Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pokémon: Let's Go Reviews! Metacritic - 81(Pikachu)/81(Eevee) OpenCritic - 82

Will you be getting this game?

Yes 49 59.04%
 
No 34 40.96%
 
Total:83
flashfire926 said:
JWeinCom said:

Ummmm... no.  You repeatedly claimed I was being illogical and biased.  And you claimed that it being for a difference audience and it being more accessible was just a "narrative" made up as an excuse.  And you repeatedly insisted I explain myself lest I be a hypocrite.  So, that is totally not what was happening.  But when I explain with actual evidence why the game is indeed more accessible, and why another audience would prefer it this way, suddenly the tone is changing.

If you have nothing to say in response when I actually bring up facts and features about the game to back up my opinion... then yes baseless whining.  

The pokemon games prior to lets go were very accessible in the first place (heck, the first island was basically tutorial island). The game is very easy too (maybe except a couple of totems, but thats it).

What facts and evidence did you bring? Dolphin's argument was much more convincing.

I gave a pretty detailed explanation of the changes they made to make the game more accessible.  Go back a page.  I don't think that Dolphin actually brought up a single point about the game.  So... I'm not sure why you'd find that convincing.

Lonely_Dolphin said:
JWeinCom said:

Ummmm... no.  You repeatedly claimed I was being illogical and biased.  And you claimed that it being for a difference audience and it being more accessible was just a "narrative" made up as an excuse.  And you repeatedly insisted I explain myself lest I be a hypocrite.  So, that is totally not what was happening.  But when I explain with actual evidence why the game is indeed more accessible, and why another audience would prefer it this way, suddenly the tone is changing.

If you have nothing to say in response when I actually bring up facts and features about the game to back up my opinion... then yes baseless whining.  

Um yes, you are quite free to think that lol. You needed only explain yourself once just so I could understand where you're coming from. The tone on my end never changed, your initial post was always the main subject matter. You suddenly dropped the issue after your 4th reply then went off on a one sided tangent because you didn't like the way I summarized your view. You also somehow read "Pokemon is already uber accessible" as "Let's Go isn't any more accessible." Naturally I don't feel like saying much to these points. They don't help make your initial comment more sensible nor do they invalidate the biggest flaw the game has which you didn't acknowledge after I brought it up. If you're still gonna write off criticisms by hardcore fans as baseless whining, like they can't also have facts backing them up, that people who like the game don't share any of the same criticisms, then you are indeed illogical and biased.

Now I think we've made our points pretty clear and it's certainly clear we wont convince each other of much else so this shall be my final response on the matter.

I didn't say every criticism was baseless whining.  I said yours was baseless whining.  Because you have not actually brought up any details about the actual game, which you have not played.  



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JWeinCom said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

But alas it would as I've shown already.

Sorry, I was assuming you would be consistent and fair with your logic.

Except Pokemon is already uber accessible, 3 year olds can beat it. Face it, the whole "it's for a different audience" angle is just GameFreak's excuse for being uber lazy n greedy by selling what is essentially Sun/Moon but with only 20% of the content at 1.5x the price. The correct analogy here is that we're complaining a pizzeria is serving pizza for full price but without the pepperoni, cheese, and tomato sauce. If you're fine with only getting bread instead of a full pizza, then fair enough, but so too should it also be fair that others aren't satisfied and expect more.

I'm not sure you're qualified to evaluate people's logic.  You don't seem to get that good or bad qualities are dependent on a situation.

A three year old couldn't beat Pokemon (it tends to require a fair bit of reading). A three year old probably could beat Marvel vs Capcom 3.  Doesn't mean that is a more accessible game.  

But there is a reason I bought Evee while skipping out on Sun and Moon, and that is because it is more accessible.  I like Pokemon, but I've been playing less and less, because the effort of building a team and constructing one is insanely tedious, and I am an adult with a job.  Evee is the first game in a while I actually plan to play multiplayer with because it is absolutely more accessible.

Being able to see what Pokemon you want, instead of being forced to wander, go to the battle screen, and run each time you don't want makes it more accessible (or using the Pokemon finder that makes things slightly less of a pain in the ass).  Using candies to be able to focus my pokemon's stats in the area I want instead of having to go through the process of grinding EVs, grinding for power anklet/bracelet/whatever, makes it more accessible.  Being able to check my Pokemon's IVs from the menu instead of having to use an online IV calculator makes it more accessible.  Being able to focus on a selection of 150 Pokemon instead of trying to be prepared on the umpteen strategies that arise from having like 700 Pokemon makes it more accessible.  Not having to breed for hours to get the right hidden ability makes it more accessible.  Being able to influence the nature of random Pokemon without having a bunch of synchronized Abras make it more accessible.  Being able to find missing pieces to your Pokedex with Go makes it more accessible.  Going back to the days before the Pokedex was way over 500 makes filling out the Pokedex seem like an actual fun and worthwhile goal instead of a ridiculous feat requiring multiple generations of games and hardware (or a Pokemon stock broker).

All of these little nuances of Pokemon that made the hardcore fans love it can now be enjoyed by newer or less devoted fans.  Granted a lot of depth has been sacrificed, but fir me that's a tradeoff that's worth it,.Making a team that you can actually battle other people with in the recent games was a massive undertaking.  In Pokemon Let's Go, it's fairly simple and easy thanks to a bunch of changes to the formula.  Not only can I do the basic get to the end of the game thing, but I can actually make a decent team to fight and battle others without treating it as a second job.  

And that does not mean that the Sun and Moon formula is bad (a point that continuously eludes you).  When I actually had the free time, I loved diving into the nuance, and creating the perfect team ready to deal with any situation, and trying to pluck and pokemon out of obscurity and find a way to wreck someone's OU team with (I used Clefable before it was cool, and have been known to sweep with a Togekiss).  And over the summer, when I have more free time, I may finally get Ultra Sun and Moon and get back to that style of play.  But, for now, I'm looking for more simplicity, and Let's Go is far more in line with what I want out of a Pokemon game. 

So, there's definitely an audience for this kind of Pokemon game, who is looking for a simpler experience.  I know because I'm a part of it.  And perhaps if you actually played the game, you'd be aware of the nuances that actually make me enjoy this game more than I've enjoyed the series in a long time.

1) Pokemon Sun/Moon (and X/Y, ORAS) are very accessible and easy themselseves. Building a team is part of pokemon, so if you dont like that the series isnt for you. But guess what, there;s good news. Even if you put together a random team, exp share, aka the isntant win button, exists. And even without it the game is very easy.

Gen 6/7 are already much easier and accessible then the gens before it ALREADY. Futher going down that line was unnecessary.

2) No one is forcing you to complete the whole pokedex. There is a regional pokedex that only requires you to catch the pokemon in that region.

edit: the bottom line is, that Sun/Moon catered for both the casuals and hardcore, while lets go only does the former.

Last edited by flashfire926 - on 22 November 2018

Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

flashfire926 said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm not sure you're qualified to evaluate people's logic.  You don't seem to get that good or bad qualities are dependent on a situation.

A three year old couldn't beat Pokemon (it tends to require a fair bit of reading). A three year old probably could beat Marvel vs Capcom 3.  Doesn't mean that is a more accessible game.  

But there is a reason I bought Evee while skipping out on Sun and Moon, and that is because it is more accessible.  I like Pokemon, but I've been playing less and less, because the effort of building a team and constructing one is insanely tedious, and I am an adult with a job.  Evee is the first game in a while I actually plan to play multiplayer with because it is absolutely more accessible.

Being able to see what Pokemon you want, instead of being forced to wander, go to the battle screen, and run each time you don't want makes it more accessible (or using the Pokemon finder that makes things slightly less of a pain in the ass).  Using candies to be able to focus my pokemon's stats in the area I want instead of having to go through the process of grinding EVs, grinding for power anklet/bracelet/whatever, makes it more accessible.  Being able to check my Pokemon's IVs from the menu instead of having to use an online IV calculator makes it more accessible.  Being able to focus on a selection of 150 Pokemon instead of trying to be prepared on the umpteen strategies that arise from having like 700 Pokemon makes it more accessible.  Not having to breed for hours to get the right hidden ability makes it more accessible.  Being able to influence the nature of random Pokemon without having a bunch of synchronized Abras make it more accessible.  Being able to find missing pieces to your Pokedex with Go makes it more accessible.  Going back to the days before the Pokedex was way over 500 makes filling out the Pokedex seem like an actual fun and worthwhile goal instead of a ridiculous feat requiring multiple generations of games and hardware (or a Pokemon stock broker).

All of these little nuances of Pokemon that made the hardcore fans love it can now be enjoyed by newer or less devoted fans.  Granted a lot of depth has been sacrificed, but fir me that's a tradeoff that's worth it,.Making a team that you can actually battle other people with in the recent games was a massive undertaking.  In Pokemon Let's Go, it's fairly simple and easy thanks to a bunch of changes to the formula.  Not only can I do the basic get to the end of the game thing, but I can actually make a decent team to fight and battle others without treating it as a second job.  

And that does not mean that the Sun and Moon formula is bad (a point that continuously eludes you).  When I actually had the free time, I loved diving into the nuance, and creating the perfect team ready to deal with any situation, and trying to pluck and pokemon out of obscurity and find a way to wreck someone's OU team with (I used Clefable before it was cool, and have been known to sweep with a Togekiss).  And over the summer, when I have more free time, I may finally get Ultra Sun and Moon and get back to that style of play.  But, for now, I'm looking for more simplicity, and Let's Go is far more in line with what I want out of a Pokemon game. 

So, there's definitely an audience for this kind of Pokemon game, who is looking for a simpler experience.  I know because I'm a part of it.  And perhaps if you actually played the game, you'd be aware of the nuances that actually make me enjoy this game more than I've enjoyed the series in a long time.

1) Pokemon Sun/Moon (and X/Y, ORAS) are very accessible and easy themselseves. Building a team is part of pokemon, so if you dont like that the series isnt for you. But guess what, there;s good news. Even if you put together a random team, exp share, aka the isntant win button, exists. And even without it the game is very easy.

Gen 6/7 are already much easier and accessible then the gens before it ALREADY. Futher going down that line was unnecessary.

2) No one is forcing you to complete the whole pokedex. There is a regional pokedex that only requires you to catch the pokemon in that region.

edit: the bottom line is, that Sun/Moon catered for both the casuals and hardcore, while lets go only does the former.

1.  Maybe not to you.  For me, it was.  Apparently, I'm not the only one.  And you're focusing only on the single player, not the multiplayer.  

2.  Sure, nobody is forcing you.  But by making it an actual realistic goal to complete the Pokemon, it makes it something people may want to do and enjoy doing.  I haven't really cared about filling out the Pokedex since gen 3 when it became practically impossible (I think it was literally impossible till fire Heart Gold and Soul Silver).  Now, it's an element of the game I actually care about.  That's accessibility.  

As for it being casually focused, no argument there.  Which is why I started by saying that the complaints coming from the hardcore fans are that this is not for them.  But for either casual fans, or fans like me that like the hardcore elements of Pokemon but don't have the time to invest, it's a great experience.  Not every game has to be for everyone.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 November 2018

JWeinCom said:
flashfire926 said:

1) Pokemon Sun/Moon (and X/Y, ORAS) are very accessible and easy themselseves. Building a team is part of pokemon, so if you dont like that the series isnt for you. But guess what, there;s good news. Even if you put together a random team, exp share, aka the isntant win button, exists. And even without it the game is very easy.

Gen 6/7 are already much easier and accessible then the gens before it ALREADY. Futher going down that line was unnecessary.

2) No one is forcing you to complete the whole pokedex. There is a regional pokedex that only requires you to catch the pokemon in that region.

edit: the bottom line is, that Sun/Moon catered for both the casuals and hardcore, while lets go only does the former.

1.  Maybe not to you.  For me, it was.  Apparently, I'm not the only one.  And you're focusing only on the single player, not the multiplayer.  

2.  Sure, nobody is forcing you.  But by making it an actual realistic goal to complete the Pokemon, it makes it something people may want to do and enjoy doing.  I haven't really cared about filling out the Pokedex since gen 3 when it became practically impossible (I think it was literally impossible till fire Heart Gold and Soul Silver).  Now, it's an element of the game I actually care about.  That's accessibility.  

As for it being casually focused, no argument there.  Which is why I started by saying that the complaints coming from the hardcore fans are that this is not for them.  But for either casual fans, or fans like me that like the hardcore elements of Pokemon but don't have the time to invest, it's a great experience.  Not every game has to be for everyone.

1) where you playing the games with your eyes closed or something? The games are piss easy, and you have to go out of the way and try to lose to actually lose. 

2) By your logic, its more inpossible to do the pokedex in lets go because its actually impossible to get all mons, unlike sun/moon where its actually possible (although difficult)

Just because you dont care doesnt mean that the rest of us dont care.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

flashfire926 said:
JWeinCom said:

1.  Maybe not to you.  For me, it was.  Apparently, I'm not the only one.  And you're focusing only on the single player, not the multiplayer.  

2.  Sure, nobody is forcing you.  But by making it an actual realistic goal to complete the Pokemon, it makes it something people may want to do and enjoy doing.  I haven't really cared about filling out the Pokedex since gen 3 when it became practically impossible (I think it was literally impossible till fire Heart Gold and Soul Silver).  Now, it's an element of the game I actually care about.  That's accessibility.  

As for it being casually focused, no argument there.  Which is why I started by saying that the complaints coming from the hardcore fans are that this is not for them.  But for either casual fans, or fans like me that like the hardcore elements of Pokemon but don't have the time to invest, it's a great experience.  Not every game has to be for everyone.

1) where you playing the games with your eyes closed or something? The games are piss easy, and you have to go out of the way and try to lose to actually lose. 

2) By your logic, its more inpossible to do the pokedex in lets go because its actually impossible to get all mons, unlike sun/moon where its actually possible (although difficult)

Just because you dont care doesnt mean that the rest of us dont care.

1.  Uhhhh... I don't know how else to say this since I explained in the long post, and then again to you just now.  Multiplayer exists.  It's an element that can be very obtuse to players in the newer games, so many of them don't participate in it.  This game makes it more accessible to them. So players who may not have played around with the multiplayer much in other games, may choose to do so in this one.  Like me.

Just gotta say, it's kind of strange that people supposedly arguing on behalf of the hardcore crowd are acting like the multiplayer part of Pokemon doesn't exist.  And maybe that's part of the problem.  Based on the singleplayer experience alone, there's really not much reason to recommend Let's Go over Sun and Moon to anyone who has at played at least some of the games before.  So, for those casual fans of the series who just want to go through the single player mode, maybe this just isn't for them.  Most of the improvements are for those who want to enjoy the multiplayer with a lower time commitment or those getting into it for the first time.

2.  When someone says "by your logic", you know they're going to say something that in no way reflects your actual logic. 

In Pokemon Go, you are presented with a Pokedex and told to gather data on 150 Pokemon.  This is something that can absolutely be accomplished in that game, without having to go through seven generations of Pokemon titles over three different gaming devices.  When a player sees this, they may think "hey that sounds like an interesting challenge". 

On the other hand, when you are presented with a Pokedex that has 800 different entries, and would require completing playing six other games to complete (or spending a lot of time searching message boards for trades), the average person is going to be like "uhhhh no".

One game presents you with a reasonable goal to shoot for.  The other does not.  To the point where they actually don't really even push the Pokedex as a feature anymore, and actually stopped using "gotta catch em all" as a tag line.  This is really not my main point, but this is just one example of how this game is more accessible. 

If you care and are getting upset that a product not designed for you includes things you don't like or doesn't include things that you do like... than I don't know what to say.  That's a rather dumb thing to care about.  Not everything has to be designed to your tastes.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 23 November 2018