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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dragon Quest XI coming September 4th to PS4 and Steam - Switch 'much later', no 3DS version

Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

Its not that its hard or not, you simply dont remember.I dont write imo for example, simply because I never consider people taking it to that side.

Well, lets agree to disagree then.

it's easy to remember that something you give out is your opinion, as easy as it is to remember a fact taken from a book or piece of objective information. 

 

I'm afraid I cannot.

I just feel like, given that this is a forum about discussing games, when you dont give a source or give a reasoning behind said argument, its obvious to associate it with it being a personal opinion.

I dont know, it just seems so clear to me.But to each its own.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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Nautilus said:

I just feel like, given that this is a forum about discussing games, when you dont give a source or give a reasoning behind said argument, its obvious to associate it with it being a personal opinion.

I dont know, it just seems so clear to me.But to each its own.

You'll find that on the net, not everyone backs up their say when they call it "fact" with follow up information. Take youtube for example, in every one of those "PC vs PS4 vs Xbox" comparison videos, the usual comments made out are "X system beats the others" time and time again, and it stems from all 3 sides. You get people like that everywhere, and not just on Youtube.

It may seem clear to you, but it wasn't to me. What makes it clear is sating "imo", which is why that word even exists, otherwise if it didn't and we all thought within the same wavelength, "imo" wouldn't exist as a word.

I'm just going to put this out now while we're here. We've been going at this over one comment, but only because I pointed it out was it followed up on.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

I just feel like, given that this is a forum about discussing games, when you dont give a source or give a reasoning behind said argument, its obvious to associate it with it being a personal opinion.

I dont know, it just seems so clear to me.But to each its own.

You'll find that on the net, not everyone backs up their say when they call it "fact" with follow up information. Take youtube for example, in every one of those "PC vs PS4 vs Xbox" comparison videos, the usual comments made out are "X system beats the others" time and time again, and it stems from all 3 sides. You get people like that everywhere, and not just on Youtube.

It may seem clear to you, but it wasn't to me. What makes it clear is sating "imo", which is why that word even exists, otherwise if it didn't and we all thought within the same wavelength, "imo" wouldn't exist as a word.

I'm just going to put this out now while we're here. We've been going at this over one comment, but only because I pointed it out was it followed up on.

Then lets agree to disagree.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:

For your first paragraph, lets just not go there.As seen in this thread, there are many that are interested in all versions.So saying that one version is more desirable than the other will lead nowhere.Everyone can claim she/he is a bigger DQ fan, and that will just lead to insults.But I will admit that I have zero interest in the 3DS version, and thus I am biased against it.But deep down, its also a shame that its not comming west.The best case scenario would be for the 3DS version to be bundled with the Switch version, but thats a pipe dream.

As for defending SE, I think they are at fault here.First of all, they shouldnt have announced the game so early for the Switch then.That just elevates expectations that will take a long time to be met, and will just lead to this.But thats an overall problem with Square, not this game in particular.Second, this version has been, at least in theory, in development for at least 2 years.Depending on the engine, like you mentioned, it may be more difficult to port over a game.But it dosent take in any way more than three years, at least when you are trying to do a good job at it.Thats the time you take to make a game from scratch.If thats the reason, then whoever is working on that port is simply incopetent.If Square announced the version but took its sweet time to start working on it, then Square was at fault for having no foresight.Even worse, if they are making yet another version of the same game, they are even dumber.First of all, because its simply easier to port overn what you already have(either the 3DS or the PS4 version), which is what everyone wants.Second of all, because as far as I know, few people really like the chibi artstyle and honestly, when compared to the other version that have been made, it would be a huge dissapointment.(yes yes, its my opinion and all, but I dont think I would be alone on this one)

Given the time they had, I cant see how its not incopetence of some form on Square side.You could maybe say that they want people to double dip, but that wouldnt negate my arguments, and at this point I think its simply stupid for them to do so.Switch hasnt got a big enough userbase to make that number that significant, nor is the fanbase in the west that big.And the place where the double dippers would be in a bigger concentration would be in Japan, where both the PS4 and 3DS version have already launched.And after two years, they dont have a measly single footage of the Switch version ready?Not even in japanese?Im not asking for any miracles, as far as I can see.

Technically, It's a 3DS and PS4 game first. So if you're a fan of DQ then it's like big FU for those people. Especially for those who only have 3DS and waiting for the game. For me at some point I would want to try the 3DS version and the only option is to import but region locked sucks. 

Perhaps they are at fault that's why i said it was announced prematurely but I won't call that incompetence and I won't even call that disservice to the fans. I am not an expert in terms of the technical stuff but one thing I know is, it is not simple as 1 2 3 Switch. Maybe they didn't expect that it will not run well as they hope so because of the limitation of NSW.
Maybe because of this unforeseen problem they focus more in localizing DQXI for PS4 and PC since both are closer in terms of architecture and they don't want DQXI to lose relevance in the west due to long dev. time for Switch version.  Take note this is not a simple localization when they are adding multiple languages and improvements. 

As for the chibi part I will apologize for the confusion. I actually thinking about Nino kuni style when I wrote that. With that in mind. I think IMO it's best if they do a separate ver. and your last paragraph is proving my point that it is not dumb to do a different version of the game especially with NSW ver. will take awhile. The assets are there. They can use that to minimize the dev. cost and it will not be a straight up port and can utilize the strength of NSW. They already did it with 3DS and PS4. What stopping them from doing it with NSW especially that they are having a hard time porting the PS4 ver.?

As for the bold I just remembered something and I find it funny. 
Damn if you do, damned if you don't.



Nautilus said:

Then lets agree to disagree.

Like I said before, I cannot.

I do not agree to disagree, because in this instance, you are trying to imply the notion that he implied "imo", when he in fact did not. Then we went on with how it's exception and not the norm, yet millions if not billions of people do this almost every day (with and without realizing it).

This has gone on this long only because you want to argue that he heavily implied "imo", while also arguing that it's fine not to include it.

 

This will only go on for as long as you want it to. And it's already gotten past the stage of being trivial and pointless.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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Chazore said:
Nautilus said:

Then lets agree to disagree.

Like I said before, I cannot.

I do not agree to disagree, because in this instance, you are trying to imply the notion that he implied "imo", when he in fact did not. Then we went on with how it's exception and not the norm, yet millions if not billions of people do this almost every day (with and without realizing it).

This has gone on this long only because you want to argue that he heavily implied "imo", while also arguing that it's fine not to include it.

 

This will only go on for as long as you want it to. And it's already gotten past the stage of being trivial and pointless.

Hah, you were right about what Ryuu said.This seems like a conversation with Aeolus, in which you could go on and on until the end of days arguing about a point, and never reach a concensus because the one you are arguing with dosent like to lose.*sigh*

Look, I just pointed out your original post because it felt like it was an unnecessary remark.It had no malice nor nothing of the sort in it, I just wanted to point that out.And at first, I felt like it was a nice discussion, arguing anout wether putting imo was necessary or not.But it became clear with this post that you are not interested in having a nice conversation, and more like imposing your opinion on me.I even tried to overlook some of the nonsense that you wrote about parts of what I said being SJW, in which has no sense at all, but it seems that if we continue this conversation, it will only develop into, for a lack of a better word, shitshow just because a single guy was dissapointed that its console of choice isnt being properly supported by that company and he, with the darkest part of his soul, left out a imo out of that little setence in order to curse the other versions.

 

So lets agree to disagree, even if you dont want to.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

What’s the difference between UE4.13 and 4.15? I find it weird that despite having a more updated version, the switch version would supposedly be harder to port with DQXI being under the 4.13 version of UE. It’s like saying I can’t run a program that runs through Windows 8 because I have a Windows 10.



Hiku said:
Nautilus said:

I just feel like, given that this is a forum about discussing games, when you dont give a source or give a reasoning behind said argument, its obvious to associate it with it being a personal opinion.

I dont know, it just seems so clear to me.But to each its own.

But that's not considering misconceptions.
As a reader, there is some times no way to distinguish the difference.
For example:

"Portability makes this the best version."

It's not immediately clear if the comment comes from someone who is unaware of any differences between the versions, aside from the option of playing it in portable mode. Someone may genuinely think that the game runs exactly the same on both PS4 and Switch in docked mode.

Now for people on this forum in regards to Switch, I would heavily presume that they are aware of many differences, such as different controller preferences, and performance differences.
But in many cases, the reasoning behind such comments becomes much less clear.

"*Insert weapon name* is bad in *insert game*"

Was that comment based on the posters own opinion? Or on statistical research that revealed that there are other weapons obtainable at the same time for the same cost, but with higher stats?
What if it turns out that I know that this weapon is special in that it's the only weapon in the game where you don't block using the normal block button, but have to use another button instead? Could it be that the person posting that comment missed that?
Because it would be clear if they had said "This weapon is bad because you can't block with it."

So it's not a good habit to have, imo, to write opinions in a way that presents them as fact.
Even if the reader correctly presumes that it is an opinion (although it's always preferable to know for sure) it's also unclear why you think so, if you leave out your reasoning.
Maybe your reasoning is based on a lack of information? It's hard to know if you omit the reasoning of your opinion from the comment.

The point is that the context of the thread allows such, lets say observations.Given that the OP itself states that the Switch version dosent even have footage of the game, let alone what it will end up becoming, statements like the "Switch being the best version" is obviously an opinion, simply by a matter of deduction by these facts, given that it cant be the best version without knowing how the game will turn up.Its like when you ask your friend whats their favorite band and they simüply answer "Metallica".Will you be mad with him because he didnt say "In my opinion is Metallica"?Of course not, because it is already understood, given the context of the situation, that any answer will fall under the opinion umbrella.Thats what Im trying to say.If the topic of the thread was different, then it would be a different story, but thats not the case.

Look, Im not saying you or Chaz is wrong, and putting a imo could very well make for a more complete sentence.But what Im trying to say is that its not necessary.You may think Im lazy, but writing these posts take time.For instance, this one Im writing right now took 10 minutes give or take.And its not like I dont have anything else to do.So in order to cut corners, to make the reply faster without destrying the message, you make it simpler, believeing that the context of the thread and/or the topic will fill in the voids such as the imo parts.It may sound silly, but not needing to remember and add those small bits could and can save time, even if only seconds.And not to sound like a jerk, but I value each second that I can get.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

NoCtiS_NoX said:
Nautilus said:

For your first paragraph, lets just not go there.As seen in this thread, there are many that are interested in all versions.So saying that one version is more desirable than the other will lead nowhere.Everyone can claim she/he is a bigger DQ fan, and that will just lead to insults.But I will admit that I have zero interest in the 3DS version, and thus I am biased against it.But deep down, its also a shame that its not comming west.The best case scenario would be for the 3DS version to be bundled with the Switch version, but thats a pipe dream.

As for defending SE, I think they are at fault here.First of all, they shouldnt have announced the game so early for the Switch then.That just elevates expectations that will take a long time to be met, and will just lead to this.But thats an overall problem with Square, not this game in particular.Second, this version has been, at least in theory, in development for at least 2 years.Depending on the engine, like you mentioned, it may be more difficult to port over a game.But it dosent take in any way more than three years, at least when you are trying to do a good job at it.Thats the time you take to make a game from scratch.If thats the reason, then whoever is working on that port is simply incopetent.If Square announced the version but took its sweet time to start working on it, then Square was at fault for having no foresight.Even worse, if they are making yet another version of the same game, they are even dumber.First of all, because its simply easier to port overn what you already have(either the 3DS or the PS4 version), which is what everyone wants.Second of all, because as far as I know, few people really like the chibi artstyle and honestly, when compared to the other version that have been made, it would be a huge dissapointment.(yes yes, its my opinion and all, but I dont think I would be alone on this one)

Given the time they had, I cant see how its not incopetence of some form on Square side.You could maybe say that they want people to double dip, but that wouldnt negate my arguments, and at this point I think its simply stupid for them to do so.Switch hasnt got a big enough userbase to make that number that significant, nor is the fanbase in the west that big.And the place where the double dippers would be in a bigger concentration would be in Japan, where both the PS4 and 3DS version have already launched.And after two years, they dont have a measly single footage of the Switch version ready?Not even in japanese?Im not asking for any miracles, as far as I can see.

Technically, It's a 3DS and PS4 game first. So if you're a fan of DQ then it's like big FU for those people. Especially for those who only have 3DS and waiting for the game. For me at some point I would want to try the 3DS version and the only option is to import but region locked sucks. 

Perhaps they are at fault that's why i said it was announced prematurely but I won't call that incompetence and I won't even call that disservice to the fans. I am not an expert in terms of the technical stuff but one thing I know is, it is not simple as 1 2 3 Switch. Maybe they didn't expect that it will not run well as they hope so because of the limitation of NSW.
Maybe because of this unforeseen problem they focus more in localizing DQXI for PS4 and PC since both are closer in terms of architecture and they don't want DQXI to lose relevance in the west due to long dev. time for Switch version.  Take note this is not a simple localization when they are adding multiple languages and improvements. 

As for the chibi part I will apologize for the confusion. I actually thinking about Nino kuni style when I wrote that. With that in mind. I think IMO it's best if they do a separate ver. and your last paragraph is proving my point that it is not dumb to do a different version of the game especially with NSW ver. will take awhile. The assets are there. They can use that to minimize the dev. cost and it will not be a straight up port and can utilize the strength of NSW. They already did it with 3DS and PS4. What stopping them from doing it with NSW especially that they are having a hard time porting the PS4 ver.?

As for the bold I just remembered something and I find it funny. 
Damn if you do, damned if you don't.

Thats the crux of the problem to be quite honest.I still think that those japanese companies that have good relations with Nintendo "sinned" in not jumping in early on the Switch, or at least gave it an honest try, even though Square kind of did with Octopath and some somewhat decent port of the DQ musou games.But if you had to choose betwenn the two evils of not announcing anything until its ready, or announcing it but having barely anything put together, the first one should always have the preference.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:

Hah, you were right about what Ryuu said.This seems like a conversation with Aeolus, in which you could go on and on until the end of days arguing about a point, and never reach a concensus because the one you are arguing with dosent like to lose.*sigh*

Look, I just pointed out your original post because it felt like it was an unnecessary remark.It had no malice nor nothing of the sort in it, I just wanted to point that out.And at first, I felt like it was a nice discussion, arguing anout wether putting imo was necessary or not.But it became clear with this post that you are not interested in having a nice conversation, and more like imposing your opinion on me.I even tried to overlook some of the nonsense that you wrote about parts of what I said being SJW, in which has no sense at all, but it seems that if we continue this conversation, it will only develop into, for a lack of a better word, shitshow just because a single guy was dissapointed that its console of choice isnt being properly supported by that company and he, with the darkest part of his soul, left out a imo out of that little setence in order to curse the other versions.

 

So lets agree to disagree, even if you dont want to.

Well that's the thing. I'm not the one trying to win. I merely pointed out to the other user "in your opinion" and called it a day, but you stepped in and we ended up dragging this out. Eventually to a point where an agree to disagree was forced.

The reason I disagree to that, is that I would redact what I had previously said, but I do not. I pointed out that there were cases of it happening all over the net and this site being no different. Because I've seen it happening on here, I cannot label it as the exception.

It wasn't even a remark as you put it. It was merely me pointing out "in your opinion", which was the main part I was trying to convey. 

@bolded; No, I wasn't really up for dragging something as simple as forgetting to mention "imo" out as long as this. I didn't feel like the "harassment" comment was necessary, so I naturally decided to take it down the road it was heading toward. I mentioned the SJW part because believe it or not (rule, norm or anything else), thaty group like to act like anything towards them is a form of harassment, which was why I saw it as such to mention SJW. 

Mmn, that last part is telling me that because you didn't get that nice discussion, you now want to turn it into something else (I can definitely feel it in that last part).

 

Like I said before. I'm not going to agree to disagree, we can just disagree and be done with it, but I'm not backing down from calling the other user on not using "imo" (hell we have another user pulling the same thing in regards to their system getting JRPG's).



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"