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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Regarding Switch third party support: Developers don't care about power

vivster said:

And I will continue to dismiss the Switch as yet another first party-centric Nintendo console, thank you. Probably because it is, as evidenced by the lack of pretty much every current gen multiplatform AAA game.

Do you think the big publishers ditch all the potential money on a successful platform like the Switch for fun? What is your reasoning for the lack of AAA games if it's apparently so easy to port to?

 

vivster said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

Read the actual post. Nowhere did I say that the Switch will get every AAA game, nor did I say all AAA games will be easily converted to it. Quite the opposite really. Most of the more ambitious AAA games obviously aren't coming to Switch because you can shrink those graphics down to tablet hardware. However, we will see a lot more HD remasters, mid-budget games, exclusives, and less demanding AAA titles come to the Switch going forward. Yes, we won't be playing the latest Assasin's Creed on the Switch for obvious reasons, but there's still plenty of PS4 and Xbox One content that could be ported over with ease. 

You might want to read your own thread title, but to me it sounds like you're saying developers and even more so publishers care very much about power. And it's not like only a few or even half of all AAA are not coming to the Switch. The vast majority isn't coming to the Switch, which is quite telling where the publisher's priorities are and what they "care" about. You are saying that there will be remasters of older games, which again, sounds like people do care about power since they can only afford to port old games.

I am saying the vast majority of current gen AAA games are not coming the Switch because developers and publishers care very much about power. Do you have anything that suggests the opposite like your thread title claims?

That smaller devs do not care much about the Switch's power because their games don't require it is not really a revelation.

/thread



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TheMisterManGuy said:
vivster said:

You might want to read your own thread title, but to me it sounds like you're saying developers and even more so publishers care very much about power. And it's not like only a few or even half of all AAA are not coming to the Switch. The vast majority isn't coming to the Switch, which is quite telling where the publisher's priorities are and what they "care" about. You are saying that there will be remasters of older games, which again, sounds like people do care about power since they can only afford to port old games.

I am saying the vast majority of current gen AAA games are not coming the Switch because developers and publishers care very much about power. Do you have anything that suggests the opposite like your thread title claims?

That smaller devs do not care much about the Switch's power because their games don't require it is not really a revelation.

Well for starters, many upcoming AAA games started development before the Switch was released, let alone became a well known hit. After all, Nintendo was coming off the heals of their worst received home console ever, both commercially and critically, so it's natural that they'd be skeptical of it. Not only is the Switch a massive success, but third party ports and games are actually selling on it. Doom and Skyrim did very well for Bethesda.

Second, what I mean by developers not caring about power is that by and large, they just want hardware that's easy to develop for. Sure, having enough power is important to them, but only for high taxing AAA titles. Less demanding AAA games and ones built on flexible middle-ware like Unreal Engine 4, can be developed with the Switch in mind going forward. AAA games are actually an ever increasing minority in the gaming industry due to rising development costs for said titles, so while big ambitious games like Assassin's Creed, and Red Dead two won't get ported to Switch because they can't run on it, other games like Soul Calibur 6 most likely can run on it. The point isn't that the Switch is the best place to play all the latest and greatest AAA games, the point is that it offers a unique experience for third party games that can be able to run on it. We won't see the new Assasin's Creed, or any Super demanding AAA game on Switch, but we will see indie games, innovative exclusives, mid-budget titles, HD re-releases, and less taxing AAA titles release for the Switch. 

So overall, unless it's an incredibly demanding game, developers don't care how powerful the Switch is. 

So what you are saying is "developers who don't care about power don't care about power and developers who do care about power do care about power but they don't matter". Glad we have a thread now to make this complex issue clear.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Western Third Party support is bad, and will continue to be bad. Power plays a factor in this, it'd why switch couldn't get the likes of Mass Effect Andromeda, Witcher 3 or the next mainline Fallout/elder Scrolls games, even if the developers wanted to. But it's not the only factor.

Here's a list of third party console releases that the switch has missed out on in 2018, just January to May:
Kerbal Space Program
Monster Hunter World
Dragonball Fighter Z
UFC 3
Dynasty Warriors 9
Kingdom Come Deliverance
Metal Gear Survive "ew"
Sword Art Online Fatal Bullet
De Blob 2: Remastered
Gravel
Devil May Cry HD Collection
Surviving Mars
Burnout Paradise Remastered
AC: rouge remastered
A Way Out
Far Cry 5
Mx vs ATV: All Out
Hellblade

Battlezone Gold Edition
Super Mega Baseball 2
Conan Exiles
Laser League

Now out of those games I'd say only about 6 are probably down to power issues, power is an issue, it will stop big AAA blockbusters like Farcry 5 ever coming, but it's not the only factor.



vivster said: 

So what you are saying is "developers who don't care about power don't care about power and developers who do care about power do care about power but they don't matter". Glad we have a thread now to make this complex issue clear.

 

Barkley said:
Western Third Party support is bad, and will continue to be bad. Power plays a factor in this, it'd why switch couldn't get the likes of Mass Effect Andromeda, Witcher 3 or the next mainline Fallout/elder Scrolls games, even if the developers wanted to. But it's not the only factor.

Here's a list of third party console releases that the switch has missed out on in 2018, just January to May:
Kerbal Space Program
Monster Hunter World
Dragonball Fighter Z
UFC 3
Dynasty Warriors 9
Kingdom Come Deliverance
Metal Gear Survive "ew"
Sword Art Online Fatal Bullet
De Blob 2: Remastered
Gravel
Devil May Cry HD Collection
Surviving Mars
Burnout Paradise Remastered
AC: rouge remastered
A Way Out
Far Cry 5
Mx vs ATV: All Out
Hellblade

Battlezone Gold Edition
Super Mega Baseball 2
Conan Exiles
Laser League

Now out of those games I'd say only about 6 are probably down to power issues, power is an issue, it will stop big AAA blockbusters like Farcry 5 ever coming, but it's not the only factor.

I'm not saying power isn't important, I never said that. I'm saying that aside from the obvious exceptions, developers don't care about power so long as they can port easily to it. A good majority of those titles skipping the Switch have more to do with the publishers and developers initially unsure of the Switch's success, and to an extent is still unsure, and want another year or so before they commit. 



TheMisterManGuy said:

I'm not saying power isn't important, I never said that. I'm saying that aside from the obvious exceptions, developers don't care about power so long as they can port easily to it. A good majority of those titles skipping the Switch have more to do with the publishers and developers initially unsure of the Switch's success, and to an extent is still unsure, and want another year or so before they commit. 

And if the machine has a lot of power they will be able to port easily to it. Those two things aren't exclusive, the amount of power a system has is directly involved with how easy it is to port to, and that's not just the case when porting to a weaker machine. The more powerful it is the less optimisations for that specific machine they have to make, they can just brute-force that shit and not put in the effort.

Porting games between PS4/XBO/PC is way easier than Switch, which is why games that could run (AC:Rogue) aren't on the Switch, because they can't be bothered putting effort in. Relatively the Switch ISN'T an easy device to port to.



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Barkley said: 

Porting games between PS4/XBO/PC is way easier than Switch, which is why games that could run (AC:Rogue) aren't on the Switch, because they can't be bothered putting effort in. Relatively the Switch ISN'T an easy device to port to.

You'd have an argument, if this was actually true. But the vast majority of developers have said that the Switch is very easy to port to. As easy as porting to any platform. Square Enix even said that its very similar to the PS4 in terms of core architecture. Power is only important to porting if the game itself requires a lot of power. Of course, porting a highly demanding game like Doom or Read Dead 2 will take a lot more work on the Switch. But are you really going to sit here and tell me that an HD remaster of a last gen game can't be ported over with ease due to power? 



They do.

If you got a sucessful underpowered system, they obviously care about making money, so they will make cheap ports if it's worth it and technicly feasible, for an easy buck. But, the latest stuff doesn't come over. But, it's obviously not the only issue.



TheMisterManGuy said:
Barkley said: 

Porting games between PS4/XBO/PC is way easier than Switch, which is why games that could run (AC:Rogue) aren't on the Switch, because they can't be bothered putting effort in. Relatively the Switch ISN'T an easy device to port to.

You'd have an argument, if this was actually true. But the vast majority of developers have said that the Switch is very easy to port to. As easy as porting to any platform. Square Enix even said that its very similar to the PS4 in terms of core architecture. Power is only important to porting if the game itself requires a lot of power. Of course, porting a highly demanding game like Doom or Read Dead 2 will take a lot more work on the Switch. But are you really going to sit here and tell me that an HD remaster of a last gen game can't be ported over with ease due to power? 

Lots of excess power makes porting easy, what I said is true. Obviously porting between PS4/XBO is easier than Switch/PS4. Don't take every little thing a Developer says in PR as gospel.

And no, the HD remasters not being ported isn't down to power that's not what I was saying, in that case it's down to the hardware differences, whilst XBO and PS4 are practically identical.

 



FarleyMcFirefly said:

 

"OneTime said:
Most game engines are good at dealing with a variety of different strength CPU and GPUs.

In any case, the “Nintendo needs ports” argument is a fallacy. People who want those kinds of games will buy a PS4. Nintendo need a different market. Look at XBOne: other than occasional games like Halo it hasn’t found its own thing to differentiate, so (probably randomly) PS4 won this round."



No, I think there are enough people out there like me who purchase and really enjoy third party games, but only own Nintendo consoles.  I hope Switch gets as many third party games as possible.

 

Maybe - but then the question is: will ports of PS4 games do well on Switch?   Nintendo are not stopping people producing developers trying.

Game authoring software automatically tunes graphics for the hardware - otherwise PC and mobile gaming wouldn’t be a thing. I just don’t think that God of War sits next to Kirby on the supermarket shelf.  



so state the obvious for what reason? feeling the switch is being bullied?