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dark_gh0st_b0y said:

Ursula knows it's a matter of life and death and is acting desperate to save as many lives as possible, as any leader would do

AZ prioritized the UK over the EU when it couldn't keep up production but they could have balanced things out - probably did not because most EU countries do not trust the AZ and leave it as last resort, still it wouldn't make much difference for the EU as a whole, EU population almost 7x the UK

also the EU is following a different tactic, fully vaccinating the old and vulnerable first, while the UK has already half-vaccinated half the adult population

I think the matter is exaggerated to make UK seem super successful after Brexit and the EU look stupid, but I don't think it will make much difference when it's all said and done

the forever doomed and gloomed in British eyes, and always "about to break-up" eurozone :/



Nice screenshot you got there, with two articles from a website that is ever so slightly less reliable than the guardian. She's not acting desperate, she's deluded. 

And what is your point, really? the UK decided in early last year that they wanted to secure their own deals with vaccines manufacturers, broke the mold with the one-shot strategy, and not budged to the EU veil threats. All sound decisions, if anything, the EU can benefit by following our footsteps soon adopt our vaccination tactic. 



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LurkerJ said:

Nice screenshot you got there, with two articles from a website that is ever so slightly less reliable than the guardian. She's not acting desperate, she's deluded. 

And what is your point, really? the UK decided in early last year that they wanted to secure their own deals with vaccines manufacturers, broke the mold with the one-shot strategy, and not budged to the EU veil threats. All sound decisions, if anything, the EU can benefit by following our footsteps soon adopt our vaccination tactic. 


my point is the overall matter is exaggerated in the UK to support Brexit, talked more than in the EU itself

anyhow it is much easier for companies to keep up with production for UK demand rather than 7x bigger EU demand 

the UK is doing a great job with vaccination, no doubt, and I just found out that 'express' readers share has droppped to 7%, good sign!

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

Pyro as Bill said:
JRPGfan said:

The UK has vaccinated 24 million people.
9 million of those vaccines were made inside the EU, and shipped to the UK.

Meanwhile the UK isn't allowing any of the vaccines it makes to be shipped abroad, even when theres deals in place to buy said vaccines.
...
Like why should the EU be the only one to play by the rules?
When other nations are perfectly fine, with not allowing vaccines to be shipped out of their terratories?

Charles Michel had to backtrack after telling the same lies you are telling. Will you do the same?

Oxford invented a vaccine 1/10th the cost of the nearest competitor and promised to provide it to everyone with no profit during the pandemic. If it was up to me, the EU wouldn't be getting any of the Oxford vaccine. The UK should be getting 100% of the first 140m doses. We should have ensured all of the vaccine was produced in a country that can be trusted even if it meant rollout took longer.

At the bolded part: Source?

Also, Oxford invented that vaccine... but they did so in cooperation with Astra, the Swedish part of AstraZeneca. Oxford themselves wouldn't have been able to do it without access to their facilities. The vaccine is a product of UK-EU cooperation, if you like it or not.

Also, the UK should have gotten 100% of the first 140M doses? You are aware that over half of those are getting produced in the EU, right? So in short, you want the EU to help develop the vaccine, produce it for you, ship it free of charge and give the EU a kick in the arse for helping develop the vaccine and producing it for you and expect them not to raise their voice in protest?

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 21 March 2021

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
LurkerJ said:

Nice screenshot you got there, with two articles from a website that is ever so slightly less reliable than the guardian. She's not acting desperate, she's deluded. 

And what is your point, really? the UK decided in early last year that they wanted to secure their own deals with vaccines manufacturers, broke the mold with the one-shot strategy, and not budged to the EU veil threats. All sound decisions, if anything, the EU can benefit by following our footsteps soon adopt our vaccination tactic. 


my point is the overall matter is exaggerated in the UK to support Brexit, talked more than in the EU itself

anyhow it is much easier for companies to keep up with production for UK demand rather than 7x bigger EU demand 

the UK is doing a great job with vaccination, no doubt, and I just found out that 'express' readers share has droppped to 7%, good sign!

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit

The matter is exaggerated? It's a way two street, if the guardian jumps on every opportunity to call Brexit a failure (Ed Sheeran has to do some paper work before touring now, the horror), you will get outlets that will do their best to celebrate the UK vaccine program success. Moreover, the EU is the one responsible for why this keeps making the news cycles. From downplaying how effective AZ is (quasi ineffective? a description more suited to Macron's policies), the Irish border debacle, the heavy PR campaign to paint AZ in a bad light whenever possible (in the hopes other countries cancel their orders? who knows), to threatening to block vaccine exports just because AZ is abiding by the rules of the contract they singed with the UK and other countries.

Notice how most of EU decisions don't involve taking AZ to courts, it speaks volumes about what's going on. No one outside of the EU media is backing their childishness anyway, and the dispute will soon involve other countries like Australia. You say it doesn't matter in the end because everyone will catch up, and I and the New York Times agree, but go ahead tell it the EU?

We're hardly the ones throwing tantrums here, the implication that the UK had to be involved in foul play to be prioritised by AZ is heavily rejected and has no basis whatsoever. It's just like the New York times article said, the EU isn't in terrible position, they'll get there by the summer, but their moaning can only be explained that the fact that they're just really stung watching the UK succeed.

Not to mention, dumbing it down to "production is finalised in the EU, it's an EU product" is like saying the iPhone and iOS are Chinese products, silly. This is business, you sign contracts and you get what you paid for when it's time for you to get it. The UK isn't the only country that are getting the vaccines produced in the EU before Europeans, but you don't hear about it because the EU media is hell bent on selling a lie that the UK is cheating their way in the vaccine race, and judging by the comments above, it's working  

Hope the EU keeps this up, the remainers in my circle are disgusted by the union for once, Scottish polls are swinging in the right direction now  

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 21 March 2021

as I said before it is a mater of life and death, the difference won't be much but they are trying to save as many EU citizen lives as possible

Brexit-supporting news sources will take any opportunity to present Brexit as a success, hoping that people will forget about the unnecessary deaths from 2020, it seems to be working :/

the anti-EU brainwashing has been in the making the last 2 decades, leading to Brexit, belittling every EU success and exaggerating every failure, and success that could not be belittled was presented as UK government success, the trend didn't change much

don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of the guardian, I am a Christian conservative person myself and I love the 90s UK with its culture and values, I just don't believe that Brexit will bring back any of it



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

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LurkerJ said:

pfizer has warned the European Union to back down from its threat to block vaccines to the UK because the firm “heavily” depends on the country for vital ingredients. Pfizer and its partner, BioNTech, have told Brussels that the UK has the power to retaliate by withholding raw and crucial materials needed for its jab, the Telegraph reports. “They [Pfizer/BioNTech] told the commission that if the UK shuts down the lipids then the whole process grinds to a halt in weeks,” the source added.

-------------

The EU keeps throwing tantrums and overplaying its hand, I am embarrassed for Ursula, it's gotten pathetic. 

"She criticised AstraZeneca on Wednesday for having underproduced and underdelivered to the bloc and said the EU will consider halting vaccine exports to countries with higher coverage rates than its own."

surely her logic must also mean the EU should divert supplies from themselves to countries with lower vaccination rates until everyone is on an equal footing... lol. Get bent, Ursula. 

Flinten-Uschi (that's her nickname in central Europe because of her embarrassing mismanagement in the defense ministry) is a member of Germany's biggest political party, the CDU. Said party currently sees everything blow up in their face and the only thing they are good at is shift the blame to someone else, because a large chunk of Germany's citizens are willing to eat it up.

It's also worth noting that the EU parlament is widely perceived as a place where unuseful politicians get sent, so basically some form of gentle retirement. That's why it's not really a surprise that the EU's vaccination strategy is poorly organized and thought through. Too much of it has been in German hands and that was also one of the core reasons why the UK wanted a Brexit in the first place; the idea that European countries form a united trading block to have an easier time staying independent from world powers like the USA, Russia and China is sound, but the Germans seizing leadership of this block where their own interests commonly dictate policies to the disadvantage of other countries within the block makes the whole thing worse than it ever needed to be.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Charles Michel had to backtrack after telling the same lies you are telling. Will you do the same?

Oxford invented a vaccine 1/10th the cost of the nearest competitor and promised to provide it to everyone with no profit during the pandemic. If it was up to me, the EU wouldn't be getting any of the Oxford vaccine. The UK should be getting 100% of the first 140m doses. We should have ensured all of the vaccine was produced in a country that can be trusted even if it meant rollout took longer.

At the bolded part: Source?

Also, Oxford invented that vaccine... but they did so in cooperation with Astra, the Swedish part of AstraZeneca. Oxford themselves wouldn't have been able to do it without access to their facilities. The vaccine is a product of UK-EU cooperation, if you like it or not.

Also, the UK should have gotten 100% of the first 140M doses? You are aware that over half of those are getting produced in the EU, right? So in short, you want the EU to help develop the vaccine, produce it for you, ship it free of charge and give the EU a kick in the arse for helping develop the vaccine and producing it for you and expect them not to raise their voice in protest?

"But he also noted “different ways of imposing bans or restrictions on vaccines/medicines,” backtracking from his original unequivocal accusation in favor of a more muddled complaint."

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-hits-out-at-eu-over-claim-it-has-banned-vaccine-exports/

The UK and EU didn't invent or produce anything. If AZ didn't agree to Oxford's terms, Oxford would have chosen someone else to work with.



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Pyro as Bill said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

At the bolded part: Source?

Also, Oxford invented that vaccine... but they did so in cooperation with Astra, the Swedish part of AstraZeneca. Oxford themselves wouldn't have been able to do it without access to their facilities. The vaccine is a product of UK-EU cooperation, if you like it or not.

Also, the UK should have gotten 100% of the first 140M doses? You are aware that over half of those are getting produced in the EU, right? So in short, you want the EU to help develop the vaccine, produce it for you, ship it free of charge and give the EU a kick in the arse for helping develop the vaccine and producing it for you and expect them not to raise their voice in protest?

"But he also noted “different ways of imposing bans or restrictions on vaccines/medicines,” backtracking from his original unequivocal accusation in favor of a more muddled complaint."

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-hits-out-at-eu-over-claim-it-has-banned-vaccine-exports/

The UK and EU didn't invent or produce anything. If AZ didn't agree to Oxford's terms, Oxford would have chosen someone else to work with.

That bolded part is factually wrong. Over half the doses of the AstraZeneca Vaccine are produced outside of the UK in Belgium and the Netherlands. The Belgian production partner, Novastep, is actually responsible for some of the production delays as it's yields are lower than expected.

Also, if AZ wouldn't have agreed, someone else would have been chosen... but who else in the UK would be big enough and and have the necessary facilities to produce the vaccine en masse? Maybe then they would have needed to choose an European company with no ties in the UK and those wouldn't have sent 9M+ doses to the UK. You present it as if it wouldn't have changed anything, but for the UK, chances would have been that the outcome of a deal with another company would have been much worse for the UK.



Pyro as Bill said:
JRPGfan said:

The UK has vaccinated 24 million people.
9 million of those vaccines were made inside the EU, and shipped to the UK.

Meanwhile the UK isn't allowing any of the vaccines it makes to be shipped abroad, even when theres deals in place to buy said vaccines.
...
Like why should the EU be the only one to play by the rules?
When other nations are perfectly fine, with not allowing vaccines to be shipped out of their terratories?

Charles Michel had to backtrack after telling the same lies you are telling. Will you do the same?

Oxford invented a vaccine 1/10th the cost of the nearest competitor and promised to provide it to everyone with no profit during the pandemic. If it was up to me, the EU wouldn't be getting any of the Oxford vaccine. The UK should be getting 100% of the first 140m doses. We should have ensured all of the vaccine was produced in a country that can be trusted even if it meant rollout took longer.

This is the truth.
Az vaccine has production in europe, and some of it is shipped back to the UK.
Meanwhile, of the production of AZ in the UK, 0 of it has been shipped accross borders by the UK, it doesnt allow this.
The only reason AZ is able to sell them to the EU, is because it buildt the needed fabrication in the EU to do so.

Who invented (where the company is located) or who invested (both did, about the same time too), doesn't really matter towards what I'm saying.

The truth of the matter is the UK doesnt allow any vaccines produced in the UK, to be exported.
Meanwhile the EU, does, and has shipped over 9m vaccines to the UK.

UK has vaccinated 24m people.
Without the EU being nice to the UK, that number would only be 15m.
(if the EU acted the same way the UK did, it would not have gotten those 9m vaccines)

Now for some reason, you seem to think its okay for the UK to act one way, but not okay for others to act the same way towards the UK.
Double standards much?

Why does the UK always play the victim, and act like the EU are villians?

EU is thinking about acting the way the UK is (not allowing vaccines to be shipped outsides their borders)
"OMG the EU are villians! only we the UK have the right to act this way!"

One is actually already doing this (the UK), while the other is just thinking about it (the EU).
And the bad guy in all this is obviously the EU? who has been overlooking their own citizens plight to help other countries get their vaccines.



Last edited by JRPGfan - on 23 March 2021

JRPGfan said:



The truth of the matter is the UK doesnt allow any vaccines produced in the UK, to be exported.
Meanwhile the EU, does, and has shipped over 9m vaccines to the UK.



When will you stop spreading FUD?

The UK contract obligates AZ to give the UK priority over the first X million of doses through production facilities in both the UK and the EU. The EU contract doesn't make similar promises and does not prioritise the EU because guess what? AZ could only give the priority once to one buyer, first come first serve basis and the UK was first, that's what priority means after all.

The EU was looking for cheap deals, the UK was looking for the best deal. No fishy business here. 

Moreover, the UK doesn't prohibit vaccines from being shipped out, a lie. The reason why it looks this way is because the contract we signed forces AZ to serve the UK first, as a result, 0 vaccines were shipped from the UK to the EU because we're still the priority customer by the laws of the contract we singed, so we also get vaccines from the EU as AZ knows that whatever it signed with the UK is legally binding.

The USA made similar deals with its vaccines maker, promised them deregulation and funding and signed early contracts that obligate them to serve the USA first, so the USA produced vaccines aren't being shipped out, shocker. 

On other hand, the EU contract doesn't obligate AZ to give the EU the same premium treatment that we got, as AZ naturally promised the EU it will try with "best reasonable efforts" as AZ can only do after making legal commitments to the UK. That's why AZ isn't worried about going to court nor the EU is trying make this into a legal battle. 

Playing the victim you say..... The EU wants the UK/USA-like premium service without actually making the effort to get that sort of service. It wants to sell its people the lie that the vaccines produced in Europe are making their out of the continent because of the EU kindness and not because of their terrible laughable late deals. It also wants you to believe that the UK is actively stopping the vaccines from being shipped out when in fact, we're just reaping the reward of signing contracts quickly and swiftly. 

Between the UK and EU, only one of them is actively stopping the vaccines from being shipped out with political interference, and it's not us, we only want what we paid and signed for. The EU wants what it didn't pay for and they're trying to get it by force, it's borderline dictatorial.

And just like Flinten-Uschi (thanks Rol), you're crying "injustice" when in fact, you're behind because the EU was looking for Black Friday deals from vaccine makers, then you dare accuse the UK playing the victim when we're literally minding our own business