Forums - Politics Discussion - Are worker unions good or bad?

snyps said:
I'm also concerned that by more or less forcing all school employees to be pro union, they are limiting the adults that will mold children's opinions. If you are pro union then are you not most likely a progressive democrat? That's a very politically biased set of teachers and staff. Are unions being used to prevent libertarian ideas from entering the schools?

I gotta be honest, this sounds more like you want to hate the union and are just grasping for any straw you can reach.

On whether a union forces you to be a progressive liberal, no. Do unions prefer Democrats, yes. Why? Since they are the one that protect union rights. 

Are they brainwashing our kids, again no. I grew up in a union school system and I honestly was not once taught anything about unions in my time. Curriculum is set by the state not teachers normally. Your over thinking this.

I've only formed my opinion after working in a non union position and a union position. Companies take advantage of there power with no union present.



     

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I'm in a union here in the UK. I think they're great.

I get 29 days holiday a year, and management tried to implement a policy to dictate that I had to take a block of two weeks leave every year. They claimed it was for health and safety reasons but I knew it was because it would save them time as they'd have to process less holiday requests. I took it to my union, they just laughed and shot it down immediately. They were also on hand when my contract was transferred between in employers and were helpful in talking me through the ins and outs and smaller details.

I suppose a union is only as good as the union rep you have. Some employers will bank on workers not knowing their rights etc and take advantage of that. A good union rep will know these things and be able to help you greatly if issues arise.

Last edited by drbunnig - on 17 October 2018

cycycychris said:
snyps said:
I'm also concerned that by more or less forcing all school employees to be pro union, they are limiting the adults that will mold children's opinions. If you are pro union then are you not most likely a progressive democrat? That's a very politically biased set of teachers and staff. Are unions being used to prevent libertarian ideas from entering the schools?

I gotta be honest, this sounds more like you want to hate the union and are just grasping for any straw you can reach.

On whether a union forces you to be a progressive liberal, no. Do unions prefer Democrats, yes. Why? Since they are the one that protect union rights. 

Are they brainwashing our kids, again no. I grew up in a union school system and I honestly was not once taught anything about unions in my time. Curriculum is set by the state not teachers normally. Your over thinking this.

I've only formed my opinion after working in a non union position and a union position. Companies take advantage of there power with no union present.

I appreciate your honesty. I haven't taken time to dissect your/other's opinions yet from this thread. I am starting off with the instinct that they are bad so I am trying to explain where my instinct is rooted. Incase anyone wants to discuss those ideas buried in my head. 

So you agree that if all school employees are more or less forced to be pro union that means nearly all school staff is going to be a progressive liberal? But you disagree that any of that has a chance of rubbing off on impressionable minds? 

I didn't say brainwashing, setting curriculum, or teaching unionisms. But I was rather vague. I meant, no one is teaching liberty as a general philosophy outside of the curriculum. Outside of the curriculum, they are being influenced to hate the right to own guns.

I see that as a valid concern. Worth discussing..



snyps said:

My reason is that you don’t see unions at McDonald’s or front facing corporations. Which tells me that if a McDonald’s employee gets screwed by working and not getting paid for it (or something similar to that effect) then he would hire a lawyer and sue then for a gang of money.

I can't stop laughing. Seriously. Do you have the tiniest remote experience with the American legal system? You think a worker can just sue his employer for a "gang of money"? 

You are far too naive to understand why labor unions are so important and the reason collective bargaining is so crucial to maintaining a good workplace environment.



Unions are fine, just not for government employees.



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snyps said:
SvennoJ said:
wow, what did I just read. Seriously is there no education where you are from?

Your response was very disrespectful and I would like an apology. 

My apologies, I didn't mean to question your education, however my faith in the school system just went down a whole notch.

The history of unions was standard stuff in high school where I grew up, pros and cons. Unions are still relevant today. It might not be as pressing today as requiring safety equipment in coal mines, yet the games industry isn't that nice a place to work in either.

Anyway this seems to be an interesting article
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-conservative-case-for-unions/528708/



snyps said:

Why is is it that unions are always found wherever things are screwed up? They have no interest in permanently solving things because then they’d be irrelevant. So how is that a good thing? If I ever got screwed by my school (which I have no reason to think that where I am) wouldn’t it make sense to sue them like any other company. Aren’t there ambulance chasers that would see a commission in that? Wouldn’t that stop bad practices from happening in the future. To me it seems like unions let the practices continue while fixing only for the vocal few. You know what I mean?

1.  I really have no idea what the first sentence is talking about. 
2.  Generally, unions want everyone in the place to be in the union, so as far as "permanently solving things", they'd want it to be a perfect place full of people paying dues to keep it perfect. 
3.  Nope, don't know what you mean.  It seems to me more like leaving it up to individual lawsuits is the one that fixes it for the few while potentially leaving bad practices in place (maybe the company figures a few maimed employees getting cash settlements is less expensive than fixing the problem). 



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Policemen are only always where crime is. They'd all lose their jobs if they solved all the crimes so they just leave some crimes unsolved on purpose. Despicable scumbags. We should get rid of them.

Do you even listen to yourself? What are you talking about; "fixing" problems? Every single company on this planet will always look for ways to screw their employees. There will never be a shortage of stuff to fight against. Unions are there so that it doesn't even get to the point where you have to sue people. There is also enough shady shit that isn't against the law, so good luck suing for that.



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vivster said:
Policemen are only always where crime is. They'd all lose their jobs if they solved all the crimes so they just leave some crimes unsolved on purpose. Despicable scumbags. We should get rid of them.

Do you even listen to yourself? What are you talking about; "fixing" problems? Every single company on this planet will always look for ways to screw their employees. There will never be a shortage of stuff to fight against. Unions are there so that it doesn't even get to the point where you have to sue people. There is also enough shady shit that isn't against the law, so good luck suing for that.

You're terrible at analogies.

Also, I'm gonna leave this here...



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Mr Puggsly said:
vivster said:
Policemen are only always where crime is. They'd all lose their jobs if they solved all the crimes so they just leave some crimes unsolved on purpose. Despicable scumbags. We should get rid of them.

Do you even listen to yourself? What are you talking about; "fixing" problems? Every single company on this planet will always look for ways to screw their employees. There will never be a shortage of stuff to fight against. Unions are there so that it doesn't even get to the point where you have to sue people. There is also enough shady shit that isn't against the law, so good luck suing for that.

You're terrible at analogies.

Also, I'm gonna leave this here...

Unions help and work, that is not an opinion, that is a fact. Got anything substantial to say against that?



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