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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump is over - Chemical Attacks Staged

 

Will you vote for Trump in 2020?

No 82 70.69%
 
Yes 34 29.31%
 
Total:116
Rogerioandrade said:
Just as a side note, It´s actually very hard to know what exactly is happening in Syria right now. Media doesn´t have much access to the country as they pretend to have.

People have been posting videos recorded with mobiles on social media, showing people dying by chemical attacks,people hiding in underground caves during bombings, crying for help, among other very sensitive things. I have not seen reports like that on traditional media.

Of course, no one claim responsability for those attacks, but there´s something very very wrong about what´s happening in Syria and something must be done for those people.

I don´t think that such attack will cause a major international war. Russia does not seem to care much about people in Syria. Maybe they´re just interested in oil or whatever resources the country may provide them, regardless what Bashar Al-Assad does with its people.

"but there´s something very very wrong about what´s happening in Syria and something must be done for those people."

how about not funding rebel groups with connections to al qaeda and isis?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/08/free-syrian-army-rebels-defect-islamist-group



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o_O.Q said:
Faust said:

 

The whole "being in the center" just means inaction which translates to just let the corporate America get away with anything as long as they bribe our politician.

 

Fun Fact: This guy is a democrat, but im pretty darn sure if i ask a so called conservative anywhere about specific issues, the would probably be to the left of this guy but still, they would associate him as a left wing politician based solely on his party. This is no about policy is about playing for a team.

 

maybe he flip flopped after planned parenthood were caught blatantly lying

or maybe he is just pandering??? crazy idea i know =/



coolbeans said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, your posts afterwards muddied it. In regards to Mussolini specifically, yes he was a socialist before but he had dropped those leanings when he embraced fascism. I also gave examples earlier in this thread that dispute Hitler being a socialist, namely the existence of private industry and even privatization of certain sectors. It was the same with fascist Italy:

http://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/12319

So, it's not just baseless to call them right-wing.

Fair enough.  I can admit the preceding sentences weren't finely tuned.  You see: this kind of myopic personification bothers me; as though a guy born to vocal socialist parents, continually utilizing similar rhetoric in his writing, etc. can just flip a switch on his political alignments (the Xbox One of European history conveniently!).  That's especially so when you can find quotes from him like this:  "Fascism recognizes the real needs that gave rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or cooperative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State."  (Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions [1935])  

Wait...if the mere existence of a private industry/privatization disputes the notion of one being 'socialist' then what the hell have I been hearing about Scandinavia's socialist utopias since my early teens, despite them hovering around a similar level of economic freedom as the USA?  But now I'm just getting a little facetious.

Not totally, no.  As I previously acknowledged with some of Hitler's actions that'd make a Middle Ages theocrat envious; however, I still consider such a categorization lacking sophistication.

He's saying that he can understand why socialism exists and was gaining popularity, but not necessarily that they were socialist.

As for Scandinavia, that's a common misconception too, as they are social democracies, but not socialist states.



Ahh the Hitler argument when the left has nothing to fight back with thats the go to, or some other BS. Means nothing and goes nowhere.



 

the-pi-guy said:
LiquorandGunFun said:

Ahh the Hitler argument when the left has nothing to fight back with thats the go to, or some other BS. Means nothing and goes nowhere.

Even though it was a conservative who brought it up first.  

still means nothing. hitler just left office if you ask a conservative so whats your point. Hitler is the word for anyone who opposes your view now.



 

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Just to be clear, government spending is not the same thing as socialism. Government spending predates socialism by millennia.

Socialism involves government spending, but in a very specific way.

When we say "socialism" today, especially in English, it is specifically referring to what Marx and Engels described. Not State Socialism, not National Socialism. By translating Nazism into national socialism, and then calling it socialism - you are conflating two very different things.
It would be like translating the Swiss or Austrian "Ground Apple" and using that as an argument to say that potatoes are a kind of apple. The correct generic word for Nazism is fascism.

Fascism NOT related to Marxist socialism, it is in extreme opposition of it.

The goal of socialism is the elimination of class struggle. Equalization of income is a major aim, and is independent of race, creed, and other factors.
The goal of fascism is to codify and regulate the class struggle and the strengthening of nationalistic ideals. They are against equalization of income and instead believe in strong income for strong merits toward the national identity (e.g. a strongly built, healthy, blond-haired, blue-eyed, productive, pure-blooded German would see the highest rewards).
The Nazi brand of fascism acknowledges the superiority of the Aryan master race and believes in extremist social Darwinistic action to be taken against Jews, Slavs, Marxists, blacks, gays, and other groups - which included enslavement and extermination.

Economically: fascism is neither left nor right, and it is not something in the middle either, it's a completely different axis; more like up or down; since leftist economies aim to help out the poor and weak and do not aim to make an elite group rich, fascism is the opposite and specifically aims to make their elites rich; but, it is not a free market like right-wing economics either, since the rules are set up so specific people fitting a proper national image are the ones that can prosper (rather than, as Hitler put it, the Jews).
Socially: with left being globalist, and right being nationalistic, fascism is definitely at the extreme right.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 16 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

coolbeans said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, your posts afterwards muddied it. In regards to Mussolini specifically, yes he was a socialist before but he had dropped those leanings when he embraced fascism. I also gave examples earlier in this thread that dispute Hitler being a socialist, namely the existence of private industry and even privatization of certain sectors. It was the same with fascist Italy:

http://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/12319

So, it's not just baseless to call them right-wing.

Fair enough.  I can admit the preceding sentences weren't finely tuned.  You see: this kind of myopic personification bothers me; as though a guy born to vocal socialist parents, continually utilizing similar rhetoric in his writing, etc. can just flip a switch on his political alignments (the Xbox One of European history conveniently!).  That's especially so when you can find quotes from him like this:  "Fascism recognizes the real needs that gave rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or cooperative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State."  (Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions [1935])  

Wait...if the mere existence of a private industry/privatization disputes the notion of one being 'socialist' then what the hell have I been hearing about Scandinavia's socialist utopias since my early teens, despite them hovering around a similar level of economic freedom as the USA?  But now I'm just getting a little facetious.

Not totally, no.  As I previously acknowledged with some of Hitler's actions that'd make a Middle Ages theocrat envious; however, I still consider such a categorization lacking sophistication.

 Dude, enough, i was responding to the other guy who claimed that communism and fascism are the same. All im saying is, if your are gonna strawman the hell outta any left wing policy that some people like, at least quote Stalin, Mao or any actual left wing authoritarian leader u wanna throw at us. Hitler isnt one of them.

 



LiquorandGunFun said:
the-pi-guy said:

Even though it was a conservative who brought it up first.  

still means nothing. hitler just left office if you ask a conservative so whats your point. Hitler is the word for anyone who opposes your view now.

Nobody said the right is bad cuz Hitler tho. 



Faust said:
LiquorandGunFun said:

still means nothing. hitler just left office if you ask a conservative so whats your point. Hitler is the word for anyone who opposes your view now.

Nobody said the right is bad cuz Hitler tho. 

and what form of government did he use?

 

Get all the information out there, dont skim over the part you like.



 

LiquorandGunFun said:
Faust said:

Nobody said the right is bad cuz Hitler tho. 

and what form of government did he use?

 

Get all the information out there, dont skim over the part you like.

i fu**ing hate democrats if that is what r u implying. I hate them so much that i couldnt bring myself to vote for Hillary even knowing how bad Trump and the republicans are.

and about your question... errrm communism?

 

Edit: Btw projection?

Ahh the Hitler argument when the left has nothing to fight back with thats the go to, or some other BS. Means nothing and goes nowhere.

Last edited by Faust - on 16 April 2018