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Forums - Gaming Discussion - FFXV Director "Tabata" has left Square Enix

AsGryffynn said:
shikamaru317 said:

It was far more than just trailers and tech demos. According to reliable sources Nomura had finished writing the story by 2010 and the game was supposedly 25% finished and planned for release on PS3 in 2014 as of the 2011 trailer, but shortly after that Square was shown an early PS4 demonstration, and Square's CEO Yoichi Wada made the decision to transfer it to next gen and turn it into FF15. After that, Square wanted it done as fast as possible, so Tabata and his team were brought in to help with Tabata co-directing. There are reports of Tabata and his team clashing with Nomura and his team, so eventually Nomura was dropped entirely so he could work on KH3 and FF7 Remake, which had both entered early development by that point (December 2013). 

Except that the story he finished was mostly what we were shown. Nothing Nomura made diverged significantly save at the start. The only differences were the insertion of the Oracle role and the growth in Ardyn's role which was originally an Emperor thing. Well, there was also Lupus, but Lupus was no different to Ravus in anything excepting design. 

Not sure where you're getting that from. Tabata himself said that they cut alot, he insinuated that Versus 13 was originally supposed to have sequels, so he had to cut alot of planned story elements in order to condense the story of of multiple games into a single game. We know that he cut Stella, we know that he cut the Invasion of Insomnia, we know that main villain roles changed almost entirely with Iedolas and Verstael having much bigger roles originally, we know that references to the Godess Etro and Noctis' ability to see the light of expiring souls were cut, we know that Versus 13 was designed to be much darker than 15 ended up being. 

And that's just story, we know that Tabata made alot of gameplay changes as well.

Look, I liked FFXV, it wasn't a great game, it had rushed writing, poor combat, and a number of other issues, but it was still a fairly fun experience overall, I gave it an 8/10. But you can't blame me and others like me who followed Versus 13 right from it's 2006 announce for mourning the loss of Nomura's version. Could it have ended up being worse? Sure. But it might have been alot better as well. Fact is we will never know. All we can do is dream. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 09 November 2018

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shikamaru317 said:
AsGryffynn said:

Except that the story he finished was mostly what we were shown. Nothing Nomura made diverged significantly save at the start. The only differences were the insertion of the Oracle role and the growth in Ardyn's role which was originally an Emperor thing. Well, there was also Lupus, but Lupus was no different to Ravus in anything excepting design. 

Not sure where you're getting that from. Tabata himself said that they cut alot, he insinuated that Versus 13 was originally supposed to have sequels, so he had to cut alot of planned story elements in order to condense the story of of multiple games into a single game. We know that he cut Stella, we know that he cut the Invasion of Insomnia, we know that main villain roles changed almost entirely with Iedolas and Verstael having much bigger roles originally, we know that references to the Godess Etro and Noctis' ability to see the light of expiring souls were cut, we know that Versus 13 was designed to be much darker than 15 ended up being. 

And that's just story, we know that Tabata made alot of gameplay changes as well.

Look, I liked FFXV, it wasn't a great game, it had rushed writing, poor combat, and a number of other issues, but it was still a fairly fun experience overall, I gave it an 8/10. But you can't blame me and others like me who followed Versus 13 right from it's 2006 announce for mourning the loss of Nomura's version. Could it have ended up being worse? Sure. But it might have been alot better as well. Fact is we will never know. All we can do is dream. 

If Nomura were allowed to continue pushing FFXV around in development hell, most likely outcome is we'd still be sitting here waiting for his vision to become a playable game, with just a greater collection of trailers and maybe a prologue disc.



It's a bit bittersweet to see him leave while the DLCs weren't finished, but FF15 has seen far more love and care than anyone expected under his watch, so I can't be too mad at him doing his own thing. The days of storied creators staying with their studios is long dead.



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Shaunodon said:
shikamaru317 said:

Not sure where you're getting that from. Tabata himself said that they cut alot, he insinuated that Versus 13 was originally supposed to have sequels, so he had to cut alot of planned story elements in order to condense the story of of multiple games into a single game. We know that he cut Stella, we know that he cut the Invasion of Insomnia, we know that main villain roles changed almost entirely with Iedolas and Verstael having much bigger roles originally, we know that references to the Godess Etro and Noctis' ability to see the light of expiring souls were cut, we know that Versus 13 was designed to be much darker than 15 ended up being. 

And that's just story, we know that Tabata made alot of gameplay changes as well.

Look, I liked FFXV, it wasn't a great game, it had rushed writing, poor combat, and a number of other issues, but it was still a fairly fun experience overall, I gave it an 8/10. But you can't blame me and others like me who followed Versus 13 right from it's 2006 announce for mourning the loss of Nomura's version. Could it have ended up being worse? Sure. But it might have been alot better as well. Fact is we will never know. All we can do is dream. 

If Nomura were allowed to continue pushing FFXV around in development hell, most likely outcome is we'd still be sitting here waiting for his vision to become a playable game, with just a greater collection of trailers and maybe a prologue disc.

I'm doubtful of that. People hold those first 4 years (2006-2010) against Nomura, but you can't really do that, Square had him working on multiple other games during that timeframe (including directing all of the KH handheld games) and they were also waiting on technology to catch up to his plan for the game. Fact is, by 2010 he had finished the story and character designs, and by the time the 2011 trailer released the game was finally in active development and 25% completed with a scheduled release on PS3 in 2014.  We would have long since already gotten Nomura's Versus 13 had Yoichi Wada not made the decision to turn it into 15 and restart development for PS4/XB1. Now, the main difference is, Nomura's 13 was seemingly intended to have sequels, so we might still be waiting on the 2nd game in the series, since KH3 probably would have been prioritized first. 



Isn't Tabata the one who single handedly swooped in and saved FFXV after Nomura supposedly took a decade to darn near release another FFXIII travesty? Bad news....



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shikamaru317 said:
Shaunodon said:

If Nomura were allowed to continue pushing FFXV around in development hell, most likely outcome is we'd still be sitting here waiting for his vision to become a playable game, with just a greater collection of trailers and maybe a prologue disc.

I'm doubtful of that. People hold those first 4 years (2006-2010) against Nomura, but you can't really do that, Square had him working on multiple other games during that timeframe (including directing all of the KH handheld games) and they were also waiting on technology to catch up to his plan for the game. Fact is, by 2010 he had finished the story and character designs, and by the time the 2011 trailer released the game was finally in active development and 25% completed with a scheduled release on PS3 in 2014.  We would have long since already gotten Nomura's Versus 13 had Yoichi Wada not made the decision to turn it into 15 and restart development for PS4/XB1. Now, the main difference is, Nomura's 13 was seemingly intended to have sequels, so we might still be waiting on the 2nd game in the series, since KH3 probably would have been prioritized first. 

The fact that you have to rely on all these bits of hearsay and empty assurances that they had a plan, doesn't help convince me they were actually going anywhere. Really only hammers home the point, and helps me understand why Square Enix felt they had no choice but to hand it to a different lead and team.
If Nomura cared enough and actually had a clue where he was going with the project, he probably could've convinced them otherwise. But someone who bursts into work one morning with an epiphany of turning their JRPG into a musical, probably doesn't lend much hope to investors.



Shaunodon said:
shikamaru317 said:

I'm doubtful of that. People hold those first 4 years (2006-2010) against Nomura, but you can't really do that, Square had him working on multiple other games during that timeframe (including directing all of the KH handheld games) and they were also waiting on technology to catch up to his plan for the game. Fact is, by 2010 he had finished the story and character designs, and by the time the 2011 trailer released the game was finally in active development and 25% completed with a scheduled release on PS3 in 2014.  We would have long since already gotten Nomura's Versus 13 had Yoichi Wada not made the decision to turn it into 15 and restart development for PS4/XB1. Now, the main difference is, Nomura's 13 was seemingly intended to have sequels, so we might still be waiting on the 2nd game in the series, since KH3 probably would have been prioritized first. 

The fact that you have to rely on all these bits of hearsay and empty assurances that they had a plan, doesn't help convince me they were actually going anywhere. Really only hammers home the point, and helps me understand why Square Enix felt they had no choice but to hand it to a different lead and team.
If Nomura cared enough and actually had a clue where he was going with the project, he probably could've convinced them otherwise. But someone who bursts into work one morning with an epiphany of turning their JRPG into a musical, probably doesn't lend much hope to investors.

It's not hearsay, it was confirmed through official sources that the game was already in full production when the 2011 trailer released. It was also confirmed by an artist from Nomura's team that in 2012 the game was planned for release on PS3 in 2014 ("the definitive delivery date for the game was for the end of 2014"), right before Yoichi Wada made the decision to turn it into XV and brought Tabata's team in to help turn it into XV. Tabata himself confirmed that when he came on in 2012 Versus 13 was 20-25% complete. 



shikamaru317 said:
AsGryffynn said:

Except that the story he finished was mostly what we were shown. Nothing Nomura made diverged significantly save at the start. The only differences were the insertion of the Oracle role and the growth in Ardyn's role which was originally an Emperor thing. Well, there was also Lupus, but Lupus was no different to Ravus in anything excepting design. 

Not sure where you're getting that from. Tabata himself said that they cut alot, he insinuated that Versus 13 was originally supposed to have sequels, so he had to cut alot of planned story elements in order to condense the story of of multiple games into a single game. We know that he cut Stella, we know that he cut the Invasion of Insomnia, we know that main villain roles changed almost entirely with Iedolas and Verstael having much bigger roles originally, we know that references to the Godess Etro and Noctis' ability to see the light of expiring souls were cut, we know that Versus 13 was designed to be much darker than 15 ended up being. 

And that's just story, we know that Tabata made alot of gameplay changes as well.

Look, I liked FFXV, it wasn't a great game, it had rushed writing, poor combat, and a number of other issues, but it was still a fairly fun experience overall, I gave it an 8/10. But you can't blame me and others like me who followed Versus 13 right from it's 2006 announce for mourning the loss of Nomura's version. Could it have ended up being worse? Sure. But it might have been alot better as well. Fact is we will never know. All we can do is dream. 

He did. The Invasion of Insomnia, playable parts of Stella/Luna's trip, an entire dungeon within the Dream World Noctis visited, a dungeon in the World of Darkness as well... The sequels were the only thing Nomura envisioned out of the game, and those sequels were undeveloped, especially story-wise. Almost everything he cut was just more content to make the world a little less sparse, and that ran into the good old problem all Nomura games had: running out of time. Iedolas and Verstael's roles were essentially becoming bosses and leading an invasion/military campaign. This was condensed into Kingsglaive and the Ramuh raid... The references to the light alluded to their current role as the ones who would end the Starscourge and tied in to Ardyn's immortality. The summons weren't there. Worse carnage, bloodshed and a more "total war" tone were the main reason for the game having been darker back then, but the central plot had always been the friends going around and trying to get the Crystal back to protect Insomnia from the daemons. 

There was no "vision". That's the problem. People have to accept they would've gotten a more complete product, but our game wouldn't have been different. FF Type-0 for Xbox is still the same Type 0 you got for PSP, but with better graphics and extra stuff. 

But no, this needs to stop. There wasn't "more" to this sort of shite. 



Epic was right all along... 

Damn, this is an actual mod that went live...

https://kotaku.com/the-death-of-final-fantasy-xv-dlc-memorialized-in-mod-1830376736?fbclid=IwAR35WLBBDwKEwuBHTPTA0xR-90NoqGirMO_KPU-e2FnELCeilYNXQTkSlAg



Shaunodon said:
shikamaru317 said:

I'm doubtful of that. People hold those first 4 years (2006-2010) against Nomura, but you can't really do that, Square had him working on multiple other games during that timeframe (including directing all of the KH handheld games) and they were also waiting on technology to catch up to his plan for the game. Fact is, by 2010 he had finished the story and character designs, and by the time the 2011 trailer released the game was finally in active development and 25% completed with a scheduled release on PS3 in 2014.  We would have long since already gotten Nomura's Versus 13 had Yoichi Wada not made the decision to turn it into 15 and restart development for PS4/XB1. Now, the main difference is, Nomura's 13 was seemingly intended to have sequels, so we might still be waiting on the 2nd game in the series, since KH3 probably would have been prioritized first. 

The fact that you have to rely on all these bits of hearsay and empty assurances that they had a plan, doesn't help convince me they were actually going anywhere. Really only hammers home the point, and helps me understand why Square Enix felt they had no choice but to hand it to a different lead and team.
If Nomura cared enough and actually had a clue where he was going with the project, he probably could've convinced them otherwise. But someone who bursts into work one morning with an epiphany of turning their JRPG into a musical, probably doesn't lend much hope to investors.

Its common knowledge that nomura versus teams were assigned by SE on main line XIII entries during PS3 era. As Versus 13 was not the mainline entry and was too dark and voilent to be a mainline entry hence he was asked to brighten up the game so it could get a wider release, hence it was during this time Nomura floated the idea of making XV a musical as the concept was heavily inspired by Shakespear Romeo and juliet, but the idea was quickly shot down by his team and SE, In process of making it less dark Nomura pitched various stage reboots which would have set them back even further, Hence SE made tabata the incharge.. the only thing Tabata did was cut down the story to make a shorter narrative for a single game, in process ruining the game.

So only if SE didn't force Versus on to main line entry we would have had nomura's game in the same year as tabata and preparing for the sequel.