By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Movies & TV - Solo Headed To Become A Flop? Yep, It Flopped.

 

How Much Will Solo Make WW?

Under $700M 56 60.87%
 
$700M-$800M 18 19.57%
 
$801M-$900M 12 13.04%
 
$901M-$1B 3 3.26%
 
Over $1B 3 3.26%
 
Total:92
Azuren on 27 May 2018
Soundwave said:
Azuren said:

Oh cool, so you're telling me Lucas had even less to do with it?

Most likely would have been bad, on that we agree. But at least it would have been Prequel bad and not worse.

There are literal books on this, so you can just be wrong about this one. Han Solo is up there as one of the most pivotal characters in Star Wars lore, so the idea that no one is interested in his story is patently wrong.

No, they don't need my advice. They're smart enough to see a trend by themselves, and when she continues to berate her fanbase, she'll get the boot. This isn't me saying "they should", this is a fundamental understanding as someone who has people working under them: when someone consistently performs below expectations, replace them with someone who can meet those expectations.

Han Solo is a cool character ... but that doesn't fucking mean his childhood/teenage years is 

1.) Compelling

2.) Watching the character played by someone else other than Harrison Ford is compelling. 

It was a bad idea from the get go and it is Lucas' idea, just like Young Indiana Jones was, and that also was not a big crowd pleaser. I don't care how Han Solo meets Chewbacca, or how cute Anakin was as a kid, or that Obi-Wan had a pony tail when he was young ... all this shit is stuff Lucas thinks we're going to find wildly interesting, when in actuality it isn't. 

I don't doubt the film is decent, it's probably about Ant-Man quality, but it's also like "what's the point of this?".

Kathleen Kennedy is going to be producing Star Wars films for years to come, you're just going to have to accept that. You can bold that all you want too. 

The main thing that will likely happen now is the Obi-Wan movie and Boba Fett movie likely are going to be put on ice IMO. SW is not Marvel, we don't need a movie for every second character, they will likely have to re-evaluate these "one-off" movies much more carefully. 

That also doesn't mean it isn't either of those things. Jeez, can you stop for half a second and ask yourself if your own argument can't rebound back to you? 

It could have been a great idea. It's a shame it wasn't handled very well, or by people who don't fucking belittle their fanbase.

You simultaneously doubt it is decent and compare it to Ant-man in the same sentence? Well, I mean if you're going for the "I have an outlier opinion" approach, it's working.

What part of workplace competence do you not understand? Do I have to spell it out? When someone proves they can't do their job, as Solo has shown and as IX will inevitably show, you get fired. Period. Holy shit, man, I don't know how many more times I can deal with your groundless argument that you don't have to excel at your job to keep it.

Or IX is going to bomb with no assistance from Obi or Boba, Kathleen gets the axe, and the franchise gets a chance at redeeming itself with X, XI, and XII.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Around the Network
Azuren on 27 May 2018
shikamaru317 said:
Azuren said:

I'm honestly curious in what that ideology that Lucas pushed in the OG Trilogy was.

 

In that interview George basically says that the original trilogy was designed to be anti-authoritarian and was influenced by the Vietnam War, specifically how America was the authoritarian state attacking the little guy, Vietnam, that the Vietnamese managed to repel using guerrilla warfare, much like how the Rebels used guerrilla warfare to defeat the Authoritarian Empire. So yeah, there was some political agenda there, but I personally don't think it was anywhere near as overt as the political agenda in TLJ.

Cool beans, yeah I noted earlier how Lucas managed to do it with quite a bit of subtlety as opposed to the "LOOK AT OUR STRONG FEMALE LEAD; WE HAVE A BLACK STORMTROOPER; *Poe is gay?* UH, I MEAN YEAH, HE IS; LANDO IS ALSO PANSEXUAL BECAUSE WHY NOT; HOW FUCKING DARE YOU QUESTION REY, YOU MISOGYNISTIC , NECK-BEARED BASEMENT DWELLER!"



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Soundwave on 27 May 2018
Faelco said:
Soundwave said:

Han Solo is a cool character ... but that doesn't fucking mean his childhood/teenage years is 

1.) Compelling

2.) Watching the character played by someone else other than Harrison Ford is compelling. 

It was a bad idea from the get go and it is Lucas' idea, just like Young Indiana Jones was, and that also was not a big crowd pleaser. I don't care how Han Solo meets Chewbacca, or how cute Anakin was as a kid, or that Obi-Wan had a pony tail when he was young ... all this shit is stuff Lucas thinks we're going to find wildly interesting, when in actuality it isn't. 

I don't doubt the film is decent, it's probably about Ant-Man quality, but it's also like "what's the point of this?".

Kathleen Kennedy is going to be producing Star Wars films for years to come, you're just going to have to accept that. You can bold that all you want too. 

The main thing that will likely happen now is the Obi-Wan movie and Boba Fett movie likely are going to be put on ice IMO. SW is not Marvel, we don't need a movie for every second character, they will likely have to re-evaluate these "one-off" movies much more carefully. 

You forget Disney's expectations. They paid a LOT of money to get Star Wars. They didn't do it to cancel movies because the audience doesn't seem to like it. They will make as much movies as they can and as much money as they can. 

 

And I agree that if at one point, they think they'll get more money with another producer, they will change. It's not about liking the current producer or not. If she doesn't meet expectations and if the BO trend is down with every new movie, they will do something to get it up again. They won't let their multi-billions investment get smaller every year to please a producer, whoever she is. Even less when Marvel shows how many billions a well-managed franchise can bring.

 

She needs to get those numbers up or she'll get fired, ideology or not. 

She's made three $1 billion+ Star Wars films, that buys her a decade at least in Hollywood, that's how things work, ok.

Disney got Star Wars for a laugh by the way, $4 billion ... Lucas could have easily gotten $10 billion for this, that was a huge bargain for Disney, The Force Awakens alone likely made Disney somewhere in the range of $2+ billion in profit alone from all movie sales + merchandise + commercial tie-ins.  

A lot of people are better off sticking to video games on the business side because like I said the analogy here is like saying "the Nintendo president better be worried about his 1st half Switch performance and Labo underperforming, because he could get fired!". 

We all know that's a pretty stupid statement and is unlikely to happen. Kathleen Kennedy was producing blockbuster movies when half this board was in diapers. 



Maxosaurus-rex on 27 May 2018
Soundwave said:
Azuren said:

Lucas had the idea originally in 2012, told Kasdan about it, and then fucked off with only bits of advice later on.

Lawrence and Jonathan Kasdan wrote the script that's in the movie. Whatever Lucas worked on previously was either heavily reworked or scrapped.

If DIsney didn't want it, they wouldn't have done it. Quit acting like Kasdan bullied a company that made over $55 billion last year.

I like how you know who actually wrote the movie, but keep bringing up Lucas. Can you be consistent? Just for once?

Lucas was never writing it, he hired Kasdan to start writing a first draft circa 2012. And that's for the best, because Kasdan is a far better writer than Lucas.

If Lucas had wrote this it would be far worse, the movie is apparently half decent, but apparnently that's not good enough for the anal retentive portion of Star Wars fans. 

It's just not an appealling concept ... and the concept is Lucas'. Not enough people want to see young Han Solo. He did Young Indiana Jones in the 80s too and that didn't work well either. The prequels already showed "seeing characters you loved when they're young!" doesn't create a dramatic story on its own. 

Disney doesn't need your advice on how to run their business, they're doing just fine. 

Are you going to blame Lucas that Disney is doing multiple spin offs? 



Azuren on 27 May 2018
Soundwave said:
Faelco said:

You forget Disney's expectations. They paid a LOT of money to get Star Wars. They didn't do it to cancel movies because the audience doesn't seem to like it. They will make as much movies as they can and as much money as they can. 

 

And I agree that if at one point, they think they'll get more money with another producer, they will change. It's not about liking the current producer or not. If she doesn't meet expectations and if the BO trend is down with every new movie, they will do something to get it up again. They won't let their multi-billions investment get smaller every year to please a producer, whoever she is. Even less when Marvel shows how many billions a well-managed franchise can bring.

 

She needs to get those numbers up or she'll get fired, ideology or not. 

She's made three $1 billion+ Star Wars films, that buys her a decade at least in Hollywood, that's how things work, ok.

Disney got Star Wars for a laugh by the way, $4 billion ... Lucas could have easily gotten $10 billion for this, that was a huge bargain for Disney, The Force Awakens alone likely made Disney somewhere in the range of $2+ billion in profit alone from all movie sales + merchandise + commercial tie-ins.  

A lot of people are better off sticking to video games on the business side because like I said the analogy here is like saying "the Nintendo president better be worried about his 1st half Switch performance and Labo underperforming, because he could get fired!". 

We all know that's a pretty stupid statement and is unlikely to happen. Kathleen Kennedy was producing blockbuster movies when half this board was in diapers. 

And the last one was super divisive, with this current one outright bombing. Can you please stop with the same debunked argument over and over?

And yeah, if the Switch were to start drastically underperform and labo was a bomb he could have very well faced replacement.

Do you just no understand how business works?



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Around the Network
Angelus on 27 May 2018
Azuren said:
shikamaru317 said:

 

In that interview George basically says that the original trilogy was designed to be anti-authoritarian and was influenced by the Vietnam War, specifically how America was the authoritarian state attacking the little guy, Vietnam, that the Vietnamese managed to repel using guerrilla warfare, much like how the Rebels used guerrilla warfare to defeat the Authoritarian Empire. So yeah, there was some political agenda there, but I personally don't think it was anywhere near as overt as the political agenda in TLJ.

Cool beans, yeah I noted earlier how Lucas managed to do it with quite a bit of subtlety as opposed to the "LOOK AT OUR STRONG FEMALE LEAD; WE HAVE A BLACK STORMTROOPER; *Poe is gay?* UH, I MEAN YEAH, HE IS; LANDO IS ALSO PANSEXUAL BECAUSE WHY NOT; HOW FUCKING DARE YOU QUESTION REY, YOU MISOGYNISTIC , NECK-BEARED BASEMENT DWELLER!"

Funny how you are quite willing to use examples of things that have never actually materialized in any sort recognizable way on screen, and only actually been said by people away from the context of the movies, yet you're willing to write off George Lucas' statements away from the context of the movie. Listen man, there's plenty to not like about these new Star Wars movies, but the truth is you're going out of your way to find more things to hate. 



Soundwave on 27 May 2018
Azuren said:
Soundwave said:

She's made three $1 billion+ Star Wars films, that buys her a decade at least in Hollywood, that's how things work, ok.

Disney got Star Wars for a laugh by the way, $4 billion ... Lucas could have easily gotten $10 billion for this, that was a huge bargain for Disney, The Force Awakens alone likely made Disney somewhere in the range of $2+ billion in profit alone from all movie sales + merchandise + commercial tie-ins.  

A lot of people are better off sticking to video games on the business side because like I said the analogy here is like saying "the Nintendo president better be worried about his 1st half Switch performance and Labo underperforming, because he could get fired!". 

We all know that's a pretty stupid statement and is unlikely to happen. Kathleen Kennedy was producing blockbuster movies when half this board was in diapers. 

And the last one was super divisive, with this current one outright bombing. Can you please stop with the same debunked argument over and over?

And yeah, if the Switch were to start drastically underperform and labo was a bomb he could have very well faced replacement.

Do you just no understand how business works?

I've worked in the film business, it doesn't work how you think it does. If it did, James Cameron would never work again after The Abyss, Steven Spielberg wouldn't have worked again after Always, M.Night Shyamalan wouldn't have worked after like 5 bombs in a row. 

One hit movie in Hollywood alone buys you a lot of leeway, two hits and you will working for a long ass time, a track record of multiple billion+ pictures means you get to do what you want, it doesn't matter what some kid on the internet thinks. 

I don't like Michael Bay, the last Transformers movie underperformed, but Michael Bay is going to be able to make whatever he wants for the next 20 years. And if you think you're better/smarter, then great go write your own movie and get it made, otherwise lets pipe down on pretending to be experts when I doubt most of the people complaining have even ever worked 1 day on a movie set. 



HomokHarcos on 27 May 2018
Azuren said:
Angelus said:
It's really interesting to me how aggressively a lot of people are pushing the narrative that the Star Wars fanbase is rebelling against Kennedy's direction of the franchise because she's pushing an ideology. First off, Star Wars has always pushed an ideology. Maybe you didn't notice, but George Lucas had a lot to say, and he wasn't subtle either. That aside though, to me this is really a lot simpler than that. These movies are leaving a bad taste, because;

1. They are very, very poorly written. Both in the overarching plot, and the moment to moment action.
2. They are unwilling to be creative, and chart new territory, yet simultaneously disrespect key lore elements and characters.
3. Kennedy has shown extreme disregard towards anything critical the fans have to say.

The first point on its own, fans would likely be willing to forgive. After all, they did so for the prequels to various degrees. Combined with 2, and 3 though….you're asking for trouble. Chances are, Kennedy never really liked Star Wars. She doesn't get what people gravitate to about it, so all she seems to distill it down to is the visual elements. Once you get past that surface level stuff, she doesn't have a clue, and if you sat down with her and talked to her off the record with some truth serum, I bet she'd admit it too.

I'm honestly curious in what that ideology that Lucas pushed in the OG Trilogy was.

Really? The original trilogy was very anti-imperialistic.



Faelco on 27 May 2018
Soundwave said:
Faelco said:

You forget Disney's expectations. They paid a LOT of money to get Star Wars. They didn't do it to cancel movies because the audience doesn't seem to like it. They will make as much movies as they can and as much money as they can. 

 

And I agree that if at one point, they think they'll get more money with another producer, they will change. It's not about liking the current producer or not. If she doesn't meet expectations and if the BO trend is down with every new movie, they will do something to get it up again. They won't let their multi-billions investment get smaller every year to please a producer, whoever she is. Even less when Marvel shows how many billions a well-managed franchise can bring.

 

She needs to get those numbers up or she'll get fired, ideology or not. 

She's made three $1 billion+ Star Wars films, that buys her a decade at least in Hollywood, that's how things work, ok.

Disney got Star Wars for a laugh by the way, $4 billion ... Lucas could have easily gotten $10 billion for this, that was a huge bargain for Disney, The Force Awakens alone likely made Disney somewhere in the range of $2+ billion in profit alone from all movie sales + merchandise + commercial tie-ins.  

A lot of people are better off sticking to video games on the business side because like I said the analogy here is like saying "the Nintendo president better be worried about his 1st half Switch performance and Labo underperforming, because he could get fired!". 

We all know that's a pretty stupid statement and is unlikely to happen. Kathleen Kennedy was producing blockbuster movies when half this board was in diapers. 

Oh, sorry, they "only" spent 4 billions and already got 10 billions back so they can stop making movies now, the ROI is good, let's stop all this Star Wars stuff, right?

 

No. If they think they can get more money, they will do what they can to get it. And I'm not saying that she should be fired right now. I'm saying it's a possibility, unlike you who are saying "No, people can't get fired in industry as long as they make a bit of money and have relations". Who doesn't understand how things work? 

 

If her numbers keep getting smaller (possible, and ongoing), if Disney wants more money (obvious), and if they think someone else can bring them more money (not the case so far), they will fire her. Or put her in charge of something else. She will still have work, nobody is saying she will end up in the streets because nobody will want her anymore. But not on SW in that case. 

 

You're acting like "No guys, Don Mattrick can't get fired, he was having a huge success with the Xbox 360 when you were still in high school" at XOne launch. And what happened? Oh, yeah... 



Soundwave on 27 May 2018
Faelco said:
Soundwave said:

She's made three $1 billion+ Star Wars films, that buys her a decade at least in Hollywood, that's how things work, ok.

Disney got Star Wars for a laugh by the way, $4 billion ... Lucas could have easily gotten $10 billion for this, that was a huge bargain for Disney, The Force Awakens alone likely made Disney somewhere in the range of $2+ billion in profit alone from all movie sales + merchandise + commercial tie-ins.  

A lot of people are better off sticking to video games on the business side because like I said the analogy here is like saying "the Nintendo president better be worried about his 1st half Switch performance and Labo underperforming, because he could get fired!". 

We all know that's a pretty stupid statement and is unlikely to happen. Kathleen Kennedy was producing blockbuster movies when half this board was in diapers. 

Oh, sorry, they "only" spent 4 billions and already got 10 billions back so they can stop making movies now, the ROI is good, let's stop all this Star Wars stuff, right?

 

No. If they think they can get more money, they will do what they can to get it. And I'm not saying that she should be fired right now. I'm saying it's a possibility, unlike you who are saying "No, people can't get fired in industry as long as they make a bit of money and have relations". Who doesn't understand how things work? 

 

If her numbers keep getting smaller (possible, and ongoing), if Disney wants more money (obvious), and if they think someone else can bring them more money (not the case so far), they will fire her.

 

You're acting like "No guys, Don Mattrick can't get fired, he was having a huge success with the Xbox 360 when you were still in high school" at XOne launch. And what happened? Oh, yeah... 

Do you really know that much about the film industry? Do you trade papers on a regular basis? Do you know the heads of the studios? Do you even know any other producers?

Hollywood studios always will lean towards people who have a proven track record, ESPECIALLY on the producing side. 

The other reality here is Kennedy has delivered 3/4 highest grossing Star Wars movies of the modern era, 3 of which are over a billion dollars. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's a pretty good track record that any producer in Hollywood would like to have. 

Marvel only has 5 billion+ grossing films in 19 tries. 

Kennedy will likely have 4/5 once Episode IX is out.

The main casualty here is likely to be the Obi-Wan or Boba Fett movies, I think for now Disney will opt to put those on ice, if a Star Wars "one-off" movie gets produced from now on, the script/concept is likely going to have to be a slam dunk, not just "well this is pretty good and there's some fun here". So for people who wanted to see Ewan McGregor back as Obi-Wan ... this might be tough shit for you guys.