Ruin
Luigi's Mansion 2

Pemalite said:
Eagle367 said:

There are so many fallacies and logical inconsistencies  inthis that I would like to address but I have a life and can't waste my time writing all of them down only to fall on deaf ears and be ignored. So good day, wish I had the free time to cinticonthis discussion but I don't. Just didn't want to leave this high and dry and wanted a proper closure to this

You aren't really providing anything. Enjoy.

FYI. We all have lives and yet still find time to converse on the forum to an appropriate degree.

There's a difference thoith between thoughtful long and carefully constructed dialogue and snappy 2 minute answers like the one I'm giving now. The closed discussion was a serious one in my opinion and requires thought, not quick snappy comebacks. But sometimes I'm more busy and sometimes I'm less, so if I had the time, I would've given an actual reply



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Not sure why anyone would sacrifice themselves for a loser like me.



michael_stutzer said:
Being thankful to a god or any of its sidekicks is always baffling fo me. I am always thankful to my good friends, because they always help me when I am in distress. I am thankful to my doctors, because they help me live a healthier life. I am thankful to my teachers, because they thought me how to read. God did not give me anything that I need. I did not exist. I was fine. He gave me a life with financial difficulties, health problems, an environment riddled with wars and I know for a fact that I have it much better than most. What is there to be thankful about, I wonder.

If anything , he should be thankful as we brought some joy to his lonely life. He should work much harder to please us.

Get a refund from your teachers.