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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How Sony became king of consoles again

curl-6 said:
COKTOE said:

I've never bolded an entire comment until before. To whom does it not matter? There is no objective case? Are you even remotely aware how badly the PS3 crushed the Wii in terms of software quality? McDonald's sells more food than the premium steak house across the way, but it doesn't make the crap they heat under a lamp a better meal. Perhaps, if the Wii had offered own it's own customers more streak instead of Happy Meals, the Wii brand wouldn't have died so miserably. PS3 had more quality games by a mile. It had much more powerful hardware. It was a multimedia powerhouse. It had a much better online feature set. I won't even get into each of the individual ways, in each specific area that the PS3 demolished the Wii. The "king". A paper tiger next to it's comtemporaries. Including MS, a company I've had to work on not slamming reflexively. But it is what it is. Or was. Wii was popular though!

The PS3 "crushing" the Wii in software quality is purely subjective. I'd say it was the other way around. Similarly, the value of powerful hardware, multimedia capabilities, and online are all subjective. Since the Wii sold more, clearly a lot of people preferred what the Wii had to offer over graphics, multimedia, or online.

Ha! We're not talking about a 1:1 ratio. I asked you if you were even remotely aware how badly the PS3 crushed the Wii in terms of software quality, and the answer is no. No you are not. The gap in high quality titles on PS3 vs the Wii is staggering. It's not even close, and there is no amount of subjectivity that's going to narrow that objectively large gap. And oh yes, that the Wii sold more is truly the most objective way to determine it's quality. Not any other the other objective ways I've already addressed that are actually truly objective. It's not like I've already offered up a decent analogy with the popularity of McDonalds vs a steakhouse to get past that nonsensical concept. Acura makes a better car than Porsche right? Because sells more. 



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

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COKTOE said:
curl-6 said:

The PS3 "crushing" the Wii in software quality is purely subjective. I'd say it was the other way around. Similarly, the value of powerful hardware, multimedia capabilities, and online are all subjective. Since the Wii sold more, clearly a lot of people preferred what the Wii had to offer over graphics, multimedia, or online.

Ha! We're not talking about a 1:1 ratio. I asked you if you were even remotely aware how badly the PS3 crushed the Wii in terms of software quality, and the answer is no. No you are not. The gap in high quality titles on PS3 vs the Wii is staggering. It's not even close, and there is no amount of subjectivity that's going to narrow that objectively large gap. And oh yes, that the Wii sold more is truly the most objective way to determine it's quality. Not any other the other objective ways I've already addressed that are actually truly objective. It's not like I've already offered up a decent analogy with the popularity of McDonalds vs a steakhouse to get past that nonsensical concept. Acura makes a better car than Porsche right? Because sells more. 

All of which is still subjective. What you think makes a game or console good will be different to what I think makes a game or console good, because it's all just a matter of opinion. Entertainment is by its very nature totally subjective because everyone has their own ideas about what is or is not fun.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

curl-6 said:
COKTOE said:

Ah, I see. Thanks for so expertly distilling the topic at hand down to it's essence by posting hardware sales numbers that were never in question.

Ultimately, it's the only data that matters. There is simply no objective case to be made for Sony being the "king" last generation.

Really the the ONLY data that matters?

How about total software sales, where Xbox 360 and PS3 both beat the Wii?

How about the number of good/great games? The Wii has around 100 Wii games with a MetaScore of 80+, the PS3 and Xbox 360 both have over 400 games with a MetaScore of 80+



Conina said:
curl-6 said:

Ultimately, it's the only data that matters. There is simply no objective case to be made for Sony being the "king" last generation.

Really the the ONLY data that matters?

How about total software sales, where Xbox 360 and PS3 both beat the Wii?

How about the number of good/great games? The Wii has around 100 Wii games with a MetaScore of 80+, the PS3 and Xbox 360 both have over 400 games with a MetaScore of 80+

Hardware sales have always determined the winner of a console war. The SNES won the 4th gen because it sold more than the Megadrive, the PS1 won the 5th gen cos it sold more than the N64 or Saturn, the PS2 won the 6th gen cos it sold more than the Xbox or Gamecube, and the Wii won the 7th gen cos it sold more than the PS3 or 360.

And number of good/great games is a matter of opinion. Metacritic merely compiles the subjective opinions of reviewers.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

curl-6 said:
Conina said:

Really the the ONLY data that matters?

How about total software sales, where Xbox 360 and PS3 both beat the Wii?

How about the number of good/great games? The Wii has around 100 Wii games with a MetaScore of 80+, the PS3 and Xbox 360 both have over 400 games with a MetaScore of 80+

Hardware sales have always determined the winner of a console war.

And Metacritic isn't objective, its merely tallies reviews, each of which is a subjective opinion.

The term "win" is subjective always. If you don't establish specific conditions or rules to "win" a game, there  will always be different points of view. If you consider only hardware sales, Wii won, if you consider profits from hardware sales, Wii won....BUT if you consider the number of games in each platform, the number of sales from software for each platform, the amount of 80+ rating games in each platform, the PS3 wins too.

From my point of view, you could say Disney considers Marvel Infinity War wins the best movie of the year because it had the best earnings, but i'm pretty confident that most of the critics or people that value or rate professionaly a film won't consider it never the best just because a film did the best at the box office (and they shoudn't not give the best film just because it was the best seller either).

There's been a lot of successful things in the past that were the hottest thing during a period of time, and then, years past, and people just changed their opinion or eveng forgot them completely. Being succesful financially doesn't always mean that something will be more valuable in the long run.

In your case, Wii was and is still a fantastic console that you enjoyed a lot, but you can use that to think that in 2018, most people will celebrate more the Wii against PS3 because, believe me, first, people have really "bad memory" and second, social perception always changes and people often value a thing just beacuse other tells them to do it.

In my opinion, PS3 brand ended its run in 2013 with a far better shape and consumers recognition that Wii did in 2012. There must be a reason why Wii sales plummeted during 2011 and 2012 with WiiU continuing that drop in the next years while PS3 ended being the number 1 home console during those last years of that gen and then PS4 continuing that position of dominance later with the next gen. I think everyone knows the reason why, even if they don't want to admit it...



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colafitte said:
curl-6 said:

Hardware sales have always determined the winner of a console war.

And Metacritic isn't objective, its merely tallies reviews, each of which is a subjective opinion.

The term "win" is subjective always. If you don't establish specific conditions or rules to "win" a game, there  will always be different points of view. If you consider only hardware sales, Wii won, if you consider profits from hardware sales, Wii won....BUT if you consider the number of games in each platform, the number of sales from software for each platform, the amount of 80+ rating games in each platform, the PS3 wins too.

From my point of view, you could say Disney considers Marvel Infinity War wins the best movie of the year because it had the best earnings, but i'm pretty confident that most of the critics or people that value or rate professionaly a film won't consider it never the best just because a film did the best at the box office (and they shoudn't not give the best film just because it was the best seller either).

There's been a lot of successful things in the past that were the hottest thing during a period of time, and then, years past, and people just changed their opinion or eveng forgot them completely. Being succesful financially doesn't always mean that something will be more valuable in the long run.

In your case, Wii was and is still a fantastic console that you enjoyed a lot, but you can use that to think that in 2018, most people will celebrate more the Wii against PS3 because, believe me, first, people have really "bad memory" and second, social perception always changes and people often value a thing just beacuse other tells them to do it.

In my opinion, PS3 brand ended its run in 2013 with a far better shape and consumers recognition that Wii did in 2012. There must be a reason why Wii sales plummeted during 2011 and 2012 with WiiU continuing that drop in the next years while PS3 ended being the number 1 home console during those last years of that gen and then PS4 continuing that position of dominance later with the next gen. I think everyone knows the reason why, even if they don't want to admit it...

The winner of a generation is and always has been the system that sells the most. In the case of the Wii though, many the self-described "hardcore" couldn't handle the idea of a "casual" Nintendo console beating a "hardcore" Playstation one, and thus manufactured a labyrinth of contrived narratives to try to argue that it somehow magically doesn't count.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

curl-6 said:
colafitte said:

The term "win" is subjective always. If you don't establish specific conditions or rules to "win" a game, there  will always be different points of view. If you consider only hardware sales, Wii won, if you consider profits from hardware sales, Wii won....BUT if you consider the number of games in each platform, the number of sales from software for each platform, the amount of 80+ rating games in each platform, the PS3 wins too.

From my point of view, you could say Disney considers Marvel Infinity War wins the best movie of the year because it had the best earnings, but i'm pretty confident that most of the critics or people that value or rate professionaly a film won't consider it never the best just because a film did the best at the box office (and they shoudn't not give the best film just because it was the best seller either).

There's been a lot of successful things in the past that were the hottest thing during a period of time, and then, years past, and people just changed their opinion or eveng forgot them completely. Being succesful financially doesn't always mean that something will be more valuable in the long run.

In your case, Wii was and is still a fantastic console that you enjoyed a lot, but you can use that to think that in 2018, most people will celebrate more the Wii against PS3 because, believe me, first, people have really "bad memory" and second, social perception always changes and people often value a thing just beacuse other tells them to do it.

In my opinion, PS3 brand ended its run in 2013 with a far better shape and consumers recognition that Wii did in 2012. There must be a reason why Wii sales plummeted during 2011 and 2012 with WiiU continuing that drop in the next years while PS3 ended being the number 1 home console during those last years of that gen and then PS4 continuing that position of dominance later with the next gen. I think everyone knows the reason why, even if they don't want to admit it...

The winner of a generation is and always has been the system that sells the most. In the case of the Wii though, many the self-described "hardcore" couldn't (and still can't) handle the idea of a "casual" Nintendo console beating a "hardcore" Playstation one, and thus manufactured a labyrinth of contrived narratives to try to argue that it somehow magically doesn't count.

Pyrrhus of Epirus won his battle against Rome back then too, but there's a reason why, more than 2000 years later we remember him more for the phrase "pyrrhic victory", which the meaning is "Someone who wins that takes a heavy toll that negates any true sense of achievement". Wii won many battles in their first years, yes, but the brand ultimately lost the war in the end, and Nintendo suffered for years because of that. 

Some people consider that a competition is not about how it begins, but how it ends, and those people will never consider the Wii a winner, no matter how much Wii sold against the PS3 or another console, so the "winner of the generation" is not and never was, just the system that sold the most. The only undisputable fact is that Wii sold the most, that's it. And because there's no official way to give the award of "winner" to one or another, what's only left is cultural perception and personal valoration, and I repeat, you can't trust on the first one. In my case, I don't think Wii consumers remember that console as fondly as PS3 consumers remember their own, but ey, it's just my opinion.



colafitte said:
curl-6 said:

The winner of a generation is and always has been the system that sells the most. In the case of the Wii though, many the self-described "hardcore" couldn't (and still can't) handle the idea of a "casual" Nintendo console beating a "hardcore" Playstation one, and thus manufactured a labyrinth of contrived narratives to try to argue that it somehow magically doesn't count.

Pyrrhus of Epirus won his battle against Rome back then too, but there's a reason why, more than 2000 years later we remember him more for the phrase "pyrrhic victory", which the meaning is "Someone who wins that takes a heavy toll that negates any true sense of achievement". Wii won many battles in their first years, yes, but the brand ultimately lost the war in the end, and Nintendo suffered for years because of that. 

Some people consider that a competition is not about how it begins, but how it ends, and those people will never consider the Wii a winner, no matter how much Wii sold against the PS3 or another console, so the "winner of the generation" is not and never was, just the system that sold the most. The only undisputable fact is that Wii sold the most, that's it. And because there's no official way to give the award of "winner" to one or another, what's only left is cultural perception and personal valoration, and I repeat, you can't trust on the first one. In my case, I don't think Wii consumers remember that console as fondly as PS3 consumers remember their own, but ey, it's just my opinion.

In the end it's simply a matter of denial. Some people still bear such a grudge against the Wii for daring to cater to people other than 13-30 year old males that they can never accept that it beat their preferred system. For as long as video games have competed against one another, outselling the competition has always denoted victory, and the only reason it is contested in this singular case is because of the irrational bias against the Wii, caused by impressionable folks buying into the "us vs them" rhetoric of the time and actually believing that laughable hogwash about how casual gaming was going to destroy the industry.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018

curl-6 said:
COKTOE said:

The Vita did bear the PS name, but it's failure is a once-off anomaly for the PS brand, with a well documented history of abandonment from Sony to accompany it. Nintendo has shit the bed way more often. Sony, and the PS brand, has a consistent level of excellence, with average console sales that no other platform holder can touch. So, with the Wii brand: If the name can't be parlayed into a successful followup, it's dead. And it IS dead. Long dead. That was the Wii-U. Wii is the Sanjaya Malakar of brands.....That's too harsh. It's the William Hung of brands. And again, speaking of dead, a higher percentage than is the norm, as it concerns  console customers, the ones that helped make the Wii software library so amazing, have faded into the ether.

You don't seem to be aware of the specific topic under discussion and how we came to it, and why the Wii U has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

This discussion began with the assertion that "PS never stopped being the king of consoles", which implies that the PS3 was king last gen when it was getting thrashed by the Wii in sales, bleeding billions of dollars, and losing half of the marketshare it inherited from PS2.

The Wii U did not even exist at this time, so it's completely irrelevant.

If Wii trashed PS3 by outselling it by like 15% what do you call Playstation against N64, GC and WiiU?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

You don't seem to be aware of the specific topic under discussion and how we came to it, and why the Wii U has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

This discussion began with the assertion that "PS never stopped being the king of consoles", which implies that the PS3 was king last gen when it was getting thrashed by the Wii in sales, bleeding billions of dollars, and losing half of the marketshare it inherited from PS2.

The Wii U did not even exist at this time, so it's completely irrelevant.

If Wii trashed PS3 by outselling it by like 15% what do you call Playstation against N64, GC and WiiU?

I don't discriminate, I call N64, GC, and Wii U losers just like the PS3, and I call PS1, PS2, and PS4 a winners just like the Wii. I'm not a fanboy, I can accept when my preferred brand doesn't win.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 05 October 2018