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Forums - Politics Discussion - US, UK and France launch attack on Syria, including its capital Damascus

poklane said:
Strike will last multiple days

CNN is the least trustworthy news source on what the president is doing. They already said that this was the only attack.



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Vid starts at 9:55

Bad timing with this, people won't live to enjoy GoTY, it's one of the good times to be in a country which is pretty much too small to be a target for any bombings in retaliation for this, unless someone really fucks up a shot at the UK.

That point where you try to talk someone down from an attack by firing 50+ missiles in attempts to trigger peace talks... honestly as they say, fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

John2290 said:
Is it confirmed no Russians were hit?

It looks that way. I'm reading the Syrians had advance knowledge of the attack and the missile strike was largely a failure. They made preparations "a couple days ago"  If true, that's going to be a bad look for Einstein after opening his big, fat mouth about the strike "a couple days ago". Good night everyone. It's Psycho-Pass time!

Last edited by COKTOE - on 14 April 2018

- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Mar1217 said:
Johnw1104 said:

I don't think there's an option on the table among the seemingly endless factions within Syria and those involving themselves from outside the country that will lead to a happy conclusion in the short term. I mean, you speak of "undemocratic decisions" and yet they live under an autocrat who uses chemical weapons on his own people. There aren't exactly any bloodless options to go with at this point.

These are just allegations, nothing has been proven yet. The UN's organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons were due to visit Damascus on Saturday to determine wheter chemical weapons were used in Douma in 7 April.

How inconvenient these strikes must be ...

So, you think going into a rampage to kill innocents life in the name of these "killings" are gonna brought us peace ? Diplomacy was and is still the better way to go, there's no excuse for these "democratic" states to not at least consult their pop. (a referendum) and make a clearer decision based on facts and not allegations.

First, no, this won't "bring peace". Frankly, I don't see how any "peace" will come about in that region for ages with all animosity between the many different religious groups and the contradictory interests of regional powers like Turkey and Iran, let alone Russia/Assad and western powers. If "peace" is subjugation by an autocratic monster like Assad, one must ask if that's even something to hope for. Heck, Putin is Assad's only friend at this point, and it's mighty coincidental that Russia's only year-round warm water naval port in the Mediterranean is located in Syria; no one, Putin included, are under the delusion that this man actually deserving of support, it's simply too important strategically for him not to do so.

Otherwise, he has been tied to use of chemical weapons in past investigations that no one this side of Putin or Assad disputes. You speak of "convenience", and yet just a couple of days ago Russia vetoed the UN's motion to set up an independent investigation into these allegations, so we'd never get to properly confirm blame regardless. 

Thus far they've targeted three separate locations all known to be involved in the production and storage of chemical weapons (specifically avoiding any Russian targets), and they're waiting to see how many targets they hit and how many were shot down before launching a second wave. It is hardly a "rampage to kill innocent life". All we can hope at this point is that the bombs were indeed "smart" and avoided as many additional casualties as possible, though I have no doubt both sides will claim minimal causalities on one side and hundreds or thousands on the other.

Seriously though, this won't bring about peace. I don't think a damn thing anyone is doing or attempting to do in Syria will bring peace. I truly have no idea what should (or can) be done.



John2290 said:
Is it confirmed no Russians were hit?

Their top priority in picking the targets, aside from being involved in the production or storage of chemical weapons, was making sure no Russians were anywhere near those targets. Hopefully they were right.



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COKTOE said:
John2290 said:
Is it confirmed no Russians were hit?

It looks that way. I'm reading the Syrians had advance knowledge of the attack and the missile strike was largely a failure. They made preparations "a couple days ago"  If true, that's going to be a bad look for Einstein after opened his big, fat mouth about the strike "a couple days ago". Good night everyone. It's Psycho-Pass time!

It won't matter much. This is merely the first wave as they wait to see how much damage was inflicted. If they wish, they have far more missiles to fire than Russia has interceptor missiles.

One has to wonder what Russia's response will be though... will they physically place Russians around the country so as to deter attack? Their options are fairly limited for the moment otherwise, but that alone might be effective.



John2290 said:
This is an act of war against Russia folks, it's done. America and Russia will soon be at war.

No they won't. 



John2290 said:
God damn this misinformation. RT are saying Russia was informed, obviously but other western outlets are running with that while many others have a response from Russia that warns of consequences yet no mention Russia was informed. Is there a site out there that can actually update facts in real time without adding fake news and altering it 5 minutes later?

It's not necessarily even fake news. When shit like this goes down no one really knows what has happened immediately and the only information available is largely misinformation via hearsay and telephone tag. How many times have we seen things like shooters or natural disasters be reported a dozen different ways throughout the day before solid information starts coming through?



Johnw1104 said:
Mar1217 said:

These are just allegations, nothing has been proven yet. The UN's organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons were due to visit Damascus on Saturday to determine wheter chemical weapons were used in Douma in 7 April.

How inconvenient these strikes must be ...

So, you think going into a rampage to kill innocents life in the name of these "killings" are gonna brought us peace ? Diplomacy was and is still the better way to go, there's no excuse for these "democratic" states to not at least consult their pop. (a referendum) and make a clearer decision based on facts and not allegations.

First, no, this won't "bring peace". Frankly, I don't see how any "peace" will come about in that region for ages with all animosity between the many different religious groups and the contradictory interests of regional powers like Turkey and Iran, let alone Russia/Assad and western powers. If "peace" is subjugation by an autocratic monster like Assad, one must ask if that's even something to hope for. Heck, Putin is Assad's only friend at this point, and it's mighty coincidental that Russia's only year-round warm water naval port in the Mediterranean is located in Syria; no one, Putin included, are under the delusion that this man actually deserving of support, it's simply too important strategically for him not to do so.

Otherwise, he has been tied to use of chemical weapons in past investigations that no one this side of Putin or Assad disputes. You speak of "convenience", and yet just a couple of days ago Russia vetoed the UN's motion to set up an independent investigation into these allegations, so we'd never get to properly confirm blame regardless. 

Thus far they've targeted three separate locations all known to be involved in the production and storage of chemical weapons (specifically avoiding any Russian targets), and they're waiting to see how many targets they hit and how many were shot down before launching a second wave. It is hardly a "rampage to kill innocent life". All we can hope at this point is that the bombs were indeed "smart" and avoided as many additional casualties as possible, though I have no doubt both sides will claim minimal causalities on one side and hundreds or thousands on the other.

Seriously though, this won't bring about peace. I don't think a damn thing anyone is doing or attempting to do in Syria will bring peace. I truly have no idea what should (or can) be done.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22424188

well actually it was the united states backed rebels  trying to bring about sharia law that launched the attacks to begin with

 

and lets not forget that these wars were planned long before anyway



o_O.Q said:
Johnw1104 said:

First, no, this won't "bring peace". Frankly, I don't see how any "peace" will come about in that region for ages with all animosity between the many different religious groups and the contradictory interests of regional powers like Turkey and Iran, let alone Russia/Assad and western powers. If "peace" is subjugation by an autocratic monster like Assad, one must ask if that's even something to hope for. Heck, Putin is Assad's only friend at this point, and it's mighty coincidental that Russia's only year-round warm water naval port in the Mediterranean is located in Syria; no one, Putin included, are under the delusion that this man actually deserving of support, it's simply too important strategically for him not to do so.

Otherwise, he has been tied to use of chemical weapons in past investigations that no one this side of Putin or Assad disputes. You speak of "convenience", and yet just a couple of days ago Russia vetoed the UN's motion to set up an independent investigation into these allegations, so we'd never get to properly confirm blame regardless. 

Thus far they've targeted three separate locations all known to be involved in the production and storage of chemical weapons (specifically avoiding any Russian targets), and they're waiting to see how many targets they hit and how many were shot down before launching a second wave. It is hardly a "rampage to kill innocent life". All we can hope at this point is that the bombs were indeed "smart" and avoided as many additional casualties as possible, though I have no doubt both sides will claim minimal causalities on one side and hundreds or thousands on the other.

Seriously though, this won't bring about peace. I don't think a damn thing anyone is doing or attempting to do in Syria will bring peace. I truly have no idea what should (or can) be done.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22424188

well actually it was the united states backed rebels  trying to bring about sharia law that launched the attacks to begin with

 

and lets not forget that these wars were planned long before anyway

Did you actually read your own link? It was one woman within the UN who stated there were strong reasons for suspicions based on interviews but no solid evidence. The rest of her team quickly scaled back that statement as it was unfounded and reckless.

You also speak as if "Syrian rebels" are a single, unified faction, and that the US was backing all of them, rather than an absolute mess of competing factions and interests. We can't know who actually used that particular sarin gas (though everyone outside of Russia largely believed it was Assad in that instance), but the onus is on those who believe it was the rebels to explain where on earth they were able to acquire the gas which Assad's regime conveniently has large stockpiles of. Perhaps they were able to get their hands on those, who knows? Occam's razor suggests that the regime which owns chemical weapons and is time after time linked to using them may have been the guilty party in this instance.

I honestly hadn't thought about that Gen. Wesley Clark bit since he was involved in politics, but I've always had a lot of questions about it. In what world did they think such an attack, 7 countries in 5 years, was even feasible? Second, what possible benefit was there to attacking these countries, some of which we had fairly good relations with? Also, seriously, Somalia? The whole thing just seems too bizarre to be literally true, and given they didn't invade beyond Iraq I sincerely doubt they were meant to be taken as such.

The truth is every war that happens is in some way planned. Militaries write up invasion plans and defensive war plans for every contingency they can think of; I'd be shocked if China didn't revise their "invasion of Taiwan" plans annually heh. Those, I imagine, were likely contingency plans of that nature, as no person on earth could believe they'd generate enough support for such a rampage. I'm sure we still have them for war with Mexico, Russia, China, North Korea, most of the relevant middle eastern nations... basically anyone who seems like there's even the slightest chance we'll be at war with at some point. One need only look at the plans the US and Canada wrote up and revised regarding a potential war with one another a century ago to see how just about every war is "planned" for, but most don't actually happen.

Frankly, if you suddenly face a war you didn't plan for, your brain trusts and top military brass need to be replaced.