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Forums - Politics Discussion - United Nations report on the US

DonFerrari said:
JRPGfan said:

Its about redistribution of wealth.
Normally that works best if you have high taxes (on the rich), and much lower ones on the poor, this gives you a more balanced country (with overall less poor).

So no its not a consequence of increaseing government & taxes.
Its whats done with it.
In the USA you guys simply just dont prioritise helping the weak & poor, as much as other parts of the world does.

The american dream is just that..... a dream.
If your weak & poor, sick, in the USA you ll likely stay that way.
Other parts of the world, you ll atleast get help, and have a fighting chance to rise.

When you study economy you'll see how good of an outcome you have from high taxes on rich... I'll tell you the basic outcomes, higher prices (because they'll roll the increases to the product price), desinvestment (risk not worth), or moving money overseas (which already occurred several times in USA due to previous increase in costs).

Giving more power and money to government only increases the bad usage, appropriation and abuse of power.

If you want to think other way I won't use my time to show you how bad the outcomes of socialism have been so far.

Giving more power and money to the rich only increases the bad usage, appropriation and abuse of power.

Oh, amuse us. Just waiting to see how much worse off Germany or the BeNeLux countries or the Scandinavian are for having social democratic values with high taxes compared to the US.

Overseas money in the US is largely just money from corporations and holding companies, the taxable money from their oversea subsidiaries. US private persons generally have not much money parked overseas - simply because the taxes in the US are already dead low for them, even moreso after Trumps tax cut. The problem is that the wealth they generate also stays in their circles, and only a very small amount trickles down to the general public. With US schools being chronically underfunded (a side effect from the low taxes, I might add), the chances to rise up in social standing are also getting smaller and smaller. These are the main reasons why the US have such high inequalities.

There's one chance though: US have not only full employment, but since last month actually more job openings than job seekers. And with Trump cutting back so hard on immigration, these openings won't get filled anytime soon. Such a situation normally leads to rising salaries, as it's not the employees competing against non-employed workers for jobs anymore, but the companies competing against each other to get the talents they need. And the only way to really ensure someone picks their company and not another one is by having an above average paycheck for the job.



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DonFerrari said:
That is consequence of increasing government and taxes, a very effective way to take money from the poor and deliver to the elite that marry the politicians.

Federal taxes in the US have genreally been decreasing, while inequality has generally been increasing. This sort of shoots a hole in your theory that taxes are the source of this inequality. Not to mention that the developed countries with the most social mobility are countries with high taxes and large governments, like Denmark, Canada, Norway and Finland.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
DonFerrari said:

When you study economy you'll see how good of an outcome you have from high taxes on rich... I'll tell you the basic outcomes, higher prices (because they'll roll the increases to the product price), desinvestment (risk not worth), or moving money overseas (which already occurred several times in USA due to previous increase in costs).

Giving more power and money to government only increases the bad usage, appropriation and abuse of power.

If you want to think other way I won't use my time to show you how bad the outcomes of socialism have been so far.

Giving more power and money to the rich only increases the bad usage, appropriation and abuse of power.

Oh, amuse us. Just waiting to see how much worse off Germany or the BeNeLux countries or the Scandinavian are for having social democratic values with high taxes compared to the US.

Overseas money in the US is largely just money from corporations and holding companies, the taxable money from their oversea subsidiaries. US private persons generally have not much money parked overseas - simply because the taxes in the US are already dead low for them, even moreso after Trumps tax cut. The problem is that the wealth they generate also stays in their circles, and only a very small amount trickles down to the general public. With US schools being chronically underfunded (a side effect from the low taxes, I might add), the chances to rise up in social standing are also getting smaller and smaller. These are the main reasons why the US have such high inequalities.

There's one chance though: US have not only full employment, but since last month actually more job openings than job seekers. And with Trump cutting back so hard on immigration, these openings won't get filled anytime soon. Such a situation normally leads to rising salaries, as it's not the employees competing against non-employed workers for jobs anymore, but the companies competing against each other to get the talents they need. And the only way to really ensure someone picks their company and not another one is by having an above average paycheck for the job.

As I said to the two others, I won't discuss this here.

Teeqoz said:
DonFerrari said:
That is consequence of increasing government and taxes, a very effective way to take money from the poor and deliver to the elite that marry the politicians.

Federal taxes in the US have genreally been decreasing, while inequality has generally been increasing. This sort of shoots a hole in your theory that taxes are the source of this inequality. Not to mention that the developed countries with the most social mobility are countries with high taxes and large governments, like Denmark, Canada, Norway and Finland.

Haven't said taxes are the source of inequality, have said it is a usage of money transfer from poor to rich through the relationship of these with the government.

Go and see if Denmark, Norway and Finland have a free market or not.



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There is no solution to this. You either have A) middle class only where no one, no matter how hard they work, can never rise to a higher quality of life but are just simply sustained at "meh, I get by" or B) rich and poor people and a middle class.

You hear people argue that they have more money so they should be taxed and then you hear people argue that they worked hard for that money or inherited it from someone else who did. There lazy people (sluggards, in the Bible, book of Proverbs, for instance) and then there are people that are poor because of no fault of their own. There isn't a cookie cutter solution to this and that is what we've been trying to do and failing on a global scale for centuries.



Teeqoz said:
DonFerrari said:
That is consequence of increasing government and taxes, a very effective way to take money from the poor and deliver to the elite that marry the politicians.

Federal taxes in the US have genreally been decreasing, while inequality has generally been increasing. This sort of shoots a hole in your theory that taxes are the source of this inequality. Not to mention that the developed countries with the most social mobility are countries with high taxes and large governments, like Denmark, Canada, Norway and Finland.

Oranges and apples. Homogeneous countries have homogeneous outcomes, diverse countries have diverse outcomes.



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DonFerrari said:
Teeqoz said:

Federal taxes in the US have genreally been decreasing, while inequality has generally been increasing. This sort of shoots a hole in your theory that taxes are the source of this inequality. Not to mention that the developed countries with the most social mobility are countries with high taxes and large governments, like Denmark, Canada, Norway and Finland.

Haven't said taxes are the source of inequality, have said it is a usage of money transfer from poor to rich through the relationship of these with the government.

Go and see if Denmark, Norway and Finland have a free market or not.

Norway, Demark and Finland all have a free market with some regulations, like most developed nations. I'm not sure what your point is? I never argued against having a free market. It has literally nothing to do with what I said.

 Do you think taxes transfer money from the poor to the rich, but at the same time you don't think taxes cause inequality? You can't pick one, the first implies the second and vice versa. If taxes take money from the poor and give to the rich it necesarily causes economic inequality (not the only cause, but it necessarily has to be one of the causes).



Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

What do they pay attention to?

Everything else. The UN isn't really seen as an authority or of any real consequence to Americans. Most people don't even pay attention to politics in general. 

And they're generally disliked as another thing the US subsidizes that provides no real benefit to us.



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The lowest earning 51% already don't pay federal taxes in the US. I guess are others arguing that we need to give more entitlements to those folks by taxing the rich and middle class higher?



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Megiddo said:
epicurean said:
I am very much middle class in America - probably closer to lower middle class than upper middle class. But if you look on a worldwide scale, I'm in the top 1%. That's amazing to me.

Median individual income in the United States is $31,000.

So 50% of the country is making less money than that annually.

That should give you an idea of if you are "lower middle" or "upper middle".

For most people, middle class doesn't start until you get closer to 50-60k/year. Depends on the part of the country as you can live very comfortably and own a home on a lot less than that, but there are places where you live paycheck to paycheck on 75k.



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And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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numberwang said:
Teeqoz said:

Federal taxes in the US have genreally been decreasing, while inequality has generally been increasing. This sort of shoots a hole in your theory that taxes are the source of this inequality. Not to mention that the developed countries with the most social mobility are countries with high taxes and large governments, like Denmark, Canada, Norway and Finland.

Oranges and apples. Homogeneous countries have homogeneous outcomes, diverse countries have diverse outcomes.

It does, together with the aforementioned fact that taxes in the US have been on a long term downward trend while inequality has been increasing, disprove his hypothesis that taxes and large governments leads to current American conditions.