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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (NS) is the most successful stand alone Zelda title (not counting remasters/other versions)

 

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild will be the most successful Zelda title combined across all versions.

Yes. 55 88.71%
 
No. 3 4.84%
 
Maybe so. 4 6.45%
 
Total:62
Jumpin said:

I agree 100%. The Shrines made the “dungeon” aspect of the game feel fresh for what felt like the first time since the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time. Rather than stringing up an insanely long portion of the game that might take you hours, it broke it up into smaller locations with 1-4 puzzles; I never finished TP or Wind Waker because in each game my whole progress got blocked in some kind of a hide n seek game that was on the critical path. I had to find some small item in a very large 3D area in order to progress. I could have gone to gamefaqs to look it up, I likely had done that a bunch of times already in each game for similar things - but you hit a point where it’s just like “I can’t be bothered with this crap!” And I turned it off... I probably had similar issues in OOT and MM, but I probably wasn’t sick of the formula yet.

With Breath of the Wild, if I couldn’t get past something, I’d leave and come back later (you can warp to any Shrine you’ve visited). Breath of the Wild lives and Breaths in its overworld, and that fresh air focus is quite a breath of fresh air. Forcing in a bunch of long-slog dungeons is not only regressive in the series, but it’s adding back in the elements that caused the franchise to stagnate in the first place. Putting in something that takes 2-4 hours of stuff you HAVE to complete to finish it is not better than several 15-30 minute things.

Number 1: the smaller ones means you spend a lot more time doing stuff outside.

Number 2: way less chance on getting stuck after an hour because you can’t find some little switch somewhere in one of twelve giant rooms, and you need to in order to complete this dungeon; and then there’s like ten other things like that.

 

If we’re talking about themes, then yeah, I have no problem with - for example - theming Mt. Doom Shrines with lava and such; Forest Shrines like the forest temple; etc... But doubtlessly, Breath of the Wild’s Shrines fixed the problem with the sloggy dungeons that caused the franchise to become stale and fall from the position of grace it held from NES to N64. Breath of the Wild is the Zelda game that put it back up there.

Yeah sadly TP was the worse offender in that aspect it's one of the longer game but as a result makes the player spend a lot of time in the dungeons as Acevil mentioned as you get toward the latter half of the game it becomes discouraging which was bad as the formula hinged on dungeons back then. You're right in that OOT and such had the same problem but were still new to us and the industry as whole, the water temple in OOT became notorious for what you mentioned because it had two particular keys so well hidden people were stuck on it for months.



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contestgamer said:
curl-6 said:

I never found climbing "broken" in the slightest; you can bypass some of Hyrule Castle by climbing, great; you'll miss a bunch of secrets and stuff if you do, but if you're impatient to just get to Ganon, the game lets you. 

And I'd actually say some of the shrine challenges in BOTW are among the coolest puzzles in the entire series, such as the one where you guide a rolling ball through a Rude Golberg esque course of mechanisms, or another where you have to get a cube of ice through a gauntlet of fire-based obstacle while it slowly melts. I quite liked that it broke the dungeons down into digestible chunks that I could pick off at my own pace.

I think its hard to deny that BOTW would be a much better game if it had 5-6 OOT/MM style temples in it in addition to the shrines. 

The Divine Beasts already kinda fill that role; about the only thing that could really use improvement there IMO was if both the Beasts and their bosses were themed instead of all having the same aesthetic.

HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

I never found climbing "broken" in the slightest; you can bypass some of Hyrule Castle by climbing, great; you'll miss a bunch of secrets and stuff if you do, but if you're impatient to just get to Ganon, the game lets you. 

And I'd actually say some of the shrine challenges in BOTW are among the coolest puzzles in the entire series, such as the one where you guide a rolling ball through a Rude Golberg esque course of mechanisms, or another where you have to get a cube of ice through a gauntlet of fire-based obstacle while it slowly melts. I quite liked that it broke the dungeons down into digestible chunks that I could pick off at my own pace.

I've found climbing to break the game from fairly early in game - 2 stamina bars is all you need to get anywhere, and with infinite respawns of ingredients, you can cook up enough shit to even climb in rain without lot of problems.
Now, I'm all for climbing in games (especially in RPGs), been clamoring about it since forever, but it needs to be done properly - committing to that should be a playstyle decision and take a lot of skill points and learning in-game how to do it (talking RPGs in general, not BotW) - this will give you expert climber, but your character will inevitably suffer in other areas.
The way it's done in BotW just kills exploration for me, so world design becomes broken easily - just climb here, maybe find another worthless loot and glide down again with paraglider.

I skipped whole Hyrule Castle by accident really - not that I cared to bother with it much, tbh, at that point I was so bored with game that I couldn't care less. I did reload when I beat Ganon to see what I missed and went through castle - let's just say I haven't felt I've missed much first time for skipping so much of it.

In the end, it was decent game, but it just shows how much they lack when it comes to building open worlds, with proper main and side quest (well, most devs do).

When I finished it, first thing I thought of was - will I ever replay it? And unlike all other 3D Zeldas, answer was resounding no - maybe I'll even press myself to play through MM finally after this, but I'd take any other 3D Zelda over BotW.

I still don't see how climbing is "broken". Typically this is used to describe something that inadvertently violates the game's rules and allows the player to do things they shouldn't be able to do; climbing in BOTW doesn't do that as it's factored into the game's design.

To get even two stamina wheels means not only putting in the effort of beating shrines, but also diverting spirit orbs away from extending your health, so your character does as you put it "suffer in other areas". The second circle is 20 orbs, so that means you're sacrificing 5 hearts to complete it.

If the game just wasn't your cup of tea though, that's fair enough.



curl-6 said:
contestgamer said:

I think its hard to deny that BOTW would be a much better game if it had 5-6 OOT/MM style temples in it in addition to the shrines. 

The Divine Beasts already kinda fill that role; about the only thing that could really use improvement there IMO was if both the Beasts and their bosses were themed instead of all having the same aesthetic.

HoloDust said:

I've found climbing to break the game from fairly early in game - 2 stamina bars is all you need to get anywhere, and with infinite respawns of ingredients, you can cook up enough shit to even climb in rain without lot of problems.
Now, I'm all for climbing in games (especially in RPGs), been clamoring about it since forever, but it needs to be done properly - committing to that should be a playstyle decision and take a lot of skill points and learning in-game how to do it (talking RPGs in general, not BotW) - this will give you expert climber, but your character will inevitably suffer in other areas.
The way it's done in BotW just kills exploration for me, so world design becomes broken easily - just climb here, maybe find another worthless loot and glide down again with paraglider.

I skipped whole Hyrule Castle by accident really - not that I cared to bother with it much, tbh, at that point I was so bored with game that I couldn't care less. I did reload when I beat Ganon to see what I missed and went through castle - let's just say I haven't felt I've missed much first time for skipping so much of it.

In the end, it was decent game, but it just shows how much they lack when it comes to building open worlds, with proper main and side quest (well, most devs do).

When I finished it, first thing I thought of was - will I ever replay it? And unlike all other 3D Zeldas, answer was resounding no - maybe I'll even press myself to play through MM finally after this, but I'd take any other 3D Zelda over BotW.

I still don't see how climbing is "broken". Typically this is used to describe something that inadvertently violates the game's rules and allows the player to do things they shouldn't be able to do; climbing in BOTW doesn't do that as it's factored into the game's design.

To get even two stamina wheels means not only putting in the effort of beating shrines, but also diverting spirit orbs away from extending your health, so your character does as you put it "suffer in other areas". The second circle is 20 orbs, so that means you're sacrificing 5 hearts to complete it.

If the game just wasn't your cup of tea though, that's fair enough.

Divine beasts were nothing like temples... maybe if they were 5-10 times longer, had intricate puzzles, find the keys, better bosses and unique layouts/designs.



contestgamer said:
curl-6 said:

The Divine Beasts already kinda fill that role; about the only thing that could really use improvement there IMO was if both the Beasts and their bosses were themed instead of all having the same aesthetic.

I still don't see how climbing is "broken". Typically this is used to describe something that inadvertently violates the game's rules and allows the player to do things they shouldn't be able to do; climbing in BOTW doesn't do that as it's factored into the game's design.

To get even two stamina wheels means not only putting in the effort of beating shrines, but also diverting spirit orbs away from extending your health, so your character does as you put it "suffer in other areas". The second circle is 20 orbs, so that means you're sacrificing 5 hearts to complete it.

If the game just wasn't your cup of tea though, that's fair enough.

Divine beasts were nothing like temples... maybe if they were 5-10 times longer, had intricate puzzles, find the keys, better bosses and unique layouts/designs.

I actually like them shorter; as others have said, the multi-hour dungeons of previous Zeldas became a bit of a slog. I much prefer being able to sit down and smash one out in a comfortable 40-50 minute sitting.

And I thought their layout/puzzles/designs were superb. As I've said, the only thing I'd change is make both the dungeons and the bosses themed instead of all having the same aesthetic.



curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

I've found climbing to break the game from fairly early in game - 2 stamina bars is all you need to get anywhere, and with infinite respawns of ingredients, you can cook up enough shit to even climb in rain without lot of problems.
Now, I'm all for climbing in games (especially in RPGs), been clamoring about it since forever, but it needs to be done properly - committing to that should be a playstyle decision and take a lot of skill points and learning in-game how to do it (talking RPGs in general, not BotW) - this will give you expert climber, but your character will inevitably suffer in other areas.
The way it's done in BotW just kills exploration for me, so world design becomes broken easily - just climb here, maybe find another worthless loot and glide down again with paraglider.

I skipped whole Hyrule Castle by accident really - not that I cared to bother with it much, tbh, at that point I was so bored with game that I couldn't care less. I did reload when I beat Ganon to see what I missed and went through castle - let's just say I haven't felt I've missed much first time for skipping so much of it.

In the end, it was decent game, but it just shows how much they lack when it comes to building open worlds, with proper main and side quest (well, most devs do).

When I finished it, first thing I thought of was - will I ever replay it? And unlike all other 3D Zeldas, answer was resounding no - maybe I'll even press myself to play through MM finally after this, but I'd take any other 3D Zelda over BotW.

I still don't see how climbing is "broken". Typically this is used to describe something that inadvertently violates the game's rules and allows the player to do things they shouldn't be able to do; climbing in BOTW doesn't do that as it's factored into the game's design.

To get even two stamina wheels means not only putting in the effort of beating shrines, but also diverting spirit orbs away from extending your health, so your character does as you put it "suffer in other areas". The second circle is 20 orbs, so that means you're sacrificing 5 hearts to complete it.

If the game just wasn't your cup of tea though, that's fair enough.

Broken in a sense, why go to trouble of making such world if you can pretty much bypass anything with a bit of climbing - even things you shouldn't be able to, like path to Zora's or Hyrule Castle. And 20 orbs is potatoes really, especially when you can rearrange health and stamina for very low price whenever you want (another broken stuff that gets you Master Sword early, and I won't even go into ridicilous "breaking weapons as incentive to experiment" koolaid mantra). Like I said, there is good way to implement climbing (I don't intend to elaborate it here, anyone with basic knowledge of something like D&D can figure it out), but BotW's way sure feels quite world breaking to me.

Puzzle shrines are incredibly easy, they all look the same, and, woopdeedo, they all give the same thing - orb. For me they are epitome of lazy design, as if they were given to interns to practice level design and in no way can replace great temples/dungeons from previous games. I never had problems with them in any Zelda, I actually like them, no matter how much I can shit on Aonuma at times, but that's mainly cause of too much focus on them alone in Zeldas, and not enough overworld stuff.

That indeed changed in BotW, but now it's unbalanced the other way around - whole time I was playing the game I had this feeiling they didn't know exactly what they wanted to make, so they've slapped several machanisms that on their own might be somewhat cool, but mixed together just don't work.

It's not a bad game by any means, I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars (I like AdventureGamers scoring system, so 3.5 reads as "A solid adventure that is generally enjoyable, though it lacks enough polish or ambition to recommend without caution"), but I sure do hope they will change plethora of things for next instalment, cause this doesn't feel like Zelda to me anymore, but a mishmash of different popular mainstream mechanisms done with Nintendo flair.

Last edited by HoloDust - on 30 April 2018

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HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

I still don't see how climbing is "broken". Typically this is used to describe something that inadvertently violates the game's rules and allows the player to do things they shouldn't be able to do; climbing in BOTW doesn't do that as it's factored into the game's design.

To get even two stamina wheels means not only putting in the effort of beating shrines, but also diverting spirit orbs away from extending your health, so your character does as you put it "suffer in other areas". The second circle is 20 orbs, so that means you're sacrificing 5 hearts to complete it.

If the game just wasn't your cup of tea though, that's fair enough.

Broken in a sense, why go to trouble of making such world if you can pretty much bypass anything with a bit of climbing - even things you shouldn't be able to, like path to Zora's or Hyrule Castle. And 20 orbs is potatoes really, especially when you can rearrange health and stamina for very low price whenever you want (another broken stuff that gets you Master Sword early, and I won't even go into ridicilous "breaking weapons as incentive to experiment" koolaid mantra). Like I said, there is good way to implement climbing (I don't intend to elaborate it here, anyone with basic knowledge of something like D&D can figure it out), but BotW's way sure feels quite world breaking to me.

Puzzle shrines are incredibly easy, they all look the same, and, woopdeedo, they all give the same thing - orb. For me they are epitome of lazy design, as if they were given to interns to practice level design and in no way can replace great temples/dungeons from previous games. I never had problems with them in any Zelda, I actually like them, no matter how much I can shit on Aonuma at times, but that's mainly cause of too much focus on them alone in Zeldas, and not enough overworld stuff.

That indeed changed in BotW, but now it's unbalanced the other way around - whole time I was playing the game I had this feeiling they didn't know exactly what they wanted to make, so they've slapped several machanisms that on their own might be somewhat cool, but mixed together just don't work.

It's not a bad game by any means, I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars (I like AdventureGamers scoring system, so 3.5 reads as "A solid adventure that is generally enjoyable, though it lacks enough polish or ambition to recommend without caution"), but I sure do hope they will change plethora of things for next instalment, cause this doesn't feel like Zelda to me anymore, but a mishmash of different popular mainstream mechanisms done with Nintendo flair.

I still don't see how that's "broken" since the world isn't meant to be tackled in a linear fashion. There is no "correct" path through the game, it's designed in such a way that climbing is a viable method of exploring providing the player makes sufficient investment into building up their stamina, so it works much the same as levelling up a skill in an RPG.

Same goes for the Master Sword; it doesn't matter how you get the 13 hearts so long as you get them, that's not "broken", it's simply the game giving you options. To "break" the game implies a violation of the rules; BOTW doesn't do that, it simply make the rules loose and flexible in the first place.

The shrines weren't particularly difficult, that is true, but honestly, I liked that. Nothing kills the fun for me like my progress being ground to a halt by an obtuse puzzle. The ones in BOTW were logical and intuitive enough that I never got stuck, yet every one of them was clever enough that I got a little mental buzz from solving them.

Random thought; if the next Zelda does follow the template of BOTW and does not meet your criteria, might I suggest trying out Darksiders III? That's a series that draws a lot from the Ocarina-Skyward Sword school of Zelda design, maybe that will hit the spot for you.



CaptainExplosion said:
Now I really hope it becomes the top selling 3D Zelda across all platforms! :D

It will. It's already the highest on a single platform, and the highest excluding remasters, after just 13 months.



curl-6 said:
CaptainExplosion said:
Now I really hope it becomes the top selling 3D Zelda across all platforms! :D

It will. It's already the highest on a single platform, and the highest excluding remasters, after just 13 months.

The question is, will this trend keep going. If Zelda is a franchise that is on the rise, the next games should have higher sales than usual.



curl-6 said:

Skyward Sword was a good game, but it did show that the series formula was becoming very stale.

Breath of the Wild was exactly what the franchise needed; a bold reinvention.

BotW takes a lot from SS. From what I have seen from the multiple replays I've done of SS:

- Stamina introduction

- A more agile Link

- An story where Zelda plays a big role and it's as important (or even more) than Link, up to the point that she even has her own adventure

- More open areas and less corridors (like TP)

- Higher difficulty

- More damage from enemies

- Bosses like Ghirahim were there wasn't an obvious weak point and more like real combat

- Better use of every tool inside and outside of dungeons

- Upgrades, cooking (potions in SS)

- Better use of rupees

 

Those are the ones I remember.

This is understable considering Fujibayashi directed both games.

 

I also have especulated that maybe SS was an open world game (considering the story and dowsing mechanic), but due to the motion controls implementation and lack of power from the Wii made it impossible to make.



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It's so nice to finally see Zelda join the juggernaut franchises in terms of sales. For as high of a profile as the series has always had in the industry, the sales have never quite lived up to that. Until BotW. Hopefully it continues like that from here. I'd like to see the next one as the Switch's big 2020 holiday release, after they have all the heavy hitters like Pokemon, Smash, and AC out.