JRPGfan said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
Im disappointed. Its been years already and there are still medicine at the pharmacy, food at the supermarket and the super ghonorreia outbreak havent happenned yet. And pre covid 19 uk economy was pretty much alright with record low unemployment rate while everybody said it woukd bebfacing the worst recession ever. The city would be dismantled and all banks would run away.
There must be something wrong...

Theres a transition periode until dec 31st 2020.
UK is currently enjoying the same rules and laws, its had since it was a member of the EU.

Its first from Jan 1st 2021, that your expected to do things your own way.
Also why do you suspect there will be shortages of medicines? and foods?

WTO rules will apply, and you ll just have to buy them at slightly higher prices.

DirtyP2002 said:
The Brexit will be a huge step for Scotland. They will vote to become independent and join the EU.

The EU is not perfect, but a united and free Europe is the best idea we have ever had.

UK alone just does not have the possibilities to negotiate with China or the USA on the same level.

Look how this current trade war is going. Sure, this is mostly between China and the US right now, but Europe was affected as well.

Any counter trade tariffs by the UK would just not matter on the big picture. But when the whole continent is acting together, it will have an impact. The UK just let that go.

US has already made it clear, it will bend over the UK in trade negotiations. America 1st! Not just a empty slogan with Trump.
China? well after the "uk hong kong citizenship" thingy, china probably isn't feeling too generous with the UK.

Food and Medicine shortages could happen, but for a specific reason: Currently the UK has only very limited infrastructure for customs checks. But once the transition period is over, everything would need to be checked at the borders. Unless the UK severly ramps up the infrastructure and workforce there stante pede, then imports will have to wait longer at the borders until the checks are processed and will pile up and get delayed as a result.

As for UK's trade deals and how easy they thought to get them, it really seems like they still believe they are that giant british colonial Empire that they were 100 years ago. But they don't anymore, and are much, much, much weaker than they think they are. Hence why most countries don't have new trade deals with the UK yet



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EnricoPallazzo said:
JRPGfan said:

A song that mentions ignoreing your own financial experts saying its a horrible idea, that will have bad consequences.
Makes fun people being against such, and sings:

"The British told them to fuck off. Seventeen million fuck-offs."

Thats not funny, thats scary as fack.


Stupid is, as stupid does... I guess.
This is like how 33% of americans think Trump is still doing a fantastic job, of dealing with the corona virus.

Like how? how are there so many people support these things?
I believe time will tell..... but even if the UK economy shrinks by like 20-30% over the comeing years, and Scotland gets its independence, or NI is reunited.... somehow there will still be some saying that brexit was the right thing to do.

its not scary, the song is exactly about people being able to decide their future even with most of theboress putting you under project fear to decide otherwise. To call you racist because you want brexit. That say old people should not vote because its not their future. That wants to shame you and put you in the wrong side of history hecause you think different. That wants to shame you because you are against open borders. And too all that the british said fuck off.

Twice as in the recent elections the conservatives had a major victory.

A LOT of english people dont care about scotland getting independance, they see it more as an annoyance to have this discussion all the time and really dont care if they follow their own path, as long as england can stop sending them money.

There is another side of this story than what is shown at bbc, the guardian and social media.

You think its freeing, that if theres enough stupid in society, that they can vote for something thats against their own self intrest.
It proves you live in free society! yah! we're not actually surpressed by the elites that claim to know better.

My take it, is its scary theres so much stupid in society.


Project fear? could you watch the 4 videos below and give your comments on them please?
Are these brexit politicans heroes of freedom? or the stupid, leading other stupid along as sheep, to jump off a cliff?

JRPGfan said:

Pyro as Bill.

So just ignore facts and reality, and talk about the "greatness" of a once upon a time, GB?
(the past is the past, we re talking the next 25-50 years here instead)

80% of GDP for the UK is Financial & services, that they mainly get from Europe.
The not getting a free trade agrement with EU (ei. just hard crashing into WTO rules) will mean you risk loseing large quantities of that.

Remember the brexiteers used to call all this stuff "Project Fear"?
(ofc EU wouldn't risk UK leaveing without a deal, and will make sure some form of free trade agreement is given, EU needs UK, more than it needs them, they will bend over if push comes to shove)

Reality?
EU has been saying the same thing over and over, and the UK just ignores it.
UK is basically gambleing with its economy, hopeing the EU saves them from themselves (and it doesnt look like this will happend).
Its just driveing the car towards the cliff edge, and intending to go over it.


Reality :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nho2oyWsroc



(UK trade secretary leaked letter, in a panic of how things will turn out)
(border infrastructure wont be ready, until april/july of 2021. Smuggleing + legal trouoble with WTO to come from this. This comes from your own Trade secretary)

*also this is "disaster for firms tradeing within the EU" (by her words). Apparently this "half year" long gap without anything in place will hurt businesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOqhhx4xAmg

Mark Francois writes a mocking letter to EU, to score points amoung brexit voters.
Michel Barnier replies in a very diplomatic way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brXZU4iKhfg

(incompetence and curruption)


UK decides it wont use EU satilites for military and such, to get its own.
Only issue? it bought the wrong type of satalites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kui7R3MOhRY

We re Great Britain, we dont need the EU.
And i ll prove it, by getting our own nav satilites! Procedes to spend a ton of money, on something not able to do what it was supposed to do.


I'd like your take on these things.
Do you still see it all as just "project fear" ?



Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?



EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Brexit = we dont want anyone telling us what to do!


"CANZUK is an acronym for the theoretical political and economic union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom as part of an international body similar in scope to the former European Economic Community. This includes increased trade, foreign policy co-operation, military co-operation and mobility of citizens between the four states." - Wikipedia


So working with the EU isnt something the UK wants..... but its okay joining another smaller version seemingly heading the same direction as the EU? by think-tanks.

"Canada, Australia and New Zealand are former settler colonies of the British Empire where people of British ethnic origin came to constitute the majority of the population." - Wikipedia

Okay... so the reason it wants it.... is because in the great old days of the British Empire! things where great, britain ruled the waves and the world.
What are the chances that the UK as the old rulers, won't want "special privilages" like they did in the EU? to join Canzuk? Will CANZUK be the future scapegoat by UK politicans? and then a Brexit 2.0 (with Canzuk) (okay Im jumping too far ahead here).


Thats a hellva spread out empire though.
Canada + Austalia + UK is basically 3 points as far away from each other, on the planet as humanly possible.

Because that makes for fantastic and easy trade.
Why trade with nearby neighbors, when you can travel half way around the world, to do the same?



EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Can't see it as a bad thing. Trade deals between nations is usually beneficial to both specially in business and trade. Political is a little bit more complicated and depend on other factors on the table.



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EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Lets see:

Australia:
(biggest) Imports : Refined petrolium, crude petrolium, cars, delivery trucks, broadcasting equiptment,...
(biggest) exports : Coal, Iron ores, Gold, Copper.

Canada:
(biggest) Imports : Cars, Refined petrolium, delievery trucks, Computers.
(biggest) exports : Crude petrolium, cars, Refinded petrolium, Gold, Vehicle Parts.


Canda benefits alot from trade with Australia:
Alright so already we see that canada + australia makes good sense to trade with one another.
Australia needs cars + petrolium, and Canada has alot of that.
Canada needs iron, and australia has that.

You notice that both countries sell petrolium, and import it.
Both also have gold, exports.  Canada sells cars, and also imports alot of them.

UK:

(biggest) Imports :  Cars, Gold, Refined Petrolium, Crude Petrolium, Packaged medicines.
(biggest) exports :  Cars, Crude Petrolium, Gold, Gas Turbines, Packaged medicines.

Apparently the UK buys alot of gold, and sells it to others.
Same with medicine, it comes in and then goes out.

Australia needs things it doesnt produce itself.
Canada exports alot of the things it needs.

UK? Im not sure where it fits in, but im sure theres things to be traded back and forth between the nations.
Im not sure its some magical fix that ll come anywhere close to what its loseing from leaveing the EU's single market.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 13 July 2020

JRPGfan said:
EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Brexit = we dont want anyone telling us what to do!


"CANZUK is an acronym for the theoretical political and economic union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom as part of an international body similar in scope to the former European Economic Community. This includes increased trade, foreign policy co-operation, military co-operation and mobility of citizens between the four states." - Wikipedia


So working with the EU isnt something the UK wants..... but its okay joining another smaller version seemingly heading the same direction as the EU? by think-tanks.

"Canada, Australia and New Zealand are former settler colonies of the British Empire where people of British ethnic origin came to constitute the majority of the population." - Wikipedia

Okay... so the reason it wants it.... is because in the great old days of the British Empire! things where great, britain ruled the waves and the world.
What are the chances that the UK as the old rulers, won't want "special privilages" like they did in the EU? to join Canzuk? Will CANZUK be the future scapegoat by UK politicans? and then a Brexit 2.0 (with Canzuk) (okay Im jumping too far ahead here).


Thats a hellva spread out empire though.
Canada + Austalia + UK is basically 3 points as far away from each other, on the planet as humanly possible.

Because that makes for fantastic and easy trade.
Why trade with nearby neighbors, when you can travel half way around the world, to do the same?

EnricoPallazzo said:
EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Can't see it as a bad thing. Trade deals between nations is usually beneficial to both specially in business and trade. Political is a little bit more complicated and depend on other factors on the table.

JRPGfan said:
EricHiggin said:

Didn't realize CANZUK was even a thing until today. Would a stronger business, trade, and overall political relationship between a few of the Commonwealth Nations be seen as a good thing for the UK with Brexit?

Lets see:

Australia:
(biggest) Imports : Refined petrolium, crude petrolium, cars, delivery trucks, broadcasting equiptment,...
(biggest) exports : Coal, Iron ores, Gold, Copper.

Canada:
(biggest) Imports : Cars, Refined petrolium, delievery trucks, Computers.
(biggest) exports : Crude petrolium, cars, Refinded petrolium, Gold, Vehicle Parts.


Canda benefits alot from trade with Australia:
Alright so already we see that canada + australia makes good sense to trade with one another.
Australia needs cars + petrolium, and Canada has alot of that.
Canada needs iron, and australia has that.

You notice that both countries sell petrolium, and import it.
Both also have gold, exports.  Canada sells cars, and also imports alot of them.

UK:

(biggest) Imports :  Cars, Gold, Refined Petrolium, Crude Petrolium, Packaged medicines.
(biggest) exports :  Cars, Crude Petrolium, Gold, Gas Turbines, Packaged medicines.

Apparently the UK buys alot of gold, and sells it to others.
Same with medicine, it comes in and then goes out.

Australia needs things it doesnt produce itself.
Canada exports alot of the things it needs.

UK? Im not sure where it fits in, but im sure theres things to be traded back and forth between the nations.
Im not sure its some magical fix that ll come anywhere close to what its loseing from leaveing the EU's single market.

The politics I can totally see being touchy, as even I wasn't all that keen on that portion myself. Though I can see the thought process behind it since we're all part of 'the same family', if you will. I wondered what some opinions would be and didn't want to muddy them by saying what I thought first. Also I just found out about it so I gotta look into it more, but perhaps someone across the pond knew better what it was all about.

The business and trade would make more sense, but I would assume the UK would want to keep trading as much as possible with the EU where it potentially could, and then possibly deal with lesser beneficial trade with CANZUK partners for some of the rest. Not sure how tough the EU is being with the UK on this and where it's likely to end up. Having a back up plan isn't a bad idea though.



EricHiggin said:
JRPGfan said:

Brexit = we dont want anyone telling us what to do!


"CANZUK is an acronym for the theoretical political and economic union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom as part of an international body similar in scope to the former European Economic Community. This includes increased trade, foreign policy co-operation, military co-operation and mobility of citizens between the four states." - Wikipedia


So working with the EU isnt something the UK wants..... but its okay joining another smaller version seemingly heading the same direction as the EU? by think-tanks.

"Canada, Australia and New Zealand are former settler colonies of the British Empire where people of British ethnic origin came to constitute the majority of the population." - Wikipedia

Okay... so the reason it wants it.... is because in the great old days of the British Empire! things where great, britain ruled the waves and the world.
What are the chances that the UK as the old rulers, won't want "special privilages" like they did in the EU? to join Canzuk? Will CANZUK be the future scapegoat by UK politicans? and then a Brexit 2.0 (with Canzuk) (okay Im jumping too far ahead here).


Thats a hellva spread out empire though.
Canada + Austalia + UK is basically 3 points as far away from each other, on the planet as humanly possible.

Because that makes for fantastic and easy trade.
Why trade with nearby neighbors, when you can travel half way around the world, to do the same?

EnricoPallazzo said:

Can't see it as a bad thing. Trade deals between nations is usually beneficial to both specially in business and trade. Political is a little bit more complicated and depend on other factors on the table.

JRPGfan said:

Lets see:

Australia:
(biggest) Imports : Refined petrolium, crude petrolium, cars, delivery trucks, broadcasting equiptment,...
(biggest) exports : Coal, Iron ores, Gold, Copper.

Canada:
(biggest) Imports : Cars, Refined petrolium, delievery trucks, Computers.
(biggest) exports : Crude petrolium, cars, Refinded petrolium, Gold, Vehicle Parts.


Canda benefits alot from trade with Australia:
Alright so already we see that canada + australia makes good sense to trade with one another.
Australia needs cars + petrolium, and Canada has alot of that.
Canada needs iron, and australia has that.

You notice that both countries sell petrolium, and import it.
Both also have gold, exports.  Canada sells cars, and also imports alot of them.

UK:

(biggest) Imports :  Cars, Gold, Refined Petrolium, Crude Petrolium, Packaged medicines.
(biggest) exports :  Cars, Crude Petrolium, Gold, Gas Turbines, Packaged medicines.

Apparently the UK buys alot of gold, and sells it to others.
Same with medicine, it comes in and then goes out.

Australia needs things it doesnt produce itself.
Canada exports alot of the things it needs.

UK? Im not sure where it fits in, but im sure theres things to be traded back and forth between the nations.
Im not sure its some magical fix that ll come anywhere close to what its loseing from leaveing the EU's single market.

The politics I can totally see being touchy, as even I wasn't all that keen on that portion myself. Though I can see the thought process behind it since we're all part of 'the same family', if you will. I wondered what some opinions would be and didn't want to muddy them by saying what I thought first. Also I just found out about it so I gotta look into it more, but perhaps someone across the pond knew better what it was all about.

The business and trade would make more sense, but I would assume the UK would want to keep trading as much as possible with the EU where it potentially could, and then possibly deal with lesser beneficial trade with CANZUK partners for some of the rest. Not sure how tough the EU is being with the UK on this and where it's likely to end up. Having a back up plan isn't a bad idea though.

EU is actually going pretty easy on the UK.
All the UK has to get free trade agreement, is agree with commen sense things to get it.
But apparently, it wont comepete on fair levels to the EU, so wont agree to them.

Where its likely to end up:
The EU is ~50% of the UK's trade, and a further ~11% through countries that have trade deals with the EU.

So its only like 61% of their trade.... which apparnetly they dont value that much.
Then about ~80% of the UK economy is based around finance and services, they sell to others.
Alot of these, are from the EU, which in future the EU likely wont allow the UK to keep
(why give away jobs and money to another nation not in the EU for free? to handle finance and serives for you? if you can do them yourself)

The UK economy is gonna shrink aton, and apparently the avg Joe bloke of the UK doesnt care.
"give us WTO rules then" Without understanding the impact of such.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 15 July 2020

"The US and China are reportedly among 20 countries attempting to prevent Britain from agreeing a fast-track deal with the World Trade Organisation (WTO) on its post-Brexit terms of trade with the rest of the world. Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, admitted several WTO members had “expressed reservations” about the government’s plan to stay on terms similar to those it still enjoys as a member of the European Union (EU). Britain is a full member of the WTO, but its membership is bound up with the EU, meaning it has to come to an independent agreement with the trade body." - Alan Marr (YT)


LMAO....
Give us WTO rules then!

That might not even happend jan 1st 2021.
Apparently theres 20+ countries blocking the UK, amoung them the USA and China.
Claiming the only reason the UK was part of it (WTO membership) was bound to the EU being in.

This means the UK will have to apply for a membership to the WTO and first get accepted into it again.

Because of this mess the UK has, where there will be a 6month time window without controll of its borders (their own trade minster claims such).....
and smuggleing issues, I could see them getting rejected.

What happends then?



JRPGfan said:

"The US and China are reportedly among 20 countries attempting to prevent Britain from agreeing a fast-track deal with the World Trade Organisation (WTO) on its post-Brexit terms of trade with the rest of the world. Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, admitted several WTO members had “expressed reservations” about the government’s plan to stay on terms similar to those it still enjoys as a member of the European Union (EU). Britain is a full member of the WTO, but its membership is bound up with the EU, meaning it has to come to an independent agreement with the trade body." - Alan Marr (YT)


LMAO....
Give us WTO rules then!

That might not even happend jan 1st 2021.
Apparently theres 20+ countries blocking the UK, amoung them the USA and China.
Claiming the only reason the UK was part of it (WTO membership) was bound to the EU being in.

This means the UK will have to apply for a membership to the WTO and first get accepted into it again.

Because of this mess the UK has, where there will be a 6month time window without controll of its borders (their own trade minster claims such).....
and smuggleing issues, I could see them getting rejected.

What happends then?

No planes will be able to land in britain, neither fly from, people will starve in the streets as no food will be able to arrive in the island. Hospitals will get rioted by people looking for medicines. All companies will leave britain. Scotland will get their independance and Ireland will be reunited. Churchill statue will be teared down finally. A reverse Dunkirk will happen with people fleeing for EU, which of course will shut its borders leaving the brits to die at the beach suffering with the outbreak of gonorrhea as they didnt have medication to treat it. 

At the very end, EU will use it as an example for any country trying to leave the union, while it proceeds with it's plans to add more countries to the union and finally implementing fiscal union. It will be clear that it will be impossible for any country to leave, ever.