Forums - Movies Discussion - Roseanne got cancelled

SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Isn't it common consensus at this point in time, aside from religion, that Homo sapiens eventually evolved from apes/monkeys/chimps/etc, and that the cradle of all human life originated in Africa? Wouldn't that then mean every single human being is some part black, and some portion primate? Meaning anyone who referred to anybody else as an ape would be a racist based solely on political correctness as it is understood by some, but technically would be biologically correct?

2 things.

1. We didn't evolve from apes or monkeys.  Apes and monkeys share a common ancestor with us.  From that common ancestor came apes, monkeys and humans.  Science classes in the mid to late 20th century did a really botched job on that whole evolution thing.

2. Black is merely a pigmentation selection based on natural selection for handling the climate nearer the equator.  Early humans were of lighter skin tones because we had thicker hair all over.  The darker tones came later as we lost hair and those with darker tones were better able to cope in warmer climates.

True,move whatever skincolour to colder regions and they would turn white in far future and vice versa.



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Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Isn't it common consensus at this point in time, aside from religion, that Homo sapiens eventually evolved from apes/monkeys/chimps/etc, and that the cradle of all human life originated in Africa? Wouldn't that then mean every single human being is some part black, and some portion primate? Meaning anyone who referred to anybody else as an ape would be a racist based solely on political correctness as it is understood by some, but technically would be biologically correct?

If you go by history, and how calling blacks monkeys, apes, hell you even have cartoons and other material that show examples of this all the time.  So no, it was not stated as anything but a slur to dehumanize a race.  Hell back in the day, they had so called scientist try to portray blacks as a sub human species so they could make their case for enslavement.  Basically what you are saying is garbage.  The whole meaning of calling another race an animal is to make then appear to be subhuman and thus progragate hate for that group.  Its to make them look less then human so when you do inhuman things to them you can state they do not have human status.  Read up on this stuff so that you can understand why this is not a trivial matter.

Well black people were also called the 'N' word, which was degrading, and yet they go out of their way to call each other that same word today. Now they say it has different meaning when they say it to each other, yet if a white person wants to use it with the new non degrading meaning, typically it's still a big no no. Political correctness makes it clear that this cannot be the case, that the 'N' word can only mean one thing and one thing only, and you cannot change the meaning to suit one's needs whatever they may be.

Calling a group of woman "chicks" isn't degrading, unless your a hardcore feminist. Telling a man his 'unit' is as big as a "horse" isn't degrading. If you asked people what type of animal they think of given the word "Americans", they would mostly say "Bald Eagle", which can be assumed isn't degrading since it's their national bird and is slapped on everything American. What matters in all these cases is the meaning behind the word or phrase. That is why nobody should have immediately jumped to conclusions based on what she said. You can assume whatever you want right away, but without understanding what was intended exactly, you cannot make a sound judgement.

SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Isn't it common consensus at this point in time, aside from religion, that Homo sapiens eventually evolved from apes/monkeys/chimps/etc, and that the cradle of all human life originated in Africa? Wouldn't that then mean every single human being is some part black, and some portion primate? Meaning anyone who referred to anybody else as an ape would be a racist based solely on political correctness as it is understood by some, but technically would be biologically correct?

2 things.

1. We didn't evolve from apes or monkeys.  Apes and monkeys share a common ancestor with us.  From that common ancestor came apes, monkeys and humans.  Science classes in the mid to late 20th century did a really botched job on that whole evolution thing.

2. Black is merely a pigmentation selection based on natural selection for handling the climate nearer the equator.  Early humans were of lighter skin tones because we had thicker hair all over.  The darker tones came later as we lost hair and those with darker tones were better able to cope in warmer climates.

1. I couldn't find a solid source in a reasonable amount of time, that's why I used a few examples to get my point across. It would still mean we share some of the same DNA. The fact that she specifically used ape would then seem to have more meaning, but that is also assuming she understands our genetic history that detailed as well.

2. Not sure where this fits in but I mostly agree. I wasn't aware of the lighter skin tones due to more hair but it sort of makes sense. However, my purebred dog has pretty thick hair and is a Golden Lab, yet his skin is jet black underneath though so.

Immersiveunreality said:
SpokenTruth said:

2 things.

1. We didn't evolve from apes or monkeys.  Apes and monkeys share a common ancestor with us.  From that common ancestor came apes, monkeys and humans.  Science classes in the mid to late 20th century did a really botched job on that whole evolution thing.

2. Black is merely a pigmentation selection based on natural selection for handling the climate nearer the equator.  Early humans were of lighter skin tones because we had thicker hair all over.  The darker tones came later as we lost hair and those with darker tones were better able to cope in warmer climates.

True,move whatever skincolour to colder regions and they would turn white in far future and vice versa.

This should be the case yes, but you also have albino's in warmer climates. Biology is a weird thing sometimes and mother nature can be unpredictable, kind of like Roseanne, which doesn't make it a surprise why people like to hate her, since so many love to hate the weather, when it doesn't cooperate.



Did someone finally talk enough sense into Roseanne? (No easy feat I'm sure) Her twitter went dark 5/31 and not a peep out of her since. Too little, too late however, she should've gotten off Twiiter months ago.



RaptorChrist said:
What bothers me is how television networks feel the need to do something so drastic like this. Now, I certainly don't know the whole story, but my initial reaction is that what Roseanne did was probably on her own accord, unaffiliated with ABC. Sure, ABC can cancel the show, that's their right, but at that point I wouldn't put the blame entirely on Roseanne Barr.

Actually companies have been firing employees for stuff like this for a long time.  Anytime you make public statements when you are a public figure hired by another company, you risk your opinions causing you to lose your job.  Since the show was titled after the actor, its very hard to just replace that actor.  Also, no one knows what other things within Roseann contract that were based on her conduct.  I know that the company I work for has within their contract that public racial comments can be disciplined up to firing.  The blame is totally Roseann Barr because she knew that this type of behavior was not acceptable.  This is why you probably will not see a wrongful termination suit or anything along those lines.  She may have felt she was bigger than her mouth but she found out that maybe she should either make her accounts private, get off social media or just shut up.



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

If you go by history, and how calling blacks monkeys, apes, hell you even have cartoons and other material that show examples of this all the time.  So no, it was not stated as anything but a slur to dehumanize a race.  Hell back in the day, they had so called scientist try to portray blacks as a sub human species so they could make their case for enslavement.  Basically what you are saying is garbage.  The whole meaning of calling another race an animal is to make then appear to be subhuman and thus progragate hate for that group.  Its to make them look less then human so when you do inhuman things to them you can state they do not have human status.  Read up on this stuff so that you can understand why this is not a trivial matter.

Well black people were also called the 'N' word, which was degrading, and yet they go out of their way to call each other that same word today. Now they say it has different meaning when they say it to each other, yet if a white person wants to use it with the new non degrading meaning, typically it's still a big no no. Political correctness makes it clear that this cannot be the case, that the 'N' word can only mean one thing and one thing only, and you cannot change the meaning to suit one's needs whatever they may be.

Calling a group of woman "chicks" isn't degrading, unless your a hardcore feminist. Telling a man his 'unit' is as big as a "horse" isn't degrading. If you asked people what type of animal they think of given the word "Americans", they would mostly say "Bald Eagle", which can be assumed isn't degrading since it's their national bird and is slapped on everything American. What matters in all these cases is the meaning behind the word or phrase. That is why nobody should have immediately jumped to conclusions based on what she said. You can assume whatever you want right away, but without understanding what was intended exactly, you cannot make a sound judgement.

This should be the case yes, but you also have albino's in warmer climates. Biology is a weird thing sometimes and mother nature can be unpredictable, kind of like Roseanne, which doesn't make it a surprise why people like to hate her, since so many love to hate the weather, when it doesn't cooperate

Why do you think blacks call each other the N word but do not allow others races to do the same.  Do you even know the connotations the N word has within the black community or is it that you hear a word and do not understand the meaning within that group.  Also do you believe every black person call other black people the N word or is it that you hear music or a group within a group say it and associate it with all black people. Do you understand what connotation means since since it appear in your first paragraph you do not understand that words can have different meanings based on how, when and where they are used.  

Let me ask you this question but I doubt you could really know the meaning or understand.  If the tables were turned and whatever race you belong to was considered as Apes or monkeys, would you consider that ok.  Instead of people considering you as a Human, they instead look at your group as another animal.  Do humans consider Apes and monkeys on the same equal level as another human.  Do we not still cage Apes and monkeys for our amusement.  Do we as a society see them having human rights and privileges.

The fact of the matter is that Roseann should have kept her trap shut.  Name calling someone and leaving it up to others to determine what she meant was always going to end wrong when you spew hateful speech in public.  Being a public figure with your own show on a network owned by Disney probably wasn't going to go and ask you what you meant when you make a statement like this.  The fact that people lose their jobs all the time over dumb stuff like this probably should make people understand keep your comments private.



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Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Well black people were also called the 'N' word, which was degrading, and yet they go out of their way to call each other that same word today. Now they say it has different meaning when they say it to each other, yet if a white person wants to use it with the new non degrading meaning, typically it's still a big no no. Political correctness makes it clear that this cannot be the case, that the 'N' word can only mean one thing and one thing only, and you cannot change the meaning to suit one's needs whatever they may be.

Calling a group of woman "chicks" isn't degrading, unless your a hardcore feminist. Telling a man his 'unit' is as big as a "horse" isn't degrading. If you asked people what type of animal they think of given the word "Americans", they would mostly say "Bald Eagle", which can be assumed isn't degrading since it's their national bird and is slapped on everything American. What matters in all these cases is the meaning behind the word or phrase. That is why nobody should have immediately jumped to conclusions based on what she said. You can assume whatever you want right away, but without understanding what was intended exactly, you cannot make a sound judgement.

This should be the case yes, but you also have albino's in warmer climates. Biology is a weird thing sometimes and mother nature can be unpredictable, kind of like Roseanne, which doesn't make it a surprise why people like to hate her, since so many love to hate the weather, when it doesn't cooperate

Why do you think blacks call each other the N word but do not allow others races to do the same.  Do you even know the connotations the N word has within the black community or is it that you hear a word and do not understand the meaning within that group.  Also do you believe every black person call other black people the N word or is it that you hear music or a group within a group say it and associate it with all black people. Do you understand what connotation means since since it appear in your first paragraph you do not understand that words can have different meanings based on how, when and where they are used.  

Let me ask you this question but I doubt you could really know the meaning or understand.  If the tables were turned and whatever race you belong to was considered as Apes or monkeys, would you consider that ok.  Instead of people considering you as a Human, they instead look at your group as another animal.  Do humans consider Apes and monkeys on the same equal level as another human.  Do we not still cage Apes and monkeys for our amusement.  Do we as a society see them having human rights and privileges.

The fact of the matter is that Roseann should have kept her trap shut.  Name calling someone and leaving it up to others to determine what she meant was always going to end wrong when you spew hateful speech in public.  Being a public figure with your own show on a network owned by Disney probably wasn't going to go and ask you what you meant when you make a statement like this.  The fact that people lose their jobs all the time over dumb stuff like this probably should make people understand keep your comments private.

I grew up on a farm, and still live in that same area, and spend time on the farm as well a friends farm. Many different races working on them, and some blacks, and yes they use the word often enough. They explained to me once it's because it's basically 'their' word now and having the freedom to do what they want with it makes them feel great and brings them together, much like how war brings nations together. This makes some sense, but my point was political correctness, which is pushed by many races, which doesn't allow for this type of thing to make any sense whatsoever, yet they allow it just because. It doesn't surprise me though since that's typically a Liberal trait, making rules for others to follow, and not following them yourself. I see it all the time, constantly, and grew up with it everyday too. Just because I don't get specific, like down to every black person who's ever used that word, doesn't mean I think they all use it, just like how I understand not all Liberals break their own rules, and that some Conservatives do as well.

BTW, thanks for not asking to have me punished/banned immediately. I appreciate the time taken to ask before labeling me and deciding if I'm a deplorable or not. That's the way it should be regardless of what 'should or shouldn't have happened'.

No, I'm not black or a minority, but I sure didn't grow up "privileged" in the way most would understand it. The farm alone should say enough in terms of wealth, but with a partial feminist Liberal mother, hard working generous Conservative father, and man child of a younger brother, our household was a nightmare. Being a poorer family in the general community was an embarrassment as far as she was concerned, and took that hate out on us. She treated my father and I like absolute crap, and did everything possible to run us into the ground, where as my brother could do no wrong, since he wasn't expected to help, and got away with everything. Due to this, by the time I was an adult, the only way you were going to break me, was with your fists, if you were lucky. When people throw negative words at me of any kind, I end up having to see the doctor to make sure my guts are ok because they hurt so bad from laughing so hard. Today, my Liberal brother, will basically cry if I simply look at him the wrong way, yet he still talks down to me often enough, knowing full well it's useless anyway.

So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't be hurt if someone called me everything under the sun known to man to be demeaning. Words only have detrimental outcomes if people themselves allow them to. Ever tell a woman she looks great in that dress, only to have her chew your head off because 'she knows she looks fat'? It's no wonder some people say horrible things sometimes. I mean, if your getting in trouble regardless, there's no point in holding back, so you might as well lay it on thick while your at it. Trump lives by this.

I do agree there was little reason for Roseanne to post that on Twitter. That's the kind of thing that if your going to say it, do it in a small group of people you know think the same, or just won't care. Not exactly the type of thing I would say is normal to talk about in general, but if she was drugged up or drunk, well, people do stupid stuff under the influence so you can't expect them to be as accountable under those circumstances. Drunk driving would have been less of a punishment than what happened to her and everyone else involved, right down to the fans. Nobody was killed or injured. If this was a rare occurrence, it would be somewhat less of an issue based on how ABC handled it, but since this is a regular thing for her, shooting her mouth off, then either ABC shouldn't have even bothered in the first place, or should have dealt with it taking everything into account, not just that one tweet and it's angry mob.

Thank goodness individual people or small groups can't legally have push button nukes.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 05 June 2018

EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Why do you think blacks call each other the N word but do not allow others races to do the same.  Do you even know the connotations the N word has within the black community or is it that you hear a word and do not understand the meaning within that group.  Also do you believe every black person call other black people the N word or is it that you hear music or a group within a group say it and associate it with all black people. Do you understand what connotation means since since it appear in your first paragraph you do not understand that words can have different meanings based on how, when and where they are used.  

Let me ask you this question but I doubt you could really know the meaning or understand.  If the tables were turned and whatever race you belong to was considered as Apes or monkeys, would you consider that ok.  Instead of people considering you as a Human, they instead look at your group as another animal.  Do humans consider Apes and monkeys on the same equal level as another human.  Do we not still cage Apes and monkeys for our amusement.  Do we as a society see them having human rights and privileges.

The fact of the matter is that Roseann should have kept her trap shut.  Name calling someone and leaving it up to others to determine what she meant was always going to end wrong when you spew hateful speech in public.  Being a public figure with your own show on a network owned by Disney probably wasn't going to go and ask you what you meant when you make a statement like this.  The fact that people lose their jobs all the time over dumb stuff like this probably should make people understand keep your comments private.

I grew up on a farm, and still live in that same area, and spend time on the farm as well a friends farm. Many different races working on them, and some blacks, and yes they use the word often enough. They explained to me once it's because it's basically 'their' word now and having the freedom to do what they want with it makes them feel great and brings them together, much like how war brings nations together. This makes some sense, but my point was political correctness, which is pushed by many races, which doesn't allow for this type of thing to make any sense whatsoever, yet they allow it just because. It doesn't surprise me though since that's typically a Liberal trait, making rules for others to follow, and not following them yourself. I see it all the time, constantly, and grew up with it everyday too. Just because I don't get specific, like down to every black person who's ever used that word, doesn't mean I think they all use it, just like how I understand not all Liberals break their own rules, and that some Conservatives do as well.

BTW, thanks for not asking to have me punished/banned immediately. I appreciate the time taken to ask before labeling me and deciding if I'm a deplorable or not. That's the way it should be regardless of what 'should or shouldn't have happened'.

No, I'm not black or a minority, but I sure didn't grow up "privileged" in the way most would understand it. The farm alone should say enough in terms of wealth, but with a partial feminist Liberal mother, hard working generous Conservative father, and man child of a younger brother, our household was a nightmare. Being a poorer family in the general community was an embarrassment as far as she was concerned, and took that hate out on us. She treated my father and I like absolute crap, and did everything possible to run us into the ground, where as my brother could do no wrong, since he wasn't expected to help, and got away with everything. Due to this, by the time I was an adult, the only way you were going to break me, was with your fists, if you were lucky. When people throw negative words at me of any kind, I end up having to see the doctor to make sure my guts are ok because they hurt so bad from laughing so hard. Today, my Liberal brother, will basically cry if I simply look at him the wrong way, yet he still talks down to me often enough, knowing full well it's useless anyway.

So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't be hurt if someone called me everything under the sun known to man to be demeaning. Words only have detrimental outcomes if people themselves allow them to. Ever tell a woman she looks great in that dress, only to have her chew your head off because 'she knows she looks fat'? It's no wonder some people say horrible things sometimes. I mean, if your getting in trouble regardless, there's no point in holding back, so you might as well lay it on thick while your at it. Trump lives by this.

I do agree there was little reason for Roseanne to post that on Twitter. That's the kind of thing that if your going to say it, do it in a small group of people you know think the same, or just won't care. Not exactly the type of thing I would say is normal to talk about in general, but if she was drugged up or drunk, well, people do stupid stuff under the influence so you can't expect them to be as accountable under those circumstances. Drunk driving would have been less of a punishment than what happened to her and everyone else involved, right down to the fans. Nobody was killed or injured. If this was a rare occurrence, it would be somewhat less of an issue based on how ABC handled it, but since this is a regular thing for her, shooting her mouth off, then either ABC shouldn't have even bothered in the first place, or should have dealt with it taking everything into account, not just that one tweet and it's angry mob.

Thank goodness individual people or small groups can't legally have push button nukes.

The difference is that by not being part of the minority, you cannot fully understand what that minority goes through.  You are fine saying you would not care if someone called you a sub human species but you are thinking on a personal level.  You are not seeing it as people thinking of you as a sub human on a national level.  Where their decisions effect how you raise your family, take care of your livelihood, get a job, get credit for big purchases, treated when you shop or go to a restaurant.  Where your schools, housing and general fundings are effect by those thoughts.  When you are the minority you do not have the privilege to always easily change your status but must fight for every scrap you get.  You must be tens time better than the majority and willing to get paid ten times less. Word are very powerful communication tool we as humans use to convey our thoughts and ideals.  They can be used to subjugate, demean and dehumanize a group.  When you let someone or a group paint you in a negative light you give power to those words and make them legitimate to the majority.  

As a term I always go by is that when a person has an opportunity to show you who they are believe them.

As I stated before, people get fired for what Roseaan said on Twitter all the time.  Getting drunk or what ever has never been a good enough excuse.  As I also stated, people do not know the agreement or contract Roseanne was under.  If its like any other contract now a days, it has language that states you can be fired for making public racist comments on public social media.  Roseanne was giving a chance and she blew it, not only for herself but also the people who watched her show and the worked it.  It's sad it had to come to this but her own ex Husband even stated he tried to take her phone away and that ABC also tried to do so and she refused.  



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

I grew up on a farm, and still live in that same area, and spend time on the farm as well a friends farm. Many different races working on them, and some blacks, and yes they use the word often enough. They explained to me once it's because it's basically 'their' word now and having the freedom to do what they want with it makes them feel great and brings them together, much like how war brings nations together. This makes some sense, but my point was political correctness, which is pushed by many races, which doesn't allow for this type of thing to make any sense whatsoever, yet they allow it just because. It doesn't surprise me though since that's typically a Liberal trait, making rules for others to follow, and not following them yourself. I see it all the time, constantly, and grew up with it everyday too. Just because I don't get specific, like down to every black person who's ever used that word, doesn't mean I think they all use it, just like how I understand not all Liberals break their own rules, and that some Conservatives do as well.

BTW, thanks for not asking to have me punished/banned immediately. I appreciate the time taken to ask before labeling me and deciding if I'm a deplorable or not. That's the way it should be regardless of what 'should or shouldn't have happened'.

No, I'm not black or a minority, but I sure didn't grow up "privileged" in the way most would understand it. The farm alone should say enough in terms of wealth, but with a partial feminist Liberal mother, hard working generous Conservative father, and man child of a younger brother, our household was a nightmare. Being a poorer family in the general community was an embarrassment as far as she was concerned, and took that hate out on us. She treated my father and I like absolute crap, and did everything possible to run us into the ground, where as my brother could do no wrong, since he wasn't expected to help, and got away with everything. Due to this, by the time I was an adult, the only way you were going to break me, was with your fists, if you were lucky. When people throw negative words at me of any kind, I end up having to see the doctor to make sure my guts are ok because they hurt so bad from laughing so hard. Today, my Liberal brother, will basically cry if I simply look at him the wrong way, yet he still talks down to me often enough, knowing full well it's useless anyway.

So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't be hurt if someone called me everything under the sun known to man to be demeaning. Words only have detrimental outcomes if people themselves allow them to. Ever tell a woman she looks great in that dress, only to have her chew your head off because 'she knows she looks fat'? It's no wonder some people say horrible things sometimes. I mean, if your getting in trouble regardless, there's no point in holding back, so you might as well lay it on thick while your at it. Trump lives by this.

I do agree there was little reason for Roseanne to post that on Twitter. That's the kind of thing that if your going to say it, do it in a small group of people you know think the same, or just won't care. Not exactly the type of thing I would say is normal to talk about in general, but if she was drugged up or drunk, well, people do stupid stuff under the influence so you can't expect them to be as accountable under those circumstances. Drunk driving would have been less of a punishment than what happened to her and everyone else involved, right down to the fans. Nobody was killed or injured. If this was a rare occurrence, it would be somewhat less of an issue based on how ABC handled it, but since this is a regular thing for her, shooting her mouth off, then either ABC shouldn't have even bothered in the first place, or should have dealt with it taking everything into account, not just that one tweet and it's angry mob.

Thank goodness individual people or small groups can't legally have push button nukes.

The difference is that by not being part of the minority, you cannot fully understand what that minority goes through.  You are fine saying you would not care if someone called you a sub human species but you are thinking on a personal level.  You are not seeing it as people thinking of you as a sub human on a national level.  Where their decisions effect how you raise your family, take care of your livelihood, get a job, get credit for big purchases, treated when you shop or go to a restaurant.  Where your schools, housing and general fundings are effect by those thoughts.  When you are the minority you do not have the privilege to always easily change your status but must fight for every scrap you get.  You must be tens time better than the majority and willing to get paid ten times less. Word are very powerful communication tool we as humans use to convey our thoughts and ideals.  They can be used to subjugate, demean and dehumanize a group.  When you let someone or a group paint you in a negative light you give power to those words and make them legitimate to the majority.  

As a term I always go by is that when a person has an opportunity to show you who they are believe them.

As I stated before, people get fired for what Roseaan said on Twitter all the time.  Getting drunk or what ever has never been a good enough excuse.  As I also stated, people do not know the agreement or contract Roseanne was under.  If its like any other contract now a days, it has language that states you can be fired for making public racist comments on public social media.  Roseanne was giving a chance and she blew it, not only for herself but also the people who watched her show and the worked it.  It's sad it had to come to this but her own ex Husband even stated he tried to take her phone away and that ABC also tried to do so and she refused.  

The difference is assumptions. Like myself trying to assume how bad minorities have it, or like you assuming that because I'm not a minority that it must mean my life was better automatically no matter what. The truth is there is no way to exactly compare, and even if you could, it's all relative to each individual. Believe me or not, I can assure you, growing up the way I was treated by not just my family, but many others, was far far below what the majority would deem to be uncivilized. My best friend would refuse to come over when we were teenagers because he couldn't stand the way things were for me at home, even when he was around, and was the type of person who would speak his mind, which would have ended extremely badly and he knew it. As terrible as it was, I'm not complaining, because it forced me to focus on school, and use my farm work ethic to eventually put myself in a position where I would never have to worry about being treated like that again. It surely wasn't easy, and meant massive sacrifices, but was worth it. Another reason why I was able to accomplish this, is because I got it through my head early on, that words are only words, and that 'removing them from the equation' meant you automatically defeat the majority of people in a 'hate speech war'.

I spent two years out of college looking for work, and while it was mostly do to an economy that was doing too well, and marks that were good enough but not the best, nobody was willing to hire because it wasn't necessary at the time unless you were the very best. When I finally found a job, I worked on the road, for weeks at a time, with a weekend off in between, 12-14 hour physical days, plus emergency calls overnight sometimes, and got paid like crap for years until I finished my training and got my ticket. By this time I had put myself in a position where I was starting to be seen as indisposable and ended up promoted numerous times. I had become well respected in that company, and within my home community as well. Now I'm not saying absolutely everyone should be able to do what I did in my life, but what I do know, is that based on where I started and came from, that for the large majority, if you focus instead of sitting around and moping, you can make your life so much better it's unbelievable. You may not get exactly what you want, and you may not end up rich and famous, but who the heck cares about that anyway? At the very least, if you plan to have a family, your children will have a much easier and better shot and becoming even more successful. Mother nature doesn't give hand out's, rich people do. For those that still try to treat you like crap, again, who the heck cares? Let them flap their lips till they turn blue.

If Roseanne was warned behind the scenes, in full detail, then yes, she deserves what came to her. We don't know that though and I personally haven't seen anything saying she was, which would be the easiest way for ABC to 'prove their innocence'.  Based on what we do know, both her and ABC were mostly wrong in different ways. Lots of people use being under the influence of something to either get off a charge, or lessen the charge. I still have a problem with people saying she totally deserved it. All it will take is someone else with a clean slate to say a similar thing, and they will be expected to face a similarly harsh consequence. This would mean nobody is aloud to screw up ever, and must be perfect always. I do believe in people receiving harsher punishment if they do not learn their lesson, but it needs to be a step and not a cliff, and how many times has ABC punished her before about something she has said?



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

The difference is that by not being part of the minority, you cannot fully understand what that minority goes through.  You are fine saying you would not care if someone called you a sub human species but you are thinking on a personal level.  You are not seeing it as people thinking of you as a sub human on a national level.  Where their decisions effect how you raise your family, take care of your livelihood, get a job, get credit for big purchases, treated when you shop or go to a restaurant.  Where your schools, housing and general fundings are effect by those thoughts.  When you are the minority you do not have the privilege to always easily change your status but must fight for every scrap you get.  You must be tens time better than the majority and willing to get paid ten times less. Word are very powerful communication tool we as humans use to convey our thoughts and ideals.  They can be used to subjugate, demean and dehumanize a group.  When you let someone or a group paint you in a negative light you give power to those words and make them legitimate to the majority.  

As a term I always go by is that when a person has an opportunity to show you who they are believe them.

As I stated before, people get fired for what Roseaan said on Twitter all the time.  Getting drunk or what ever has never been a good enough excuse.  As I also stated, people do not know the agreement or contract Roseanne was under.  If its like any other contract now a days, it has language that states you can be fired for making public racist comments on public social media.  Roseanne was giving a chance and she blew it, not only for herself but also the people who watched her show and the worked it.  It's sad it had to come to this but her own ex Husband even stated he tried to take her phone away and that ABC also tried to do so and she refused.  

The difference is assumptions. Like myself trying to assume how bad minorities have it, or like you assuming that because I'm not a minority that it must mean my life was better automatically no matter what. The truth is there is no way to exactly compare, and even if you could, it's all relative to each individual. Believe me or not, I can assure you, growing up the way I was treated by not just my family, but many others, was far far below what the majority would deem to be uncivilized. My best friend would refuse to come over when we were teenagers because he couldn't stand the way things were for me at home, even when he was around, and was the type of person who would speak his mind, which would have ended extremely badly and he knew it. As terrible as it was, I'm not complaining, because it forced me to focus on school, and use my farm work ethic to eventually put myself in a position where I would never have to worry about being treated like that again. It surely wasn't easy, and meant massive sacrifices, but was worth it. Another reason why I was able to accomplish this, is because I got it through my head early on, that words are only words, and that 'removing them from the equation' meant you automatically defeat the majority of people in a 'hate speech war'.

I spent two years out of college looking for work, and while it was mostly do to an economy that was doing too well, and marks that were good enough but not the best, nobody was willing to hire because it wasn't necessary at the time unless you were the very best. When I finally found a job, I worked on the road, for weeks at a time, with a weekend off in between, 12-14 hour physical days, plus emergency calls overnight sometimes, and got paid like crap for years until I finished my training and got my ticket. By this time I had put myself in a position where I was starting to be seen as indisposable and ended up promoted numerous times. I had become well respected in that company, and within my home community as well. Now I'm not saying absolutely everyone should be able to do what I did in my life, but what I do know, is that based on where I started and came from, that for the large majority, if you focus instead of sitting around and moping, you can make your life so much better it's unbelievable. You may not get exactly what you want, and you may not end up rich and famous, but who the heck cares about that anyway? At the very least, if you plan to have a family, your children will have a much easier and better shot and becoming even more successful. Mother nature doesn't give hand out's, rich people do. For those that still try to treat you like crap, again, who the heck cares? Let them flap their lips till they turn blue.

If Roseanne was warned behind the scenes, in full detail, then yes, she deserves what came to her. We don't know that though and I personally haven't seen anything saying she was, which would be the easiest way for ABC to 'prove their innocence'.  Based on what we do know, both her and ABC were mostly wrong in different ways. Lots of people use being under the influence of something to either get off a charge, or lessen the charge. I still have a problem with people saying she totally deserved it. All it will take is someone else with a clean slate to say a similar thing, and they will be expected to face a similarly harsh consequence. This would mean nobody is aloud to screw up ever, and must be perfect always. I do believe in people receiving harsher punishment if they do not learn their lesson, but it needs to be a step and not a cliff, and how many times has ABC punished her before about something she has said?

I am not assuming anything.  I have no clue about your Personal life because that is just that your personal life.  I am talking about something bigger than one person life but a system that was in place to keep a group down.  A system that was used to make them appear sub human and thus make it easier to treat them as such.  You keep looking at the issue as a personal issue which limits the scope to your own personal experience.  I am talking about something that has happen over centuries to a whole race of people.  Your limited personal experience isn't enough to give you any real perspective of the bigger issue.  Instead your personal experience only defines how you view your current world YOU live in.  Also unless you are part of the minority and had to go through the things that group has to go through, NO you do not have a true perspective of what it means to be Black in America, just like no Black person can know what it means to be White in America.  

Even with the experience you present, you probably never had your resume thrown in the trash because a person realize you were black.  You probably never experience going to an interview where you are the only black person going for the job and you were already immediately dismissed before you even had a chance to interview.  You probably never went to get a loan for something and was immediately rejected because you were black not because of your credit score.  You never probably want rent an apartment or house and immediately rejected because you were black. Saying that you had a hard childhood is just a perspective on what you experience but its not the same as immediately being rejected because of the color of your skin.  The two does not compare.

As for Roseanne, what company reveal to the public the contract between actor and client.  You will never know what was in that contract but one thing you do know, if Roseanne herself isn't suing for breach of contract then ABC had every right to fire her for what she did so there was something there.  People get fired all the time because they never read the employee handbook from their company.  Just because you did not know something was there isn't the job of the employer, it was the employee to know what was acceptable.  I do not know any employer that do not make you sign that you read the handbook or any changes that are made to that book.  That also include harassment videos, bribery and a whole bunch of other fireable offenses.  Roseanne is not some innocent naive person here.  Not all incidents you do are slaps on the wrist.  In ABC eyes, she just did not name call someone she used terms that were considered hateful and racist.  As a business those type of things usually get you fired right away.  She is no more exempt from this than any other employee.  The lesson she will learn if she gets another shot is next time keep your mouth shut when you feel the need to be an ass.



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

The difference is assumptions. Like myself trying to assume how bad minorities have it, or like you assuming that because I'm not a minority that it must mean my life was better automatically no matter what. The truth is there is no way to exactly compare, and even if you could, it's all relative to each individual. Believe me or not, I can assure you, growing up the way I was treated by not just my family, but many others, was far far below what the majority would deem to be uncivilized. My best friend would refuse to come over when we were teenagers because he couldn't stand the way things were for me at home, even when he was around, and was the type of person who would speak his mind, which would have ended extremely badly and he knew it. As terrible as it was, I'm not complaining, because it forced me to focus on school, and use my farm work ethic to eventually put myself in a position where I would never have to worry about being treated like that again. It surely wasn't easy, and meant massive sacrifices, but was worth it. Another reason why I was able to accomplish this, is because I got it through my head early on, that words are only words, and that 'removing them from the equation' meant you automatically defeat the majority of people in a 'hate speech war'.

I spent two years out of college looking for work, and while it was mostly do to an economy that was doing too well, and marks that were good enough but not the best, nobody was willing to hire because it wasn't necessary at the time unless you were the very best. When I finally found a job, I worked on the road, for weeks at a time, with a weekend off in between, 12-14 hour physical days, plus emergency calls overnight sometimes, and got paid like crap for years until I finished my training and got my ticket. By this time I had put myself in a position where I was starting to be seen as indisposable and ended up promoted numerous times. I had become well respected in that company, and within my home community as well. Now I'm not saying absolutely everyone should be able to do what I did in my life, but what I do know, is that based on where I started and came from, that for the large majority, if you focus instead of sitting around and moping, you can make your life so much better it's unbelievable. You may not get exactly what you want, and you may not end up rich and famous, but who the heck cares about that anyway? At the very least, if you plan to have a family, your children will have a much easier and better shot and becoming even more successful. Mother nature doesn't give hand out's, rich people do. For those that still try to treat you like crap, again, who the heck cares? Let them flap their lips till they turn blue.

If Roseanne was warned behind the scenes, in full detail, then yes, she deserves what came to her. We don't know that though and I personally haven't seen anything saying she was, which would be the easiest way for ABC to 'prove their innocence'.  Based on what we do know, both her and ABC were mostly wrong in different ways. Lots of people use being under the influence of something to either get off a charge, or lessen the charge. I still have a problem with people saying she totally deserved it. All it will take is someone else with a clean slate to say a similar thing, and they will be expected to face a similarly harsh consequence. This would mean nobody is aloud to screw up ever, and must be perfect always. I do believe in people receiving harsher punishment if they do not learn their lesson, but it needs to be a step and not a cliff, and how many times has ABC punished her before about something she has said?

I am not assuming anything.  I have no clue about your Personal life because that is just that your personal life.  I am talking about something bigger than one person life but a system that was in place to keep a group down.  A system that was used to make them appear sub human and thus make it easier to treat them as such.  You keep looking at the issue as a personal issue which limits the scope to your own personal experience.  I am talking about something that has happen over centuries to a whole race of people.  Your limited personal experience isn't enough to give you any real perspective of the bigger issue.  Instead your personal experience only defines how you view your current world YOU live in.  Also unless you are part of the minority and had to go through the things that group has to go through, NO you do not have a true perspective of what it means to be Black in America, just like no Black person can know what it means to be White in America.  

Even with the experience you present, you probably never had your resume thrown in the trash because a person realize you were black.  You probably never experience going to an interview where you are the only black person going for the job and you were already immediately dismissed before you even had a chance to interview.  You probably never went to get a loan for something and was immediately rejected because you were black not because of your credit score.  You never probably want rent an apartment or house and immediately rejected because you were black. Saying that you had a hard childhood is just a perspective on what you experience but its not the same as immediately being rejected because of the color of your skin.  The two does not compare.

As for Roseanne, what company reveal to the public the contract between actor and client.  You will never know what was in that contract but one thing you do know, if Roseanne herself isn't suing for breach of contract then ABC had every right to fire her for what she did so there was something there.  People get fired all the time because they never read the employee handbook from their company.  Just because you did not know something was there isn't the job of the employer, it was the employee to know what was acceptable.  I do not know any employer that do not make you sign that you read the handbook or any changes that are made to that book.  That also include harassment videos, bribery and a whole bunch of other fireable offenses.  Roseanne is not some innocent naive person here.  Not all incidents you do are slaps on the wrist.  In ABC eyes, she just did not name call someone she used terms that were considered hateful and racist.  As a business those type of things usually get you fired right away.  She is no more exempt from this than any other employee.  The lesson she will learn if she gets another shot is next time keep your mouth shut when you feel the need to be an ass.

Well if we're going to talk about used to's, I can point out how much worse it was for my great ancestors going back as far as necessary to prove it was worse than how some minorities have had in the more recent past. So where is the line exactly and why does the line start at that specific point in time? Those groups you speak of are all made up of individual people though, who all have different experiences. They are not all exactly the same and do not go through life exactly the same. Some are weak and get walked all over, some are strong or intelligent and end up raising themselves to a level where they either are able to make a new life in a new place, with a new group, or they simply no longer care because they have decided not to, usually because they have succeeded enough to know they are not lesser individuals.

Being left out of groups because your the poor kid isn't much different than because of your skin color. As a kid how are your supposed to get wealthy? What if you were born with a super low IQ and are just plain stupid and that inhibits you from making as much money as you would like as an adult? They are all setbacks that you cannot do anything about physically, short of having plastic surgery on your skin, and why would you want to do that to yourself? What about not getting a loan because of your credit score and not because of your skin color? Isn't that a form of racism against someone's wealth? I went to a few interviews over the years that I was looking for work, where there were only a few of us being interviewed, and we were told that one of us would be chosen on the spot. Numerous times a minority was chosen over me, and one time the interviewers were all black, so should I have assumed they were being racist? I didn't but if they were, I don't care, because I wouldn't want to work for them anyway in that case.

Roseanne may not have sued because if she could have gotten away with it, she would in a way be saying she definitely is a racist and thinks she and anyone else should be able to get away with it. This could look very bad on her which may very well lead to any company hearing about this, writing her off completely in the future. As for exemptions, there was the Samantha Bee thing she completely got away with, and a few others that have flown under the radar because the media just conveniently decided not the cover them since they were lefties. Much like Trump said, where is his personal phone call and apology? Much like I said, lefties making rules and decisions, and only enforcing them when it suits them.