Kirin_gaming said:
It doesn't, I think more than half the comments in the thread have nothing to do with the OP. |
Well, the TC didn't really provide any of his own input, as usual, se we essentially had to drive the discussion ourselves.
Kirin_gaming said:
It doesn't, I think more than half the comments in the thread have nothing to do with the OP. |
Well, the TC didn't really provide any of his own input, as usual, se we essentially had to drive the discussion ourselves.
o_O.Q said:
"Physical harassment and rape you need to stomp out" we haven't yet in our society so how would you suggest we do so? |
We've done enough already. You will never eliminate it, trying to only leads to overreach like banning cat calling.
o_O.Q said:
you mean the hunter gatherer tribes that shame/shamed men who attempt to compete or demonstrate their individuality in anyway that might conflict with the interests of the group? i always find it interesting when people bring those groups up because of how supposedly egalitarian they are without acknowledging that fact that they achieve that by beating the individuality out of their members i suppose lowering everyone down to the lowest common denominator is ok for some once you can have "equality"
the people of tribes like that would probably have stoned steve jobs for being "different" |
Yeah, but take a look at what they did to competing tribes...
contestgamer said:
Yeah, but take a look at what they did to competing tribes... |
they got wrecked by competing tribes... because they shame their men out of developing masculinity and dominance
furthermore the "competing tribes" now live in cities driving lamborghinis, picking up their meals from olive garden
while they still live in the bush hunting animals with spears
VGPolyglot said:
OK, if you won't answer him maybe you'll answer me. Do you believe there is a rape culture in the west? |
i believe there are many examples of media normalising sexual aggression
examples that come to mind would be literature like 50 shades of grey and rap music
the latter ironically enough never seems to come under criticism by the groups who are supposedly trying to stop the rape culture(and is as popular as ever) and the former topped best seller lists(selling particularly well among women)
"You and your husband have a fight
https://djbooth.net/features/2017-02-15-feminists-can-love-rap
https://thedebrief.co.uk/things-to-do/music/can-rap-fan-feminist/
but regardless yes sexual aggression is clearly normalised in much of our media
Last edited by o_O.Q - on 09 April 2018contestgamer said:
We've done enough already. You will never eliminate it, trying to only leads to overreach like banning cat calling. |
did you really just say that we will never stop rape from happening?
SuperRetroTurbo said: This isn't exactly new but yes the numbers of single parents are increasing. I didn't read the numbers my apologies but honestly I wouldn't need to living in the city I reside in...the evidence is just there. What happened? No one can definitively say what caused such change but I would tend to argue that traditional family values have been compromised by media and ideology. The influence of both premises' can in my opinion have a great impact on society and way of life. Is that the reason? More than likely but if it isn't then I would like to know because you're statement is an actuality that didn't just pop up out of nowhere...for no reason or without cause. |
This is what worries me. Not the fact that we need Adam and Eve and Adam and Steve can't be just as good, given some effort...
o_O.Q said: "incidents like robbery or stabbings have a realistic chance to occur during night time. On the other hand, marriages are made with no visible or known signs that rape is a realistic possibility" but is that true? is it not a widely held belief that we live in a rape culture? https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/ http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/People-March-Against-Rape-Culture-in-Iowa-City-479060463.html
and that rape culture is perpetuated through men http://theconversation.com/what-rape-culture-says-about-masculinity-85513 https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/seeing-sexual-harassment-and-violence-mens-issue/ |
If I may disagree, when you marry a human being you marry a person that is by definition not perfect and can potentially carry flaws, serious ones in some cases, and rape is not even the worst, that spouse could be a murderer, a sadist etc...
Though I'd agree with your assessment that it will not be obvious at least at first that a spouse can be a murderer or a sadist or to stay on the issue we discuss here, a rapist, getting to know that person well, actually very well would help towards determining what kind of person he/she is. The point remains that when you marry someone it's as the priest VERY CLEARLY says: you do for the better and for the WORSE, in health and in sickness etc. in OTHER WORDS you are WARNED and at that point you choose to go on with marriage thus you take your responsibilities. Again this is obviously not valid for forced marriages, I'm just saying, before someone jumps at my throat about this specific case. If you are forced into marriage, you have no choice and therefore no responsibility, no one can tell you to wise up and be more careful next time cause you were forced. So my opinion applies in freely consenting marriages.
I should probably add that the only ones who have zero responsibility since they have zero choice in marriage are the children born out of that union. OBVIOUSLY!
Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 09 April 2018Hiku said:
"Wanting" to have sex can be VERY different from forcibly having sex with someone. Which can be very violent at times as well. Just because you're married to someone does not give them the right to abuse you. |
And I totally agree with you, they do not have that right, if anything I'm amazed that there was a time when laws did not consider rape within marriage.
The point I was making in that post that you quote is very clear: If you don't want to have sex with someone or think you could not want to some time in the future, why marry that person? Marriage is supposed to be for life, if you don't feel like making a life commitment don't marry, just live with that person outside marriage and see how things go. I don't defend rape, I don't condone rapists, I'm ONLY saying it's weird to marry someone then having a problem with the very basic act that is totally specific to marriage: sex.
JUST AS it seems weird someone might want to rape a spouse, why would you want to rape a person you can totally legally have sex with? I'm just pointing the lack of logic from the rapist's mind.
Perhaps I'm too logical for my own good. I don't ever plan to rape anyone but if I had to rape someone, raping my wife is literally the last thing in the entire universe I'd ever think about doing. So the only conclusion I can come to is that rapists that rape their spouse are fundamental morons. It's dumb enough to rape a stranger and go to jail for it but raping someone you can actually have sex with and in a normal marriage, she will agree most of the time, becoming an asshole and going to jail for something you can do most of the time anyway makes no sense to me.
CrazyGamer2017 said:
The point I was making in that post that you quote is very clear: If you don't want to have sex with someone or think you could not want to some time in the future, why marry that person? Marriage is supposed to be for life, if you don't feel like making a life commitment don't marry, just live with that person outside marriage and see how things go. I don't defend rape, I don't condone rapists, I'm ONLY saying it's weird to marry someone then having a problem with the very basic act that is totally specific to marriage: sex. |
This is saying that if you marry someone that means that there should NEVER be a point in that marriage where you do not want to have sex with that person. I want you to know that this does not make sense and this type of mentality can and does lead to marital rape. There are any number of reasons a person might not want to have sex with their spouse/significant other: they're sick, they're tired, they're upset, or they just don't feel like it at that moment. Right this moment, I don't feel like having sex with my boyfriend because I'm stressed with work and I just want to deal with that right now. Does that mean I don't want to have sex with him later tonight? Of course not! It just means I don't want to have sex with him RIGHT NOW. If my boyfriend proceeds to have sex with me despite this and me saying no, that is rape.