By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dragon Quest XI for Switch delay due UE4, game based on PS4 version of game, why was announced for Switch so early

Nem said:
Nuvendil said:

snipped for length

I am a realist, I know many games are a challenge, I know Switch versions take time.  I never would have requested Doom or Wolfenstein 2 at all and never would have complained of their absence.  And their presence doesn't have me up in arms demanding Battlefront 2 or Battlefield 1 or Witcher 3.  Cool as those would be, those are very challenging.  And I am not complaining at all about Wolfenstein 2's dev cycle cause I get it.  

But DQXI?  No.  No, this is not acceptable.  Wouldn't be on the PS4 or Xbone or PC.  When you take all the elements into consideration, there is no excuse.  This is on Square.  And this is unacceptable.

 

 

Edit:  Sorry this is such a wall of text and I'm sure you weren't trying to pick a fight, but I've seen the attitude I described far too often and it bugs me to death.  And also, calling your opinion the unbiased one, implying those who disagree are biased and wrong by default came off as quite condescending and abrasive.

If i came across with a high and mighty tone, i apologise it wasn't my intention. I don't think i did, but everyone knows that if you post something critical about Nintendo here you get jumped by a pack of wolves.

You were thoughtful so i'm replying to say that i agree with you that squeenix should never have announced a switch version and should have brought the 3DS version. The switch version will probably still come, but they aren't willing to do the engine heavy lifting, wich is their legitimate choice. This statement is them trying to get pressure out.

But you know, theres a root problem on why such a modified version of the engine is required. So, it's just the reality of Nintendo's choices.

Like I said, I'm a realist.  I don't expect devs the world over to drop what they're doing and start making Switch versions immediately and delay their launches just for a simultaneous launch.  I don't expect Switch versions to materialize from thin air when a company like Bandai makes a big show of promising support.  I wasn't even that bothered that DQXI launched first on PS4. 

But the leeway afforded by the Switch's timing and specs only gets you so far.  In the case of DQXI, I think they've gone well beyond that.  They announced the game in 2016, have had dev kits since about that time, have had Unreal Engine 4 official Switch support for over a year, and have had almost a year (and by September over a year) to work on porting the game post-PS4 launch.  And all they have to show is an unspecified long delay and a statement that they haven't even done step 1, complaining of compatibility that was added over a year ago by Epic and has been constantly improved since?  Even Shin Megami Tensei 5, a new game that was at the very start of development in January 2017, has screenshots.  They've had plenty of time. Even if all they had was a trailer and a Q1 2019 release window I wouldn't be as condemning. But they don't even have that and looking at all the factors, all the circumstances, and looking at the game itself, that doesn't make any sense.



Around the Network
Nuvendil said:

Meanwhile, at Sudio Wild Card

https://youtu.be/6B6kJm5pOx8

Seriously, this should have been taken care of ages ago.  The UE4 Switch support updates went out over a YEAR AGO.  But here we have a plucky indie dev and their small time porting studio partner beating one of the wealthiest and most influential Japanese publishers to the punch with a game that gives the PS4 and Xbone a run for their money.  

 

This is a display of frankly hilariously sad incompetence.

Good point! Squeenix is becoming one of the laziest devs/publishers on the planet.



Retro Tech Select - My Youtube channel. Covers throwback consumer electronics with a focus on "vid'ya games."

Latest Video: Top 12: Best Games on the N64 - Special Features, Episode 7

StuOhQ said:
Nuvendil said:

Meanwhile, at Sudio Wild Card

https://youtu.be/6B6kJm5pOx8

Seriously, this should have been taken care of ages ago.  The UE4 Switch support updates went out over a YEAR AGO.  But here we have a plucky indie dev and their small time porting studio partner beating one of the wealthiest and most influential Japanese publishers to the punch with a game that gives the PS4 and Xbone a run for their money.  

 

This is a display of frankly hilariously sad incompetence.

Good point! Squeenix is becoming one of the laziest devs/publishers on the planet.

Wow, I forgot all about this! It's sad that we can't at least get a demo showing or a screenshot or something. Studio Wild Card didn't announce a Switch game in 2016 and they've already got a demo of their game running on Switch ready to show, that's just embarrassing. 



Ljink96 said:

And that helps your case...how? lol It's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign that they are inexperienced with current gen pipelines, which would affect development time. Armor project has never been ahead of the curve or even on the curve in terms of the art side of game development, coding is coding, they could code in assembley and it'd be a good Dragon Quest mechanically. So yes, they were strangers to it because they never used a PBR engine before XI. They only did the back end of Dragon Quest VIII, and Level 5 did the front end, which is why it looked the way it did. They contracted Level 5 rather than their internal team because they wanted a specific style for DQVIII and possibly learn from Level 5. 

And I didn't say because they outsource they don't have standards, they haven't in the past been as adequate as Square in that department. And we're not bringing up the 3DS version because it's not even being released in the west...it's not being delayed. Why even bring that up? They were well staffed on both versions, and it's a SD game, something they're familiar with. People don't understand the difficulty of working with HD games, hell even Nintendo underestimated it, and for Armor Project it wouldn't have been any different. Nobody is calling anyone weak, just inexperienced and it happens. DQVIII looks the way it does because of Level 5, not Armor Project whom didn't really get 3D all that well until VIII. They're an old fashioned company still, to this day. Really simplistic and they move at their own pace. Nothing wrong with that, but there are repercussions to that. 

Outsourcing =/= Inexperienced (the studio is OVER TWO DECADES old)

Armor Project are not idiots and the vast majority of high end developers have only transitioned to a PBR workflow at the beginning of this generation so nearly everyone started from scratch when working on the basis of the technology ... (PBR was relatively new technology and most developers didn't have access to it until the very end of last generation)

Don't even dismiss the work they did on the 3DS version just because it's not getting localized, tons of man hours were poured into getting the game up and running on the 3DS ... (they worked on what was essentially TWO different games at the same time)

Why are you even downplaying the work put in by Armor Project ? 



Nuvendil said:

Like I said, I'm a realist. 

No. You are not. You adhere to a negative conclusion you built and dismiss any arguments that aren't as negative as yours. 

"It can only be incompetence" isn't a realistic statement. It's your emotional reaction to what is going on with that version of the game, which I assume is the version you were looking forward to. You know nothing about the actual state of the game other than what's said in the statement included in the OP, yet the only conclusion you come up with is that the studio is incompetent, don't know what they're doing, etc. You don't know what is going on there. You have no idea what the problems are, if there are problems, or if it's a matter of prioritizing a version over another before tackling the porting process.  Nope, you argue over something you have next to no info on and only have a negative outlook on it.

Sorry, but you are a pessimist, not a realist. 

Last edited by Hynad - on 08 April 2018

Around the Network
StuOhQ said:
Nuvendil said:

Meanwhile, at Sudio Wild Card

https://youtu.be/6B6kJm5pOx8

Seriously, this should have been taken care of ages ago.  The UE4 Switch support updates went out over a YEAR AGO.  But here we have a plucky indie dev and their small time porting studio partner beating one of the wealthiest and most influential Japanese publishers to the punch with a game that gives the PS4 and Xbone a run for their money.  

 

This is a display of frankly hilariously sad incompetence.

Good point! Squeenix is becoming one of the laziest devs/publishers on the planet.

Rather than that, I believe they just take on too many ambitious projects (and overall projects in-general) at the same time while announcing them too early.



Hynad said:
Nuvendil said:

Like I said, I'm a realist. 

No. You are not. You adhere to a negative conclusion you built and dismiss any arguments that aren't as negative as yours. 

"It can only be incompetence" isn't a realistic statement. It's your emotional reaction to what is going on with that version of the game, which I assume is the version you were looking forward to. You know nothing about the actual state of the game other than what's said in the statement included in the OP, yet the only conclusion you come up with is that the studio is incompetent, don't know what they're doing, etc. You don't know what is going on there. You have no idea what the problems are, if there are problems, or if it's a matter of prioritizing a version over another before tackling the porting process.  Nope, you argue over something you have next to no info on and only have a negative outlook on it.

Sorry, but you are a pessimist, not a realist. 

Jokes on you cause I'm not even a Dragon Quest fan and don't even know if I will buy it.  I do know enough about working with UE4 to say that the statement reflects that they've essentially done nothing on the Switch version.  And it could be many kinds of incompetence at play.  Developer incompetence actually is least likely for Square.  Managerial incompetence is a Square staple though and I could absolutely see that.  And then there's incompetence at the business level, inefficient mismanaging funds, another Square staple with their obscene budgets, constant delays, corporate meddling.  

And I know that numerous other developers facing objectively more challenging porting jobs have gotten it done or made great progress.  I know multiple UE games are out or coming and have progress to show.  I know Square Enix is a massive company with enormous resources that shouldn't be outpaced by everyone.  

Oh and prioritizing finishing the PS4 version?  Fine.  That was finished in July of 2017, what have they been doing since?  

I don't expect that much honestly.  I DO expect *something*.  And they have *nothing*.  So tell me, how long should I wait to find their efforts inadequate?  Is there some time limit I should know about?  Cause right now the attitude you are giving off is so long as they don't cancel it, they can delay it until the heat death of the universe and so long as I and others don't have an insider who has seen the code, we can't complain.  Which is just silly.



Nuvendil said:
Hynad said:

No. You are not. You adhere to a negative conclusion you built and dismiss any arguments that aren't as negative as yours. 

"It can only be incompetence" isn't a realistic statement. It's your emotional reaction to what is going on with that version of the game, which I assume is the version you were looking forward to. You know nothing about the actual state of the game other than what's said in the statement included in the OP, yet the only conclusion you come up with is that the studio is incompetent, don't know what they're doing, etc. You don't know what is going on there. You have no idea what the problems are, if there are problems, or if it's a matter of prioritizing a version over another before tackling the porting process.  Nope, you argue over something you have next to no info on and only have a negative outlook on it.

Sorry, but you are a pessimist, not a realist. 

Jokes on you cause I'm not even a Dragon Quest fan and don't even know if I will buy it.  I do know enough about working with UE4 to say that the statement reflects that they've essentially done nothing on the Switch version.  And it could be many kinds of incompetence at play.  Developer incompetence actually is least likely for Square.  Managerial incompetence is a Square staple though and I could absolutely see that.  And then there's incompetence at the business level, inefficient mismanaging funds, another Square staple with their obscene budgets, constant delays, corporate meddling.  

And I know that numerous other developers facing objectively more challenging porting jobs have gotten it done or made great progress.  I know multiple UE games are out or coming and have progress to show.  I know Square Enix is a massive company with enormous resources that shouldn't be outpaced by everyone.  

Oh and prioritizing finishing the PS4 version?  Fine.  That was finished in July of 2017, what have they been doing since?  

I don't expect that much honestly.  I DO expect *something*.  And they have *nothing*.  So tell me, how long should I wait to find their efforts inadequate?  Is there some time limit I should know about?  Cause right now the attitude you are giving off is so long as they don't cancel it, they can delay it until the heat death of the universe and so long as I and others don't have an insider who has seen the code, we can't complain.  Which is just silly.

You do or think whatever you want.

You claim things as if they were definite despite having limited to no knowledge about what's going on with the Switch port. That's what you think and really, there is nothing anyone can say to make you change your mind on that. But don't go saying you're a realist when you can't see more than one possible reason why we haven't seen anything from that version of the game, when everything you can come up with is an interpretation that's all negative.




This isn't the first time SE had issues with game engines since XIII they seem to run into issues involving game engines, I know XV changed engines like twice.



It's like what I said on the other thread.
Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
If SE didn't announce it we will see the Ninty crowd crying and screaming foul that SE hates Switch.
And what's happening now we see post like. SE shouldn't have announce anything at all.
In all honesty SE won't be able to win regardless what they do in this situation.

And I am a bit right that they encounter with a problem with the engine.