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Forums - Sony Discussion - Is Sony saving VR?

It seems to me that many people are in the console gaming "bubble", and don't really see what's going on outside of that ecosystem. With no awareness of Steam's VR support, it might seem that PSVR is the only option, but that's just not the case. Sony doesn't offer any hardware for enthusiasts. The PSVR is the most barebones VR kit you can get.

Note: Before clicking to post my reply I had to go and make sure that this wasn't a thread from three years ago that got bumped.



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RaptorChrist said:
It seems to me that many people are in the console gaming "bubble", and don't really see what's going on outside of that ecosystem. With no awareness of Steam's VR support, it might seem that PSVR is the only option, but that's just not the case. Sony doesn't offer any hardware for enthusiasts. The PSVR is the most barebones VR kit you can get.

Note: Before clicking to post my reply I had to go and make sure that this wasn't a thread from three years ago that got bumped.

Did you also made sure to check that Sony have more than 50% of the marketshare on gaming VR?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

I agree with all your points. But I would say that 2 things are missing for they to really put AAA game exclusive on VR even considering they are willing to lose money. The display/processing needs to get much higher so they can have high level graphics plus they need a concept that would be "revolutionary" game so it become a system seller by itself.

That will probably be more likely to happen on start of next gen.

Display resolution and high level graphics are not the biggest problem. Switch is doing really well.

Convenience, comfort and price need to be solved first. Wireless if possible, lighter, inside out tracking all go before resolution. I would love PSVR2 to have a 4K panel, yet a 1440p panel will do fine as well and is probably more realistic. Perhaps Sony can improve their temporal reprojection to double frame rate to 120fps. Currently it only does that for head tracking, yet if it's build into the gpu it might be possible to double frame rate of the actual game, just as checkerboarding does it for resolution.

When the ps5 can run games in native 4K, then it should be less of a problem to run the same game in VR in 1440p when using hardware accelerated reprojection techniques. Add foveated rendering and results could even be better. However that will need accurate pupil tracking which can drive up the price.

I think it's still too early to hope for AAA exclusives for PSVR2. What we can hope for is more competent VR modes for other AAA games. Next gen racers should really include a fully fletched VR mode. Same for FPS and horror games.



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

I agree with all your points. But I would say that 2 things are missing for they to really put AAA game exclusive on VR even considering they are willing to lose money. The display/processing needs to get much higher so they can have high level graphics plus they need a concept that would be "revolutionary" game so it become a system seller by itself.

That will probably be more likely to happen on start of next gen.

Display resolution and high level graphics are not the biggest problem. Switch is doing really well.

Convenience, comfort and price need to be solved first. Wireless if possible, lighter, inside out tracking all go before resolution. I would love PSVR2 to have a 4K panel, yet a 1440p panel will do fine as well and is probably more realistic. Perhaps Sony can improve their temporal reprojection to double frame rate to 120fps. Currently it only does that for head tracking, yet if it's build into the gpu it might be possible to double frame rate of the actual game, just as checkerboarding does it for resolution.

When the ps5 can run games in native 4K, then it should be less of a problem to run the same game in VR in 1440p when using hardware accelerated reprojection techniques. Add foveated rendering and results could even be better. However that will need accurate pupil tracking which can drive up the price.

I think it's still too early to hope for AAA exclusives for PSVR2. What we can hope for is more competent VR modes for other AAA games. Next gen racers should really include a fully fletched VR mode. Same for FPS and horror games.

Switch doesn't give you an equivalent to 300" screen glued to your face where 1080p you can see the individual pixels on very large size.

And don't forget Switch have much less AAA than X1 or PS4, when going the AAA route you usually look for the highest possible graphics, and while PSVR is great it is still a lot below the current IQ.

Like why would you invest a lot of money (AAA) to make an eye candy if the HW can't process and display it? RE7 is fantastic, but on PSVR it doesn't look like it really should.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

I agree with all your points. But I would say that 2 things are missing for they to really put AAA game exclusive on VR even considering they are willing to lose money. The display/processing needs to get much higher so they can have high level graphics plus they need a concept that would be "revolutionary" game so it become a system seller by itself.

That will probably be more likely to happen on start of next gen.

Display resolution and high level graphics are not the biggest problem. Switch is doing really well.

Convenience, comfort and price need to be solved first. Wireless if possible, lighter, inside out tracking all go before resolution. I would love PSVR2 to have a 4K panel, yet a 1440p panel will do fine as well and is probably more realistic. Perhaps Sony can improve their temporal reprojection to double frame rate to 120fps. Currently it only does that for head tracking, yet if it's build into the gpu it might be possible to double frame rate of the actual game, just as checkerboarding does it for resolution.

When the ps5 can run games in native 4K, then it should be less of a problem to run the same game in VR in 1440p when using hardware accelerated reprojection techniques. Add foveated rendering and results could even be better. However that will need accurate pupil tracking which can drive up the price.

I think it's still too early to hope for AAA exclusives for PSVR2. What we can hope for is more competent VR modes for other AAA games. Next gen racers should really include a fully fletched VR mode. Same for FPS and horror games.

I actually think Software is still the biggest problem. Even in its current form, if you give VR the next Call of Duty, Battlefield, Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Killzone, Gran Turismo, Forza, Halo, and Mario Kart exclusively, then it would become mainstream over night. VR is still lacking exclusive games that the mainstream audience plays. Once these mega franchises push VR, their userbases will jump all over it. 

Next gen at a minimum Sony has to offer the ability to play all of their 1st paty games in VR. I'm not talking full VR features, but at minimum the ability to put on your headset, and have the game rendered in VR, not just cinema mode. 

Next, they have to lead by example, and have some of their AAA franchises go VR exclusive. Horizon and Killzone would both be great options. Both games could have massive improvements to gameplay, that is just not possible on a TV/Gamepad. Gran Turismo should be fully playable 100% content for content betwee VR and TV, if not some exclusive VR only content to highlight the advantages of the tech. MLB The Show, Road to the Show, this is an absolutely perfect showcase of the tech. Then of course they have their dedicated VR studio in Manchester. London Studios is always pushing innovation, a return of the Getaway franchise in VR would be massive, though Blood and Truth means that would probably be a few years into the PS5/PSVR2. If they can get the ball rolling, that would give confidence to both players and publishers alike. 

Finally, they need to sign some deal with 3rd parties again. Both for full on exclusives, and VR Modes. Some of the obvious titles to me are, Call of Duty, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Grand Theft Auto 6.

Call of Duty has 3 different Studios working on (1) title each, over a (3) year period. Sony, along with HTC, Facebook, and the rest of the VR industry, should make a push for a VR COD from one of these teams. Together they could easily fund development, and with Call of Duty in VR, they would gain enough sales of each of their headsets to more than justify the investment. 

Red Dead Remeption 2, this should go down just like GTA5 on PS4/XBO. a full 4K/60fps remaster of RDR2 for PS5/XB4 with VR offered as a massive bonus. Hopefully, Mirosoft will have a VR option for XB4, giving this and the above COD even further reach. 

Grand Theft Auto 6, with their expereince of bringing RDR2 to PS5/PSVR2, GTA6 should be a full fledged VR title from the ground up. Gameplay that is only possible with Motion Controls, in VR. 

 

If Sony, Microsoft, Facebook, HTC, Rockstar, Activision, EA, Ubisoft, and the rest of the industry back VR with the software it needs, they will succeed on a major level. VR will outpace traditional video games many times over, because it is a much further reaching technology. 

I don't think anyone can argue, that Sony is taking charge in VR. They are doing the heavy lifting, with the most marketing, and the most direct to consumer approach. However, that has to go even further with PS5/PSVR2. They have to invest more, give VR more big name exclusives, and get 3rd parties on board to do the same. 

If Sony doubles down with PSVR2, and does the above, then I will say they are leading and continueing to lead the charge in VR.

Overall though, VR does not need saving. VR is the future. Once the right software is made available, and the intial bump in take off is over, VR will be the next boom in the electronics industry. No matter whether you like games, education, or anything in life for that matter. If you have a desire to live, VR is for you, because it can deliver any expereince you can dream of wanting to have, real of fantasy. 



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

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Rumours of biodlshock vr. Hopefully on psvr.



KBG29 said:
SvennoJ said:

Display resolution and high level graphics are not the biggest problem. Switch is doing really well.

Convenience, comfort and price need to be solved first. Wireless if possible, lighter, inside out tracking all go before resolution. I would love PSVR2 to have a 4K panel, yet a 1440p panel will do fine as well and is probably more realistic. Perhaps Sony can improve their temporal reprojection to double frame rate to 120fps. Currently it only does that for head tracking, yet if it's build into the gpu it might be possible to double frame rate of the actual game, just as checkerboarding does it for resolution.

When the ps5 can run games in native 4K, then it should be less of a problem to run the same game in VR in 1440p when using hardware accelerated reprojection techniques. Add foveated rendering and results could even be better. However that will need accurate pupil tracking which can drive up the price.

I think it's still too early to hope for AAA exclusives for PSVR2. What we can hope for is more competent VR modes for other AAA games. Next gen racers should really include a fully fletched VR mode. Same for FPS and horror games.

I actually think Software is still the biggest problem. Even in its current form, if you give VR the next Call of Duty, Battlefield, Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Killzone, Gran Turismo, Forza, Halo, and Mario Kart exclusively, then it would become mainstream over night. VR is still lacking exclusive games that the mainstream audience plays. Once these mega franchises push VR, their userbases will jump all over it. 

Next gen at a minimum Sony has to offer the ability to play all of their 1st paty games in VR. I'm not talking full VR features, but at minimum the ability to put on your headset, and have the game rendered in VR, not just cinema mode. 

Next, they have to lead by example, and have some of their AAA franchises go VR exclusive. Horizon and Killzone would both be great options. Both games could have massive improvements to gameplay, that is just not possible on a TV/Gamepad. Gran Turismo should be fully playable 100% content for content betwee VR and TV, if not some exclusive VR only content to highlight the advantages of the tech. MLB The Show, Road to the Show, this is an absolutely perfect showcase of the tech. Then of course they have their dedicated VR studio in Manchester. London Studios is always pushing innovation, a return of the Getaway franchise in VR would be massive, though Blood and Truth means that would probably be a few years into the PS5/PSVR2. If they can get the ball rolling, that would give confidence to both players and publishers alike. 

Finally, they need to sign some deal with 3rd parties again. Both for full on exclusives, and VR Modes. Some of the obvious titles to me are, Call of Duty, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Grand Theft Auto 6.

Call of Duty has 3 different Studios working on (1) title each, over a (3) year period. Sony, along with HTC, Facebook, and the rest of the VR industry, should make a push for a VR COD from one of these teams. Together they could easily fund development, and with Call of Duty in VR, they would gain enough sales of each of their headsets to more than justify the investment. 

Red Dead Remeption 2, this should go down just like GTA5 on PS4/XBO. a full 4K/60fps remaster of RDR2 for PS5/XB4 with VR offered as a massive bonus. Hopefully, Mirosoft will have a VR option for XB4, giving this and the above COD even further reach. 

Grand Theft Auto 6, with their expereince of bringing RDR2 to PS5/PSVR2, GTA6 should be a full fledged VR title from the ground up. Gameplay that is only possible with Motion Controls, in VR. 

 

If Sony, Microsoft, Facebook, HTC, Rockstar, Activision, EA, Ubisoft, and the rest of the industry back VR with the software it needs, they will succeed on a major level. VR will outpace traditional video games many times over, because it is a much further reaching technology. 

I don't think anyone can argue, that Sony is taking charge in VR. They are doing the heavy lifting, with the most marketing, and the most direct to consumer approach. However, that has to go even further with PS5/PSVR2. They have to invest more, give VR more big name exclusives, and get 3rd parties on board to do the same. 

If Sony doubles down with PSVR2, and does the above, then I will say they are leading and continueing to lead the charge in VR.

Overall though, VR does not need saving. VR is the future. Once the right software is made available, and the intial bump in take off is over, VR will be the next boom in the electronics industry. No matter whether you like games, education, or anything in life for that matter. If you have a desire to live, VR is for you, because it can deliver any expereince you can dream of wanting to have, real of fantasy. 

Sometimes what you say doesn't make any sense for a business. They would make a 20M seller exclusive to a platform of 3M and hope that 17M people buy it just to play that game?

Making some new IP for PSVR would be very good to have an AAA level, but making the biggest seller go exclusive on VR would be bonkers loss. Even more when one game wouldn't solve it, and you suggested multiple games going that route. That would cost some Billions and probably nowhere near the result you expect.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Switch doesn't give you an equivalent to 300" screen glued to your face where 1080p you can see the individual pixels on very large size.

And don't forget Switch have much less AAA than X1 or PS4, when going the AAA route you usually look for the highest possible graphics, and while PSVR is great it is still a lot below the current IQ.

Like why would you invest a lot of money (AAA) to make an eye candy if the HW can't process and display it? RE7 is fantastic, but on PSVR it doesn't look like it really should.

It can show the detail at a lower resolution though. Make the resolution too high and you have to drop the eye candy to get it to run on psvr2.

At some point VR with foveated rendering will surpass flat screen rendering. The higher the resolution, the lower the cost to render it in VR. The problem is cheap, reliable eye tracking. Perhaps psvr can get two versions, a 1440p wired version and a 4K wireless pro version with pupil tracking. With foveated rendering the 4K version shouldn't cost more GPU power than the 1440p version, if the hardware is optimized for that.

This gen foveated rendering doesn't make sense yet as the resolution is already at the low end. However the current resolution is high enough for your peripheral vision, so you only need to render higher resolutions in a 10 degree or even smaller cone where you are currently looking. It just drives up the price which is the more important factor atm than fancier graphics. However that will make it easier to get games to run in VR without many compromises.

I don't know what RE7 should look like. I only played it in VR for over 60 hours. Some cut scenes were in 2D and looked more detailed, however they also looked like crap compared to the VR version of the game.

The best Sony can do for next gen is make sure it is easy to get games to run in VR. Hoping for exclusive AAA budget games is not realistic imo. It makes as much sense as exclusive ps4 pro or X1X games.



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Switch doesn't give you an equivalent to 300" screen glued to your face where 1080p you can see the individual pixels on very large size.

And don't forget Switch have much less AAA than X1 or PS4, when going the AAA route you usually look for the highest possible graphics, and while PSVR is great it is still a lot below the current IQ.

Like why would you invest a lot of money (AAA) to make an eye candy if the HW can't process and display it? RE7 is fantastic, but on PSVR it doesn't look like it really should.

It can show the detail at a lower resolution though. Make the resolution too high and you have to drop the eye candy to get it to run on psvr2.

At some point VR with foveated rendering will surpass flat screen rendering. The higher the resolution, the lower the cost to render it in VR. The problem is cheap, reliable eye tracking. Perhaps psvr can get two versions, a 1440p wired version and a 4K wireless pro version with pupil tracking. With foveated rendering the 4K version shouldn't cost more GPU power than the 1440p version, if the hardware is optimized for that.

This gen foveated rendering doesn't make sense yet as the resolution is already at the low end. However the current resolution is high enough for your peripheral vision, so you only need to render higher resolutions in a 10 degree or even smaller cone where you are currently looking. It just drives up the price which is the more important factor atm than fancier graphics. However that will make it easier to get games to run in VR without many compromises.

I don't know what RE7 should look like. I only played it in VR for over 60 hours. Some cut scenes were in 2D and looked more detailed, however they also looked like crap compared to the VR version of the game.

The best Sony can do for next gen is make sure it is easy to get games to run in VR. Hoping for exclusive AAA budget games is not realistic imo. It makes as much sense as exclusive ps4 pro or X1X games.

Talking about PSVR on the seeing the pixels... PSVR2 will probably have higher resolution on the same price HW (even if for movie watching) and quite possible over PS3 perceived graphics with some games nearing PS4.

Also PSVR is a market that could do with a Premium version even if most would be for movie but considering sales of Oculus and Vive perhaps there wouldn't be much market for the premium.

Graphic of RE7 wasn't really the strongest point of the game, but the VR made it look uglier even if more immersive (much more) and aiming was fantastic.

Sony is the type of company together with perhaps old S-E that would be crazy enough to go AAA on something like this.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."