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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What exactly do you consider to be "SJW agenda" in games?

 

Does the inclusion of women in BFV bother you?

Yes 15 22.06%
 
No 53 77.94%
 
Total:68

Well there is more to it than just having a woman as the lead. In the case of BFV, it is more about EA's response and bad PR that is rubbing people the wrong way. It became an SJW issue, because they blatantly stated it was pretty much just that. Calling their fanbase "uneducated"did not help matters either.

Horizon Zero Dawn was on the lower end of the spectrum. It was a great game with a great story, and the female lead fit the story they were telling. The SJW aspect of it was that they went out of their way to make most male characters, save for the sun king, out as being bad and single minded whike leaving me struggling to think of a truly bad female character. They even tie feminism directly into some of the conversations that Alloy has with these individuals as well. Just look at the entire hunter's lodge questline for evidence.

Now as for the TLoU2, we have yet to see the full extent of the SJW content. People who are complaining about the lesbian kiss are out of their mind though. It is no different than making homosexuals watch Yuna and Tidus make out in Final Fantasy X. Hell Ellie was confirmed to AT LEAST be bisexual in the first game, so it is not like they are changing her character to cater to another vocal minority.  The SJW argument comes once again from Naughty Dog's responses to the vocal minority. By saying things like, "calm down, it is just a girl" and the like, they are basically taunting their audience similarly to how EA did with BFV. This makes one wonder what other "SJW" content could be found in the game, and if there really is an agenda after all.



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Medisti said:
DonFerrari said:

Even worse, it is against the idea that gay people are regular people. If you have to shoehorn and shove in the face then you are losing your point even before starting.

Being gay is their main, defining personality trait, and all of their interests and thoughts revolve around their sexuality, right?

Oh wait, no. They're normal people who happen to have a difference of preference on one particular thing. Silly me.

not only personality, but the need to show it to everyone at all time =p

Perhaps I just have old people and conservatives as RL close people (even conservative gay people) but they mostly are good people who like gays but don't like the exarcebated ones.

DialgaMarine said:
Mainly just taking historical events or established characters, and altering them in the name of being more inclusive. If a developer wants to make a game staring a gay black transgender female, that’s cool; just make her an original character, and do it because she just seems to fit the game’s narrative and genre. For example, Don’t make a Batman game, and have her replace Bruce Wayne.

A gay black transgender female the size of hulk or very sexy could be a villain or someone cooperating with Batman though, still not necessary, but considering as most people in Batman have some kind of mental disorder (protagonist and co as well) she would fit.

John2290 said:
Anything that aims to inject real world politics or issues into a game for any number of purposes from pandering to creating free advertising from outrage or buzz. I don't mind it if it doesn't detract from the escapism of the game or depending on genre the narrative, immersion or cohesion of the themes but when it's forced it's like a slap in the face and in the times of social media and all this nonsense divisiveness and bickering not many can add these themes and manage it effectively but to those who do, I applaud. I've no issue with games like a might in the woods or Gone home, I won't buy them and only play them if they are free to me, that's the story and game they want to make and I'm sure they know their demographic and potential audience, kudos to them.
For example horizon done it without a whiff until I looked in retrospect at everything they added in, like a matriarchal society full of every race mixed under the sun and a female lead but they implemented without publicizing it or forcing it it and done it well, they never once addressed it as something to applaud and I took it as the story and world they intendedon presenting to me but most of all, it made sense narrativly and, no spoilers but worked cohesively into the world building. It wasn't there for the sake of 'representation' or to make some obvious political point nor for gain of attention.
There is also the issue of a small vocal group of people who demand 'representation' and the games creators to cater to them on hand and knee but I very much doubt the vast majority of them buy the games at the end of the day, so I won't mention it further and any developers or publishers willing to sacrifice a large chunk of their core audience to cator to social activists... well, if it goes badly for them it don't feel any particular way about it.

Yep, you go a lot into the future to a time mankind was basically again at babel tower and after the events of HZD the small sample of that people was also very diverse makes a lot of sense. And they didn't try to point that as how inclusive they were, nor criticize anyone for not liking it.



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Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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thismeintiel said:
DreadPirateRoberts said:

On both, can you link me the actual quotes?  I'd be curious to read the context.

For the Ghostbusters, here's a good vid studying the whole mess.

If you have more time, here's an entertaining review of it that addresses it somewhat.

 

Thanks, but I was hoping for a story with the director's actual quotes, not a 13 minute video featuring a dreadfully boring guy talking about stuff.  There's no way in hell I'm sitting through that.  

As far as the BFV comments goes, I'm going to go ahead and say I find no fault with Soderlund's comments.  I think he is right, and I think Gamerevolution's take on it is fair.  The game is fantasy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with seeking to be more inclusive of all gamers.  So, yeah, if one doesn't like that - or feels threatened by it - don't buy the game.



DreadPirateRoberts said:
thismeintiel said:

For the Ghostbusters, here's a good vid studying the whole mess.

If you have more time, here's an entertaining review of it that addresses it somewhat.

 

Thanks, but I was hoping for a story with the director's actual quotes, not a 13 minute video featuring a dreadfully boring guy talking about stuff.  There's no way in hell I'm sitting through that.  

As far as the BFV comments goes, I'm going to go ahead and say I find no fault with Soderlund's comments.  I think he is right, and I think Gamerevolution's take on it is fair.  The game is fantasy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with seeking to be more inclusive of all gamers.  So, yeah, if one doesn't like that - or feels threatened by it - don't buy the game.

Don't like humor, I see.  It wouldn't matter if you finished watching it.  You would obviously just be fine with what was said to the fans of the original if you find no fault in the BFV situation.  That's ok.  Those opposed to this injection of identity politics will continue to watch as these products fail over and over, again.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 26 August 2018

DreadPirateRoberts said:
thismeintiel said:

For the Ghostbusters, here's a good vid studying the whole mess.

If you have more time, here's an entertaining review of it that addresses it somewhat.

 

Thanks, but I was hoping for a story with the director's actual quotes, not a 13 minute video featuring a dreadfully boring guy talking about stuff.  There's no way in hell I'm sitting through that.  

As far as the BFV comments goes, I'm going to go ahead and say I find no fault with Soderlund's comments.  I think he is right, and I think Gamerevolution's take on it is fair.  The game is fantasy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with seeking to be more inclusive of all gamers.  So, yeah, if one doesn't like that - or feels threatened by it - don't buy the game.

You hoped for the quotes just for you to disregard as you done with BFV right? So why should anyone bother to fetch then for you?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Medisti said:

Being gay is their main, defining personality trait, and all of their interests and thoughts revolve around their sexuality, right?

Oh wait, no. They're normal people who happen to have a difference of preference on one particular thing. Silly me.

not only personality, but the need to show it to everyone at all time =p

Perhaps I just have old people and conservatives as RL close people (even conservative gay people) but they mostly are good people who like gays but don't like the exarcebated ones.


I like pizza, therefore, every aspect of who I am needs to revolve around it. I must wear pizza themed clothing, make clear to everyone I meet my preferences for pizza, and all others are allowed to judge me based on what toppings I like.

It sounds so silly applied to any other personal preference, and personal taste is about as controllable as sexuality. People don’t just decide they like pepperoni better (though trying it may change their mind and my metaphor is falling apart, lol).



DreadPirateRoberts said:
thismeintiel said:

For the Ghostbusters, here's a good vid studying the whole mess.

If you have more time, here's an entertaining review of it that addresses it somewhat.

 

Thanks, but I was hoping for a story with the director's actual quotes, not a 13 minute video featuring a dreadfully boring guy talking about stuff.  There's no way in hell I'm sitting through that.  

As far as the BFV comments goes, I'm going to go ahead and say I find no fault with Soderlund's comments.  I think he is right, and I think Gamerevolution's take on it is fair.  The game is fantasy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with seeking to be more inclusive of all gamers.  So, yeah, if one doesn't like that - or feels threatened by it - don't buy the game.

YOU DON'T LIKE RED LETTER MEDIA! UP WITH THIS I WILL NOT PUT.



The thing is, we had good games with female protagonists. It was totally fine because it wasn't blatant injection of identity politics. Same goes for TLoU 1 and some of the nuances it had.

TLoU 2 is a different story. Now with Druckman helming it, I'm very afraid of what I get from it. Though ND in general has actually gone down the drain IMO.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 27 August 2018

As someone who'd prefer that there'd be no male characters at all in video games, MC or otherwise, I can't say it bothers me.



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LuccaCardoso1 said:

I've heard a lot of people complaining about BFV's inclusion of playable female characters saying that we should boycott the game because women "didn't fight in the war", and because that's "historically inaccurate". First of all, women did fight in the war (yes, mostly for the USSR, but it would be stupid to only allow female characters when you're playing in one specific team). Second of all, Battlefield 1 was also very historically inaccurate, and I didn't see anyone boycotting it because of that.

Let's cut the bullshit: I know that most people are complaining about BFV because they think the inclusion of women means EA is promoting an "SJW agenda" (if you're honestly complaining about historical inaccuracies in BFV, you should maybe take a step back and rethink it. No game is absolutely historically accurate, and they're not supposed to be). But what the hell is an "SJW agenda"?

I've also seen people complaining about TLoU 2 and Horizon ZD for the same reasons, just because they feature women, and, in the first case, a lesbian kiss in one of the trailers.

What is an "SJW agenda"? Is having diverse characters an "SJW thing"? Because, you know, the world is not just made of white cis hetero males, so it's just natural that games would not just have white cis hetero males.

If you think that TLoU 2 and Horizon ZD promote an "SJW agenda", give me some examples of games with diverse characters that don't "appeal to the SJW crowd". I'll just ask you not to cite Tomb Raider (as Lara Croft was [and still is a bit] hyper-sexualized) and Metroid (since most people didn't even know that Samus was a girl before the internet).

I'm genuinely intrigued.

Umm, actually it would not be stupid to allow female soldiers only in a specific faction. It would be more accurate and perhaps even justified, if there even is a Soviet faction in the game, I don't know. Anyways, the whole thing is kind of like saying that because there was a small contingent of women in some company of the Soviet army, suddenly half of all armies should be women which is just ridiculous. There certainly weren't women with prosthetic arms and swords and shit. People with prosthetics would not be put on the front line, men or women. It's just stupid, plain and simple. Why not fairies with IBS while you're at it? There's mostly accurate and then there's fantasy land, that's the problem with the diffrence here. This really is not about women as such, and you know it.

SJW agendas are usually so blatant that you don't have to dig to find them. It's become normal for either the publisher or the dev team to openly talk about "diversity" and how they want to put more of thing x or y into a game, because reasons. These companies are either buying into the bullshit of a small shill group and are virtue signaling, or they feel pressured into "getting with the program" as it were. Either way, this misguided pandering is steering these companies into a collision course with their core customer bases, which in turn is beginning to affect their bottom lines. It's so stupid I can hardly believe it. Get woke, go broke.

Now, am I against diversity? Of course not. Gaming has always been diverse naturally, without a specific need to pump it in artificially. There have been female leads that even have their own franchises. There have been different races without anyone making a fuss about it. There have even been different sexualities, although I admit that they have mostly been very marginal instances and often used for comedic effect. But sexuality really isn't that much of a deal in these worlds and adventures. Most games don't have romance mechanics, so the issue doesn't even come up. Anyone can assign their preferred sexuality to the characters they see, since it isn't usually addressed at all because the game is about something else than personal relationships. However, characters in gaming have always been about *true* diversity, which is to say diversity of thought, background, experiences and such. The sorry excuse for diversity we are being force-fed nowadays is about the most superficial things, like skin color or sexual preference. This is a very immature vision of diversity. It's mundane, it doesn't matter or bring anything of substance to the table. It leads to characters that are out of place, but it most importantly leads to very badly written characters, and this is, I think, the worst problem. Suddenly we have characters whose most defining traits are skin color or sexuality. They appear in the game to talk about their race or sexuality and it has nothing to do with the plot of the game, it's just awkward. They are hollow puppets, whose backstory is that they are of race x or sexuality z. Nobody cares, it has no bearing on the world or the story of the game. These characters just stick out like a sore thumb. Unnatural, forced diversity and crappy storytelling and character building. Remember for instance how they had to fix the character in Mass Effect Andromeda who just out of nowhere started to blabber about his (her?) transgenderism, out of the blue and off topic? It only rubs people the wrong way, because it's clearly political and ideologically driven. It doesn't belong in our entertainment. We go into these worlds to get away from that bullshit, not to be drowned in it. Gamers don't care if a character has green skin and has genitalia that they haven't even seen before, as long as the character is rich and well put together and serves the game world and overall story well.

TLOU2, well, I have to say I'm a little worried about it. Not about Ellie being a lesbian, I already knew and it's not an issue for me anyways. Luckily, Ellie has been such a good and well implemented character that her sexuality is irrelevant, as it should be. I'm worried because the driving force of the first game was the character dynamic between Joel and Ellie and how their personal arcs came together in the process of their journey together. This is gone in the second part, because Joel doesn't seem to be very much of a thing in the game at all. It would be interesting to see how their relationship as "father and daughter" has evolved through the years as they both have become older. I hope they are able to create something else meaningful for her to beef up her story going forward. Is she going to be travelling by herself, or is her character going to be reduced to "look at me, I'm kissing a girl, because I'm lesbian and that's the most important thing about me because lesbian"? I guess there could be a love story between her and some girl, but that isn't enough for a compelling story. It needs more layers.

In Horizon ZD I personally didn't notice any SJW stuff, so I'don't know what that is about. Maybe it's the fact that the first tribe that you come across is a matriarchy that didn't sit well with some people? Not a problem for me, plus this is a fantasy/scifi scenario so anything goes and whoever creates the world gets to make the rules. They are not trying to rewrite history to suit someone's narcissistic need to project their personal traits and agendas into it.

That's pretty much what all this is about, isn't it? Normal people want to admire and love the heroes in movies and games, they want to be those characters. But these SJW's want to project themselves into the story, so that they can be admired by themselves and everyone else. Narcissism 101.