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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How Sony became king of consoles again

colafitte on 05 October 2018
curl-6 said:
colafitte said:

Pyrrhus of Epirus won his battle against Rome back then too, but there's a reason why, more than 2000 years later we remember him more for the phrase "pyrrhic victory", which the meaning is "Someone who wins that takes a heavy toll that negates any true sense of achievement". Wii won many battles in their first years, yes, but the brand ultimately lost the war in the end, and Nintendo suffered for years because of that. 

Some people consider that a competition is not about how it begins, but how it ends, and those people will never consider the Wii a winner, no matter how much Wii sold against the PS3 or another console, so the "winner of the generation" is not and never was, just the system that sold the most. The only undisputable fact is that Wii sold the most, that's it. And because there's no official way to give the award of "winner" to one or another, what's only left is cultural perception and personal valoration, and I repeat, you can't trust on the first one. In my case, I don't think Wii consumers remember that console as fondly as PS3 consumers remember their own, but ey, it's just my opinion.

In the end it's simply a matter of denial. Some people still bear such a grudge against the Wii for daring to cater to people other than 13-30 year old males that they can never accept that it outsold their preferred system. For as long as video games have competed against one another, outselling the competition has always denoted victory, and the only reason it is contested in this singular case is because of the irrational bias against the Wii, caused by impressionable folks buying into the "us vs them" rhetoric of the time and actually believing that laughable hogwash about how casual gaming was going to destroy the industry.

Look, what i'm trying to say is that there must be a reason why Wii was the most impressive selling console ever during 2006-2010 and then, after those years, Wii and later WiiU became dead last in sales against the competion. There must be a reason why don't you think?? It didn't happen to the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2 or NDS and it's not happening to the PS4 either, so, something was different here. What is it then??.



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curl-6 on 05 October 2018
colafitte said:
curl-6 said:

In the end it's simply a matter of denial. Some people still bear such a grudge against the Wii for daring to cater to people other than 13-30 year old males that they can never accept that it outsold their preferred system. For as long as video games have competed against one another, outselling the competition has always denoted victory, and the only reason it is contested in this singular case is because of the irrational bias against the Wii, caused by impressionable folks buying into the "us vs them" rhetoric of the time and actually believing that laughable hogwash about how casual gaming was going to destroy the industry.

Look, why i'm trying to say is that there must be a reason why Wii was the most impressive selling console ever during 2006-2010 and then, after those years, Wii and later WiiU became dead last in sales against the competion. There must be a reason why don't you think?? It didn't happen to the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2 or NDS and it's not happening to the PS4 either, so, something was different here. What is it then??.

It's simple, from 2011-2016 Nintendo went full moron and made every possible wrong move until finally getting their act together last year.

Honestly, it would've been hard for them to have fucked up any harder than they did.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

DonFerrari on 05 October 2018
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

If Wii trashed PS3 by outselling it by like 15% what do you call Playstation against N64, GC and WiiU?

I don't discriminate, I call N64, GC, and Wii U losers just like the PS3, and I call PS1, PS2, and PS4 a winners just like the Wii. I'm not a fanboy, I can accept when my preferred brand doesn't win.

I'm asking about the pronoun or qualification for those victories... because if Wii trashed PS3 due to 15% difference, how would you qualify the others?

And talking about hatred and etc, have you even seem what the topic is and who is spreading hate?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

colafitte on 05 October 2018
curl-6 said:
colafitte said:

Look, why i'm trying to say is that there must be a reason why Wii was the most impressive selling console ever during 2006-2010 and then, after those years, Wii and later WiiU became dead last in sales against the competion. There must be a reason why don't you think?? It didn't happen to the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2 or NDS and it's not happening to the PS4 either, so, something was different here. What is it then??.

It's simple, from 2011-2016 Nintendo went full moron and made every possible wrong move until finally getting their act together last year.

Ok, but i will tell you back that Nintendo didn't went as full moron as Sony during 2005-2007 era and still PS3 survived and still sold at a better rate than X360 , and it was the same console, the same concept as it started in 2006 (just cheaper, i will admit that). Wii went from selling (according to this site), 24M in 2008, 21M in 2009, 17M in 2010, and then just 11M in 2011 and only 5M in 2012. Even if we sum WiiU sales since 2012, Wii+WiiU only sold 18M combined since 2012. So the brand "Wii" (wii + wiiU) went from selling 24M in just a year to sell around 33M total from 2011-2017. 

What I take from that is that Wii became an undesired product, and no winner shoul be cosidered like that when their competition is still active. NES and SNES were not surpassed in the end by Sega, PS1 and PS2 were never surpassed by N64, GC or Xbox, and PS4 is not going to be surpassed ever by XBO, and even less by the difference X360 and PS3 won against Wii during 2011-2013.



curl-6 on 05 October 2018
colafitte said:
curl-6 said:

It's simple, from 2011-2016 Nintendo went full moron and made every possible wrong move until finally getting their act together last year.

Ok, but i will tell you back that Nintendo didn't went as full moron as Sony during 2005-2007 era and still PS3 survived and still sold at a better rate than X360 , and it was the same console, the same concept as it started in 2006 (just cheaper, i will admit that). Wii went from selling (according to this site), 24M in 2008, 21M in 2009, 17M in 2010, and then just 11M in 2011 and only 5M in 2012. Even if we sum WiiU sales since 2012, Wii+WiiU only sold 18M combined since 2012. So the brand "Wii" (wii + wiiU) went from selling 24M in just a year to sell around 33M total from 2011-2017. 

What I take from that is that Wii became an undesired product, and no winner shoul be cosidered like that when their competition is still active. NES and SNES were not surpassed in the end by Sega, PS1 and PS2 were never surpassed by N64, GC or Xbox, and PS4 is not going to be surpassed ever by XBO, and even less by the difference X360 and PS3 won against Wii during 2011-2013.

Nintendo left Wii high and dry nearly two years before its replacement in order to move their teams over to the 3DS and Wii U. It essentially only got 4 years of proper support. Yet it still outsold PS3 and 360 which had the luxury of being supported for twice as long. PS3/360 had 4 years to play catchup and still couldn't make it within spitting distance.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

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colafitte on 05 October 2018

What i want to say too, is that if you went to a shop right now, in 2018, and that shop gives you the opportunity of take one console of each gen for free and only just one. Let's say, NES vs Master System, in my opinion most people will choose NES. If its SNES against Mega Drive (or Genesis) most people will choose SNES. With PS1 against N64 and Saturn it will be PS1 and with PS2 against GC, DC and XB it will be PS2.

But if you put in that situation Wii against X360 and PS3, right now, in 2018, I won't bet most people will choose Wii. If i could get one of those for free, and just only one i will choose X360 or PS3 always, and don't get me wrong, I like Nintendo, they were the best software company back then (in my opinion they're the best software company ever, despite not being my favorite), but Wii as a console, can not compete at any level near those other consoles for me just because the amount of good games that those consoles had among other things too. In my opinion, the only reason why Wii sold more in the end, was because X360 and PS3 fought against each other for the same kind of consumer so they had to split the benefits. So the moment one won cleary against the other in the next gen, in this case PS4, PS4 became the absolute dominant console each year, and even with the Switch success, PS4 is still the best selling console of the year in its 5th year.

That's what this topic is about. Is about if PS became king again or was it always...., and some people have plenty of reasons to think that PS was always king.



colafitte on 05 October 2018
curl-6 said:
colafitte said:

Ok, but i will tell you back that Nintendo didn't went as full moron as Sony during 2005-2007 era and still PS3 survived and still sold at a better rate than X360 , and it was the same console, the same concept as it started in 2006 (just cheaper, i will admit that). Wii went from selling (according to this site), 24M in 2008, 21M in 2009, 17M in 2010, and then just 11M in 2011 and only 5M in 2012. Even if we sum WiiU sales since 2012, Wii+WiiU only sold 18M combined since 2012. So the brand "Wii" (wii + wiiU) went from selling 24M in just a year to sell around 33M total from 2011-2017. 

What I take from that is that Wii became an undesired product, and no winner shoul be cosidered like that when their competition is still active. NES and SNES were not surpassed in the end by Sega, PS1 and PS2 were never surpassed by N64, GC or Xbox, and PS4 is not going to be surpassed ever by XBO, and even less by the difference X360 and PS3 won against Wii during 2011-2013.

Nintendo left Wii high and dry nearly two years before its replacement in order to move their teams over to the 3DS and Wii U. It essentially only got 4 years of proper support. Yet it still outsold PS3 and 360 which had the luxury of being supported for twice as long. PS3/360 had 4 years to play catchup and still couldn't make it within spitting distance.

Those are some valid reasons (even if i not completely agree on them), but if you were in my place you would consider those reasons as excuses. if Wii only had 4 years, that's only Nintendo's fault, for not developing games of their own and not having support for 3rd parties. If Wii did not had support because of WiiU, why WiiU was a failure then? if the only reason was that Nintendo was occupied developing for Wii U during, according to you, 2 years, why WiiU did not beat PS3 and X360 in sales in 2012 and 2013 then? (in fact it only beat barely PS3 in 2014 after PS4 launch) And no, PS3/360 did not have 3 years of catch up, PS4 and XBO launched in 2013, just a year after WiiU, remember? and if Nintendo had to put resources on WiiU, Sony, Microsoft and the 3rd parties had to do it too. 

Wii as a console ended being undesired even by Nintendo itself. The only reason the Wii was a success was because Nintendo as a software company, not because the console itself was great. Like you said, the moment Nintendo stopped caring for the Wii, the sales plummeted. But i'm going to say you something more. Nintendo stopped caring for the Wii because they knew from 2010 that PS3/360 were starting to be more popular and Wii could not compete with them. And if you are in that position..., i don't think you can say to youself that you're "winning"...



curl-6 on 05 October 2018
colafitte said:

That's what this topic is about. Is about if PS became king again or was it always...., and some people have plenty of reasons to think that PS was always king.

From an objective point of view, there's not really any case for the PS3 being king; it lost the sales war, it lost billions of dollars, and it halved Sony's marketshare.

Having said that, everybody is entitled to their own personal preferences, so if PS3 was your favourite console last gen, if it was king for you, then that's fair enough.



colafitte on 05 October 2018
curl-6 said:
colafitte said:

That's what this topic is about. Is about if PS became king again or was it always...., and some people have plenty of reasons to think that PS was always king.

From an objective point of view, there's not really any case for the PS3 being king; it lost the sales war, it lost billions of dollars, and it halved Sony's marketshare.

Having said that, everybody is entitled to their own personal preferences, so if PS3 was your favourite console last gen, if it was king for you, then that's fair enough.

I can't agree on the first sentence (coming from a country that have an actual King, there is nothing objective or rational about being considered king...XD) , but i can agree on the second one. 

Fair enough, you have your opinion and i do have mine, and that's what is so great about this industry....I wish i could choose always between something that i consider good and some other thing that i consider better. Wii was a fantastic console at the time, and it did some unbelievable things, even for today. I only was defending my point of view, so people could see and accept another perspective, and there is always another one...



curl-6 on 05 October 2018
colafitte said:
curl-6 said:

From an objective point of view, there's not really any case for the PS3 being king; it lost the sales war, it lost billions of dollars, and it halved Sony's marketshare.

Having said that, everybody is entitled to their own personal preferences, so if PS3 was your favourite console last gen, if it was king for you, then that's fair enough.

I can't agree on the first sentence (coming from a country that have an actual King, there is nothing objective or rational about being considered king...XD) , but i can agree on the second one. 

Fair enough, you have your opinion and i do have mine, and that's what is so great about this industry....I wish i could choose always between something that i consider good and some other thing that i consider better. Wii was a fantastic console at the time, and it did some unbelievable things, even for today. I only was defending my point of view, so people could see and accept another perspective, and there is always another one...

Cheers man.

While we have disagreed on a lot of things here, I did want to say you seem a pretty swell person, and I've appreciated our discussion, especially you keeping a very level head when, in retrospect, I think I was a bit unnecessarily provocative. 

I really think I should leave this thread here though, I get the feeling that the various debates I've gotten involved in here are going to rage on endlessly, and since I'm about to head to bed, and I can't afford to get up tomorrow to debate with like three different people when I really should be working, this'll be final post in this thread.

I guess I'll catch you around, nice to have met ya. :)