Peh said:
Let's see...
we got 2 people who have no contact with the concept of god. So, they both don't believe in it. According to your definition they would be called "not a theist".
One of them will be shown the concept of god and he rejects the claims with whatever reason he has. His believe hasn't changed, cause he is still not believing in it. But now, you would call him an atheist and the other still "not a theist" while both are lacking the believe. They would still do whatever they did before in life. What if the other forgets about the concept of god? Would he turn back to being "not a theist"?
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When the person is shown the concept of god and rejects it, his position on god is significantly different than it was before.
Previously, his belief was "...". It was non-existent. He had no belief on the concept of god. Now he believes the concept of god is false or not proven. If you asked the guy before and after what he thinks about god, you'd get two completely different answers. If you think that is not a change, idk what to say. I can guarantee that 100 % of the people posting in this topic claiming to be atheists understand the concept of god. If they didn't, they wouldn't be posting. So, that knowledge is making them act differently.
Let me try another another analogy...
If you go to a store and tell them you want to buy a Playstation 4, they will (or at least should) ask you whether you want Playstation 4 Pro, or a Playstation 4 Slim.
Sometimes, I may want to refer to all of the models of PS4. For instance, if I wanted to say "Spider-man is coming out for the PS4." In this case, the statement applies equally to all PS4s so I can use the blanket term.
But, let's say I wanted to say "you can play games in 4K on the PS4". That would not be accurate. Which is why I need the term PS4 Pro.
The term PS4 applies to all of them. But that does not mean they are all the same. So, we need more than one term.
Likewise, there are people who do not believe in God and have no concept of god. There are people who don't believe in god and do have a concept of god.
If I want to talk about only the group that has a concept of god and do not believe (like in the hypothetical study I mentioned earlier), I need a term for that. That term is atheist. If you wanted to distinguish between the two people you're talking about in your hypothetical, how would you do so?
As for them being able to turn back, sure. I started my life as a non-theist (or not a theist). Then, I was told god exists, and since I lacked critical thinking skills, I believed it. So I became a theist. Then I thought about the concept, decided I didn't accept it, and then I was an atheist. And since an atheist is also not a theist, then I also belong to that category again. People change, and when they do certain labels may not apply to them anymore. Dunno why that'd be a problem.
Peh said:
Atheist in itself means "without god". The word itself would apply to both.
I can't really say if that is the better definition. Sorry.
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First off, atheist definitely does not mean without god. Atheist, as we have been using it in this conversation, is a noun. "without god" does not define a noun. So that just can't be right. (Maybe you're thinking of the root word atheos, but that's a different word, and we have refined and changed the concept over the past 4,000 years or so).
But more importantly. There is no one definition of atheist. I can easily find a dozen from reputable sources within the next five minutes. You can find multiple definitions from the same source. We get to choose which one we want.
I feel like I've explained it to the best of my ability. So, if you're not convinced, you're not. Just have one main question to ask and maybe one follow up. (Sort of a convoluted question).
I'm not quite sure how to ask this, but I think you'll get the gist. When you talk about "atheists", what are you talking about? I'm not asking about what you think the definition is, or for something from the dictionary. Personally, what do you mean? When you think of "atheist", what comes to mind? If you saw a topic titled "About Atheists" about whom would you expect it to be about?
Like, without worrying about me objecting to you (and in this case I won't) and without worrying about being "right" or "wrong" how would you describe what you personally mean by atheist as you would usually use it?
Last edited by JWeinCom - on 17 September 2018