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CGI-Quality said:
kirby007 said:

So why did Talon get shafted then? He was/is an admin eh?

One of Talon's reasons for leaving was the feeling of harassment from users. I'd point out the irony for you, but that's too easy.

Im pointing out that you dont draw the same line....

 

Hell keep rol banned for all i care but get the other perpetrators aswell.

 

I frankly offended that you think this is just because of rol and not the bigger picture behind it.



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

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I really hope that Talon does decide to come back eventually, but if he does not I think that instead of focusing on where we went wrong as a way to get at each other, we should use the past in order to ensure that we can learn from the mistakes of the past and build a better future. Unfortunately we're all a very stubborn bunch, and we have our own views of how we want things to be, so that generally makes compromise/resolution a difficult matter, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.



What happened to this forum? Why the redesign? :(



TalonMan said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  I disagree that the two paragraphs I was referring to are "unnecessary and combative".  You didn't explain why you think they are, which was the question that was the entire point of my previous post.  Even granting your claim that the "beta testing" comment exposed gratuitous ignorance of preexisting beta testing wouldn't support ioi's objection IMO. 

2.  I'm not Ganoncrotch.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that after the very pointed "you" comments.  (Didn't seem like a "general you" type of thing, though maybe it was meant that way.) 

3.  Good luck on fixing the site.  I hope that people will remember that you are not the architect of their woes accessing the site, just as I hope you will remember that significant problems understandably result in upset users who may then be less than diplomatic in articulating those problems.

1. They were absolutely unnecessary and combative - take those entire two paragraphs apart, and what are you really left with?

honestly right now not only is this not a site that I could ever recommend people come to join for the functions it offers, but it's one that I feel I'm going to go back into lurk mode rather than attempt to use anything other than the front page here because everything beyond that is just cross fingers mode that some page won't load and typing is wasted as it will never reach the site as intended.

I've reworded this post a few times to remove profanity from it (hopefully most of it) but yeah, I write it shaking my head, because I really enjoyed VGchartz and it genuinely upsets me to see it in the current condition. Could I at least suggest a few posts about the place or popups on area's which are being worked on? "beta testing function" on certain parts with the ability to revert to the old versions for those who do not want to be beta testing the site?

Out of that entire rant, there was ONE actual valid point (regarding beta testing) - but as I said, since the general context of the entire post was combative and antagonistic in nature (and as I said just before), the point was completely lost in all of this because of his attitude. I didn't even see this comment, until my last post when I dissected the entire thing. Tell me, beyond the one sentence "Could I at least suggest a few posts..." - was anything else in those two paragraphs actually constructive or helpful?

2. I know you're not Ganoncrotch - I quoted you solely because you were the latest person to rehash this. While quoting you though, my response was directed more towards Ganoncrotch, than you which is why I said "but I think it's only fair that I tear this thing right down and give @Ganoncrotch the full answer he wants:"

3. I completely disagree that people have a right to be "less than diplomatic" when reporting issues, no matter how frustrated they are. This is volunteer work for the most part, right? If I were the site owner, sure you'd have every right to blast my email or whatever else with whatever problems you are having - but since that's not the case here, there's absolutely no need to treat any of the volunteers that way (this includes moderators, other site admin, etc.). If you're unable to communicate an issue in a reasonable and civil manner, then don't bother.

Yes - people have a right to be angry, sure. But there is a way to express than anger without insulting people, though. And if your incapable of doing that, then I'm sorry but you'll receive no help from me in anyway...

1.  "one actual valid point" I don't know what you personally consider "actual" or "valid", but I see more than one point: 
a.  There are issues with the site loading for a long time and not letting me, Ganoncrotch, access the site in a reasonable timeframe or in some cases at all. 
b.  When this issue happens when I am trying to post in the forums or send a PM, the content is lost. 
b-2.  Other sites have a function where when this sort of thing happens the content is recovered when I get back into the site.  I, Ganoncrotch, think that this is an extremely useful thing that you should implement. 
c.  The problem is bad enough that I, Ganoncrotch, formerly an enthusiastic forumgoer who may have recommended the site to people I know, can no longer do so in good conscience.  If my experience is at all representative then this is impacting the growth potential of the site. 
(This was all in Paragraph One.  I don't see the way he wrote is as particularly "combative" but given the context of being part of a longer much harsher post I can see how you with your blood up, so to speak, saw it that way.) 

Paragraph Two, in addition to the beta thing, had extra content that attempted to emphasize that he was not writing this post out of hate but concern for the site that he has enjoyed using for some time—the site which he is sad that he can no longer enjoyably use.  This may not be an "actual valid point" in terms of actionable complaints or suggestions, but it's certainly not combative either. 

2.  Fair enough. 

3.  You completely misread my post.  Sometimes I consider this my fault for being insufficiently clear but to be honest this time I think it's all on you.  I didn't say people have a RIGHT to shit on you.  I said that it is a fact that people who are really upset are sometimes going to yell at people even when it's counterproductive, even when the people in question are not normally complete monsters.  This is what I meant by "understandably".  You don't have to like it, and you don't have to take it lying down (contrary to what you apparently thought I was saying), but IMO you really ought to accept that it is a fact.  If you park your car under a tree then birds might poop on it.  (See how we came full circle there? )



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

TalonMan said:
Final-Fan said:

1.  "one actual valid point" I don't know what you personally consider "actual" or "valid", but I see more than one point: 
a.  There are issues with the site loading for a long time and not letting me, Ganoncrotch, access the site in a reasonable timeframe or in some cases at all. 
b.  When this issue happens when I am trying to post in the forums or send a PM, the content is lost. 
b-2.  Other sites have a function where when this sort of thing happens the content is recovered when I get back into the site.  I, Ganoncrotch, think that this is an extremely useful thing that you should implement. 
c.  The problem is bad enough that I, Ganoncrotch, formerly an enthusiastic forumgoer who may have recommended the site to people I know, can no longer do so in good conscience.  If my experience is at all representative then this is impacting the growth potential of the site. 
(This was all in Paragraph One.  I don't see the way he wrote is as particularly "combative" but given the context of being part of a longer much harsher post I can see how you with your blood up, so to speak, saw it that way.) 

Paragraph Two, in addition to the beta thing, had extra content that attempted to emphasize that he was not writing this post out of hate but concern for the site that he has enjoyed using for some time—the site which he is sad that he can no longer enjoyably use.  This may not be an "actual valid point" in terms of actionable complaints or suggestions, but it's certainly not combative either. 

2.  Fair enough. 

3.  You completely misread my post.  Sometimes I consider this my fault for being insufficiently clear but to be honest this time I think it's all on you.  I didn't say people have a RIGHT to shit on you.  I said that it is a fact that people who are really upset are sometimes going to yell at people even when it's counterproductive, even when the people in question are not normally complete monsters.  This is what I meant by "understandably".  You don't have to like it, and you don't have to take it lying down (contrary to what you apparently thought I was saying), but IMO you really ought to accept that it is a fact.  If you park your car under a tree then birds might poop on it.  (See how we came full circle there? )

I didn't misread your post, at all - in a very clear way, you're condoning people venting their frustrations on the very people who have the least vested interest in this website's success. "You parked your car under a tree and you're surprised a bird shit on it???". Your analogy is, "You opted to do volunteer work on this website, and you're surprised people are going to dump on you?"

If your only means of communicating a problem is to "shit on people", then you are destined for failure - that is also a fact, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that part of the equation...

Please read very carefully:  there is a difference between a thing being right and good, and a thing being true.  Do you understand the difference between these two states of being? 

Please look up the word "condone" in the dictionary.  There is no sense of the word as described in Webster's Third New International Dictionary that applies to how I felt about birds pooping on my car last week when I parked it under a tree. 

I am not saying you should accept it as in "it's okay that this is happening and nothing should be done about it and the people doing it are doing nothing wrong".  I'm saying you should accept it as in "this is happening, and it's predictable that this would happen, and it's extremely likely to happen in the future." 

P.S.  Do you cede that I was right about "more than one thing"? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!