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Leynos said:

For most of the reasons people shit on XIII they praise X. Both have a lot of the same problems from being too linear to a terrible plot and characters. Not to mention the godfucking awful Nomura art design strikes again. The only good design he ever put out is when someone told him to stop at some point. Like FF7 and Xenoblade 2 (he designed Jin and Malos)

Linear isn't bad by default. Grandia II is a great RPG but it's also just better paced and written than X even if it's more cliche. Its characters have more character. Yes FFX tried something different but different doesn't mean good. Well, it had an interesting story idea but in the end, it was stupid. Yuna looks insane. For a length of a fart in the wind. Grandia was a competitor to FF. I will die on the hill even with less of a budget. Grandia II is the better game between it and FFX...as long as it's the DC version of Grandia II. That PS2 port was awful.

Nah mate, you gotta understand that there's more to the arguments than just 'one is linear, so is the other, therefore they're both bad'. Almost every complaint boiled down to the idea that the problems with FFXIII went way too far in the wrong direction. 

FFX is linear, with side paths and exploration and room to do shit on the side like minigames and side questing. 

FFXIII might as well have been on rails. Outside of chapter 11 there was almost no side content or exploration or minigames or quests. Outside of one small bit of the total length, the game might as well have been an on-rails RPG both for its world exploration, character choices, and even level progression (the Crystarium).

FFX is a linear game that balances out its linearity with side content. IT balanced it with well explored characters and a more realized world. It balanced it with so many other features and distractions. FFXIII went WAY too far off the deep end with making the game way too linear with little to nothing to do on the side. The difference is the matter of degree, and that matters a lot. you seem to agree with this point yet still seem to think that people are wrong to criticize XIII but praise X despite them havining many similar design aspects. 

The reality is, one of them does it well. The other does not. I also think you're just hilariously wrong about the writing and characters not being good in X. I felt that the writing and characters were some of the best parts of X, but in XIII you needed to read an in-game encyclopedia to even know half of what the fuck was going on at any given time. There's depth in world-building, then there's homework. 



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Bristow9091 said:
BraLoD said:

13 is better than 10... xD

10 = meh

hinch said:

FFX was decent RPG in its own right but an average FF game.

Leynos said:

FFX is shit.

Have to admit I did chuckle at this.. When joining the debate I did think at some point you were going to join in lol. Given your avatar and all xD Like aw hells.. Bristow is going to have a field day.

@Leynos

Its not that bad. They've given us this masterpiece..



Uematsu I like to think is 50% responsible for how special FF used to be. I don't think he can make a bad score. The Last Story is his weakest I know of and even it's still great. The music was the only good part of X. After he left no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to.

Last edited by Leynos - on 15 March 2021

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

hinch said:

I could never get into 12. It had a weird hybrid system that didn't click for me.. it also played like a offline MMO.. not my cup of tea. The characters were also a bit.. eh.

Onto XIII yeah some are insufferable like happy go-getter Vanille, but once you kinda clock out of their weird quirks and awkward dialogue, that probably only work on Japanese dialect and customs its not that bad. Like there was nothing like that laughing Tidus scene in that game lol. But yeah it was the switching back and fourth between specs, balancing offense and defense and working with timing. And getting that stagger for big damage. A mechanic that was added on FF7R.

I don't know not for everyone. I enjoyed it enough to complete and that makes it pretty good imo.

Hey, Vanille and Fang are great!



Bristow9091 said:
BraLoD said:

13 is better than 10... xD

10 = meh

hinch said:

FFX was decent RPG in its own right but an average FF game.

Leynos said:

FFX is shit.

You are honestly one of the best parts of FFX, lol.

Auron and Lulu are nice but Rikku and Wakka... Wakka has to be one of the worst videogame chars ever made.

It's like Zell, but still manages to be a lot worse!



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Leynos said:

Uematsu I like to think is 50% responsible for how special FF used to be. I don't think he can make a bad score. The Last Story is his weakest I know of and even it's still great. The music was the only good part of X. After he left no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to.

I agree with the part where you mention that Uematsu is responsible for 50% of what made the series special.

But to say that no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to since he left? I can’t get behind that. Because while no soundtrack in the series reached the peak of Uematsu’s virtuosity, Hitoshi Sakimoto did an excellent job on FF XII, and there are plenty of really good tracks in both XIII and XV. 

That being said, the soundtrack in FFVII Remake really gives a second life to the music Uematsu composed for the original, and the improvements made to the sounds, either via real instruments or much better sound samples, makes the music one of the strongest highlights of the game. A testament to how outstanding and timeless Uematsu’s compositions are.

Last edited by Hynad - on 15 March 2021

Runa216 said:
Leynos said:

For most of the reasons people shit on XIII they praise X. Both have a lot of the same problems from being too linear to a terrible plot and characters. Not to mention the godfucking awful Nomura art design strikes again. The only good design he ever put out is when someone told him to stop at some point. Like FF7 and Xenoblade 2 (he designed Jin and Malos)

Linear isn't bad by default. Grandia II is a great RPG but it's also just better paced and written than X even if it's more cliche. Its characters have more character. Yes FFX tried something different but different doesn't mean good. Well, it had an interesting story idea but in the end, it was stupid. Yuna looks insane. For a length of a fart in the wind. Grandia was a competitor to FF. I will die on the hill even with less of a budget. Grandia II is the better game between it and FFX...as long as it's the DC version of Grandia II. That PS2 port was awful.

Nah mate, you gotta understand that there's more to the arguments than just 'one is linear, so is the other, therefore they're both bad'. Almost every complaint boiled down to the idea that the problems with FFXIII went way too far in the wrong direction. 

FFX is linear, with side paths and exploration and room to do shit on the side like minigames and side questing. 

FFXIII might as well have been on rails. Outside of chapter 11 there was almost no side content or exploration or minigames or quests. Outside of one small bit of the total length, the game might as well have been an on-rails RPG both for its world exploration, character choices, and even level progression (the Crystarium).

FFX is a linear game that balances out its linearity with side content. IT balanced it with well explored characters and a more realized world. It balanced it with so many other features and distractions. FFXIII went WAY too far off the deep end with making the game way too linear with little to nothing to do on the side. The difference is the matter of degree, and that matters a lot. you seem to agree with this point yet still seem to think that people are wrong to criticize XIII but praise X despite them havining many similar design aspects. 

The reality is, one of them does it well. The other does not. I also think you're just hilariously wrong about the writing and characters not being good in X. I felt that the writing and characters were some of the best parts of X, but in XIII you needed to read an in-game encyclopedia to even know half of what the fuck was going on at any given time. There's depth in world-building, then there's homework. 

Huh? FF 10 exploration is really damn bad. I honestly disliked even thinking "oh damn, I have to walk through here again..."

I mean, yeah, it's more than FF13 as it had virtually none until Gran Pulse, but to say that FF 10 did it well... I honestly rather not have it like 13 than what 10 had.

The best part about 10 was the possibility of having a full turn based combat system.



BraLoD said:
Runa216 said:

Nah mate, you gotta understand that there's more to the arguments than just 'one is linear, so is the other, therefore they're both bad'. Almost every complaint boiled down to the idea that the problems with FFXIII went way too far in the wrong direction. 

FFX is linear, with side paths and exploration and room to do shit on the side like minigames and side questing. 

FFXIII might as well have been on rails. Outside of chapter 11 there was almost no side content or exploration or minigames or quests. Outside of one small bit of the total length, the game might as well have been an on-rails RPG both for its world exploration, character choices, and even level progression (the Crystarium).

FFX is a linear game that balances out its linearity with side content. IT balanced it with well explored characters and a more realized world. It balanced it with so many other features and distractions. FFXIII went WAY too far off the deep end with making the game way too linear with little to nothing to do on the side. The difference is the matter of degree, and that matters a lot. you seem to agree with this point yet still seem to think that people are wrong to criticize XIII but praise X despite them havining many similar design aspects. 

The reality is, one of them does it well. The other does not. I also think you're just hilariously wrong about the writing and characters not being good in X. I felt that the writing and characters were some of the best parts of X, but in XIII you needed to read an in-game encyclopedia to even know half of what the fuck was going on at any given time. There's depth in world-building, then there's homework. 

Huh? FF 10 exploration is really damn bad. I honestly disliked even thinking "oh damn, I have to walk through here again..."

I mean, yeah, it's more than FF13 as it had virtually not until the Gran Pulse, but to say that FF 10 did it well... I honestly rather not have it like 13 than what 10 had.

The best part about 10 was the possibility of having a full turn based combat system.

For me, the biggest slap in the face the game gave me when I first played it was when we finally get the airship... Only for it to be a fucking map that leaves all the fun of controlling an actual airship and zip through the world from above to the oubliettes.

The story was great. But I disliked the look of the world, and the character design was uneven. Music was good, but there was too much elements from the series that were left out for me to really be content with what they gave us with X.

Here’s hoping these elements make a proper come back in the Remake project.



Hynad said:
Leynos said:

Uematsu I like to think is 50% responsible for how special FF used to be. I don't think he can make a bad score. The Last Story is his weakest I know of and even it's still great. The music was the only good part of X. After he left no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to.

I agree with the part where you mention that Uematsu is responsible for 50% of what made the series special.

But to say that no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to since he left? I can’t get behind that. Because while no soundtrack in the series reached the peak of Uematsu’s virtuosity, Hitoshi Sakimoto did an excellent job on FF XII, and there are plenty of really good tracks in both XIII and XV. 

That being said, the soundtrack in FFVII Remake really gives a second life to the music Uematsu composed for the original, and the improvements made to the sounds, either via real instruments or much better sound samples, makes the music one of the strongest highlights of the game. A testament to how outstanding and timeless Uematsu’s compositions are.

FF7R is remixing old tracks and yes they were quite good but it would be like crediting the Xenoblade remake or the Trials of Mana remake as having a new OST when it was also just remixed/redone. FF has never had a bad OST but no new composition has been memorable since Uematsu left FF. I'm glad FF7R got Yasunori Nishiki as he is amazing. His work on Octopath is truly amazing. He is the next great RPG composer. He can be up there with Uematsu, Iwadare, and Mitsuda etc



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:
Hynad said:

I agree with the part where you mention that Uematsu is responsible for 50% of what made the series special.

But to say that no FF soundtrack has been worth listening to since he left? I can’t get behind that. Because while no soundtrack in the series reached the peak of Uematsu’s virtuosity, Hitoshi Sakimoto did an excellent job on FF XII, and there are plenty of really good tracks in both XIII and XV. 

That being said, the soundtrack in FFVII Remake really gives a second life to the music Uematsu composed for the original, and the improvements made to the sounds, either via real instruments or much better sound samples, makes the music one of the strongest highlights of the game. A testament to how outstanding and timeless Uematsu’s compositions are.

FF7R is remixing old tracks and yes they were quite good but it would be like crediting the Xenoblade remake or the Trials of Mana remake as having a new OST when it was also just remixed/redone. FF has never had a bad OST but no new composition has been memorable since Uematsu left FF. I'm glad FF7R got Yasunori Nishiki as he is amazing. His work on Octopath is truly amazing. He is the next great RPG composer. He can be up there with Uematsu, Iwadare, and Mitsuda etc

The main theme of FFXIII and its many variations is an example for me of a track that’s memorable.

And I didn’t mention FFVIIR’s music to say they still make good OSTs. It was pretty obviously worded to support the statement that Uematsu’s music is a huge part of what made the series special.