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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Angry Joe's Sea of Thieves Angry Review

thismeintiel said:
Azzanation said:

There is nothing wrong with the quality of Sea Of Thieves. The game didnt have to lie to its customers to sell well. What you and many in here hate to admit is that SOTs just didnt turn out to be the game you wanted from Rare. 

Sony and Hello Games rode the hype generated by Shaun Murrey that made them alittle fortune at the cost of delivering a completely different experience to what was promise. He said the game had MP,  Sony didnt brother to correct it and all they did was allow the lies to happen. How could you let the game release on your own platform knowing that this game is nothing like what they claimed? I guess it explains why Black Tiger sits in the PSN store to.

Those that played the SOTs beta knew what the game was about. They added alittle bit more in the full game which i agree lacks content but the game is what it is. NMS even today is nothing like they promised.

So, MS and Rare exaggerate how rich the world will be, filled with awesome quests and many fantastical creatures, but has the same tutorial quests over and over filled with skeletons, which has many let down/pissed, and that's OK. No criticism of quality control for a 200 man, 4 year developed game. But, HG, not Sony, exaggerate their content, and it's Sony's fault. Got it. Lol. The bias pours through the screen.

BTW, that last line is a lie. After the 3 major updates, yes, it is like they promised. Probably even more so after the NEXT update. Still, they deserve criticism for how they handled the PR before launch. Just like MS and Rare deserve criticism for hyping this game to no end as their most ambitious game that would redefine a genre. Filled with almost endless customization and fantastical quests and creatures. 

MS do what any other company would do for there first party games, Advertising there games, much like Sony do with theres. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean lies were made. SOTs had 3 to 4 Betas before launch, how many did NMS have? Sure the game lacks content no one is denying that however it is ambition and it has redefined a genre, its the only game of its type at its quality. It was a huge risk creating SOTs. Hence why its is an ambitions project.

You haven't even played SOTs so your point is nothing more than you reading its worse review and posting the negative sides. Go read the positive reviews and have an equal ground.

Have you played NMS? Have they turned it into that huge Sci-Fi MMO online game they promised or is it still a survival crafting game in space? (#Spacecraft)

I played NMS 3 weeks ago, I gave the game another chance and not much has changed, its still the same game I played at launch with more content. Content cannot fix the style of game it is. That's just my personal opinion and experience with the game. You have zero experience with SOTs and I doubt you have played NMS as well. Please correct me on that if you have.



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KLAMarine said:

Not only did they have a chance to dial the hype back, they gave NMS devs a big screen to promote the game on not once but twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JakCSDHPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGy8HIYBwV0

Hell, even Yoshida himself had a seat with Murray at one point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sb-clg3Tlw

 

Seems pretty active promotion to me. I believe it was Sony who approached Hello Games from the start!

Knowing you thismeintiel, with all due respect, I suspect you would have been dancing and singing condemnation of this sort of behavior if it were anyone other than Sony.

When I say Sony wasn't active in the promotion, I mean Sony took a laissez-faire approach rather than taking charge of Hello Game's PR. If you think Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote NMS is an 'active' promotion, then sure, though now we would be going into semantics. Watching through the PSX video, you see that is mostly a Q&A. Yoshida is asking Sean Murray multiple questions and he answers them while further explaining about NMS. Again, if you want to interpret Yoshida's role as 'active', then okay. However, I would then ask you who was more 'active' in promoting NMS in the PSX video?

The situation is also different from SOT's since Hello Games is a 3rd party developer whereas Rare is a 1st party studio. Because Rare is owned by Microsoft, whenever Rare is promoting SOT, Microsoft is also effectively promoting SOT.

KLAMarine said: 

Knowing you thismeintiel, with all due respect, I suspect you would have been dancing and singing condemnation of this sort of behavior if it were anyone other than Sony.

You should drop the ad hominem. Just address his points, not his character.



thismeintiel said:
KLAMarine said:

Not only did they have a chance to dial the hype back, they gave NMS devs a big screen to promote the game on not once but twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JakCSDHPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGy8HIYBwV0

Hell, even Yoshida himself had a seat with Murray at one point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sb-clg3Tlw

 

Seems pretty active promotion to me. I believe it was Sony who approached Hello Games from the start!

But promoting the product of a little team of 16 or so is not the same as promoting a Ubi Soft game or Rockstar game. Surely Sony knows a thing or two about game development and what a dozen-man team is capable of? They've only been in the business for some 20 years. According to IGN, Yoshida himself acknowledged:

"It wasn't a great PR strategy, because he didn't have a PR person helping him, and in the end he is an indie developer."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/09/16/shuhei-yoshida-no-mans-sky-didnt-have-a-great-pr-strategy

Maybe 20 years wasn't enough time for Sony to learn about game development? They sure know how to put on a show regardless, distribute the game, put the game on the PSN storefront and sell the game at $60 a pop.

Of course, I think just about anything is forgivable if Sony were ready to issue refunds with the greatest of ease. Not so it seemed, Sony was pretty good with the lip service at the time:

https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2015/articles/1/8/5/6/7/8/1/sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky-147402330183.png

tl;dr: "Sony won't issue a refund for a faulty product, go complain to Hello Games (who may or may not have been pulling a vanishing act at the time)".

#4theplayer

Knowing you thismeintiel, with all due respect, I suspect you would have been dancing and singing condemnation of this sort of behavior if it were anyone other than Sony.

Good thing you don't know me, huh?

Not personally, no. I'm familiar with some of your posting habits however.

thismeintiel said:

And no, there is no difference. You can blame Sony all you want for trying to help a small dev team

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

thismeintiel said:

while trying to deflect blame away from a 1st party dev and their parent company lying about the scope of their game, even though that team is more than 12x the size of HG and had 4 years to deliver something, but it's not going to work.

I deflected blame away from a 1st party dev? When?

thismeintiel said:

There's a reason SoT is getting worse reviews than even NMS. 

# nomanssea

...What reason would this be? I honestly don't know, I almost never read reviews.

Aura7541 said:
KLAMarine said:

Not only did they have a chance to dial the hype back, they gave NMS devs a big screen to promote the game on not once but twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JakCSDHPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGy8HIYBwV0

Hell, even Yoshida himself had a seat with Murray at one point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sb-clg3Tlw

 

Seems pretty active promotion to me. I believe it was Sony who approached Hello Games from the start!

Knowing you thismeintiel, with all due respect, I suspect you would have been dancing and singing condemnation of this sort of behavior if it were anyone other than Sony.

When I say Sony wasn't active in the promotion, I mean Sony took a laissez-faire approach rather than taking charge of Hello Game's PR. If you think Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote NMS is an 'active' promotion, then sure, though now we would be going into semantics. Watching through the PSX video, you see that is mostly a Q&A. Yoshida is asking Sean Murray multiple questions and he answers them while further explaining about NMS. Again, if you want to interpret Yoshida's role as 'active', then okay. However, I would then ask you who was more 'active' in promoting NMS in the PSX video?

How was it not an active promotion? Did Sean force himself onto Sony's platform? Was Shuhei Yoshida ambushed into doing that demo with Sean? I highly doubt any of these things occurred without Sony's permission. If so, I must applaud Sean. He's a clever man.

Aura7541 said:

The situation is also different from SOT's since Hello Games is a 3rd party developer whereas Rare is a 1st party studio. Because Rare is owned by Microsoft, whenever Rare is promoting SOT, Microsoft is also effectively promoting SOT.

Doesn't seem all that different from Sony hosting NMS promotional content on their media outlets:

First or third party, promotion is promotion.

Aura7541 said:
KLAMarine said: 

Knowing you thismeintiel, with all due respect, I suspect you would have been dancing and singing condemnation of this sort of behavior if it were anyone other than Sony.

You should drop the ad hominem. Just address his points, not his character.

My sincerest apologies, perhaps you are correct that it was unfair of me to post that. I meant no offense, I just wanted to call to attention some of thismeintiel's apparent biases.

thismeintiel said:

My apologies thismeintiel if you took offense.



Aura7541 said:

 

When I say Sony wasn't active in the promotion, I mean Sony took a laissez-faire approach rather than taking charge of Hello Game's PR. If you think Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote NMS is an 'active' promotion, then sure, though now we would be going into semantics. Watching through the PSX video, you see that is mostly a Q&A. Yoshida is asking Sean Murray multiple questions and he answers them while further explaining about NMS. Again, if you want to interpret Yoshida's role as 'active', then okay. However, I would then ask you who was more 'active' in promoting NMS in the PSX video?

The situation is also different from SOT's since Hello Games is a 3rd party developer whereas Rare is a 1st party studio. Because Rare is owned by Microsoft, whenever Rare is promoting SOT, Microsoft is also effectively promoting SOT.

 

 

I understand what you are trying to say, however this is a timed exclusive used to promote PlayStation. If this was a console multiplatform game from the start I would totally agree with you on that however it was not. This also affects Sony's image as well. They promoted a game for the PS audience and many went in expecting something completely different. That leaves a bad taste in gamers mouths. Sure it hasn't affected the PS4 brand in terms of sales however its just not a moral thing to do for your customers. Sony also needs to take responsibly for NMS since they were promoting the game heavily and it was a console exclusive for 2 years under the PlayStation Banner.

MS and Rare are taking the blame for SOTs lack of content so the same should be said for NMS and its marketing because it was the marketing that ruin the game, not the game itself. NMS isn't a bad game for what its trying to do if it was marketed right from the start, its issue was its miss marketing and Sony were the ones publishing the game. 

It could have been easily fixed if Sony just stepped in and said "Shaun, are you actually going to provide these things for this game? If not lets change the tactics" instead they sat in there high chair allowing Hello Games to keep over promising. I wouldn't be solely blaming a small dev team for there inexperience, I would blame the entire team behind the game. Sony should have known better as well as this was also promoting there own hardware.

Imagine if I was buying a car which advertised all these features but when I brought the car is was lacking what was advertised.. Would I just blame the car model and engineers for the lack of features? Or would I take it up to the brand and blame them for misleading there cars? I can tell you ill be going to the brand which this car falls under and argue my complaints. Sony in this case is the main brand of this game since they allowed it under there wings. Every company has Quality Control, this game definitely slipped under the radar. Maybe the hype was too big to control? Who knows, in the end that's not the customers problem.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 31 March 2018

One last thing before you go, thismeintiel. You accuse me of trying to deflect:

thismeintiel said:

You can blame Sony all you want for trying to help a small dev team while trying to deflect blame away from a 1st party dev and their parent company lying about the scope of their game, even though that team is more than 12x the size of HG and had 4 years to deliver something, but it's not going to work.

All the while doing some deflection of your own:

thismeintiel said:

Apparently SoT isn't exactly what people expected, hence the poor online/user reviews.  And that actually does fall on Rare and MS, for overhyping a bare bones game, whereas NMS is on HG, not Sony.

This is not the first time you've done something like this, may I remind you?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8395900

 

That said, I still invite you to point out where I deflected "blame away from a 1st party dev and their parent company lying about the scope of their game".



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KLAMarine said:
Aura7541 said:

When I say Sony wasn't active in the promotion, I mean Sony took a laissez-faire approach rather than taking charge of Hello Game's PR. If you think Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote NMS is an 'active' promotion, then sure, though now we would be going into semantics. Watching through the PSX video, you see that is mostly a Q&A. Yoshida is asking Sean Murray multiple questions and he answers them while further explaining about NMS. Again, if you want to interpret Yoshida's role as 'active', then okay. However, I would then ask you who was more 'active' in promoting NMS in the PSX video?

How was it not an active promotion? Did Sean force himself onto Sony's platform? Was Shuhei Yoshida ambushed into doing that demo with Sean? I highly doubt any of these things occurred without Sony's permission. If so, I must applaud Sean. He's a clever man.

Aura7541 said:

The situation is also different from SOT's since Hello Games is a 3rd party developer whereas Rare is a 1st party studio. Because Rare is owned by Microsoft, whenever Rare is promoting SOT, Microsoft is also effectively promoting SOT.

Doesn't seem all that different from Sony hosting NMS promotional content on their media outlets:

First or third party, promotion is promotion.

Again, we're going more into the semantics of what 'active' means. If you consider Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote their game, then be my guest. I already conceded your point, in fact. However, if we are to go that route, we need to consider the spectrum of what constitutes 'very active' and 'not very active'. I will ask you again because you did not answer my question, in the PSX video, who was more 'active' in promoting NMS? Sean Murray or Shuhei Yoshida?

Promotion is promotion, but not all promotions are created equal. Considering that Microsoft owns and therefore, is also in charge of Rare's inner workings, it would not be unreasonable to think that Rare's PR is filtered through the higher echelons of Microsoft before it goes out into public. In contrast, since Hello Games is 3rd party, unless stated otherwise, the studio does not have to pass their PR through a 'Sony filter'. If you interpret that as not "seem[ing] all that different", then sure. However, to quote Mark Twain, "the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug". The situations are similar, but they are not identical.



Aura7541 said:
KLAMarine said:

How was it not an active promotion? Did Sean force himself onto Sony's platform? Was Shuhei Yoshida ambushed into doing that demo with Sean? I highly doubt any of these things occurred without Sony's permission. If so, I must applaud Sean. He's a clever man.

Doesn't seem all that different from Sony hosting NMS promotional content on their media outlets:

First or third party, promotion is promotion.

Again, we're going more into the semantics of what 'active' means. If you consider Sony giving Hello Games a platform to promote their game, then be my guest. I already conceded your point, in fact. However, if we are to go that route, we need to consider the spectrum of what constitutes 'very active' and 'not very active'. I will ask you again because you did not answer my question, in the PSX video, who was more 'active' in promoting NMS? Sean Murray or Shuhei Yoshida?

I'll take your word for it and agree that Sean was more active. This does not change the fact that Yoshida was there and agreed to do this as well as put in a nice word in for NMS at the end. Also doesn't change the fact that some party at PlayStation edited and uploaded the video to PlayStation's YT channel.

Aura7541 said:

Promotion is promotion, but not all promotions are created equal. Considering that Microsoft owns and therefore, is also in charge of Rare's inner workings, it would not be unreasonable to think that Rare's PR is filtered through the higher echelons of Microsoft before it goes out into public. In contrast, since Hello Games is 3rd party, unless stated otherwise, the studio does not have to pass their PR through a 'Sony filter'.

Was there no 'Sony filter' for whatever is shown up on PlayStation's E3 presentations? If there was, it was poor. If there wasn't, it was irresponsible.

Either way, Sony's consent was surely required.

Aura7541 said:

If you interpret that as not "seem[ing] all that different", then sure. However, to quote Mark Twain, "the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug". The situations are similar, but they are not identical.

I'm going to give Sony the benefit of the doubt: perhaps they just got careless and allowed a faulty product to go all-out and at full-blast at their E3 conferences and even put Yoshida's face alongside the product. Perhaps their QA fell asleep as they played a couple rounds of NMS before allowing Sean such extensive access to PlayStation resources.

 

All that said, even as shit was hitting the fan, PlayStation support was hesitant to issue any refunds:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-16-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky

 

I'd understand a hesitance to issue refunds for digital purchases but one would think an exception could have been made for this ONE case. Apparently not.

Sony was sticking with this product through thick or thin, game-crashing bugs and all and don't bother them about it. Go bug Sean Houdini for a transaction that occurred with PlayStation's combined media resources' blessings and through Sony's own network .

 

You wanna call this 'active' or 'passive' or 'string cheese' is ultimately irrelevant: Sony banked on this scandal with their full consent and customers got screwed.



KLAMarine said:

I'll take your word for it and agree that Sean was more active. This does not change the fact that Yoshida was there and agreed to do this as well as put in a nice word in for NMS at the end. Also doesn't change the fact that some party at PlayStation edited and uploaded the video to PlayStation's YT channel.

Was there no 'Sony filter' for whatever is shown up on PlayStation's E3 presentations? If there was, it was poor. If there wasn't, it was irresponsible.

Either way, Sony's consent was surely required.

I'm going to give Sony the benefit of the doubt: perhaps they just got careless and allowed a faulty product to go all-out and at full-blast at their E3 conferences and even put Yoshida's face alongside the product. Perhaps their QA fell asleep as they played a couple rounds of NMS before allowing Sean such extensive access to PlayStation resources.

You can say that there is a 'Sony filter'. However, I'll quote a part of my past comment: "we need to consider the spectrum of what constitutes 'very active' and 'not very active'". The strictness of the filter was likely less than that of Microsoft due to the fact that Hello Games is a 3rd party developer and therefore, not manned by Sony. In contrast, Microsoft has full autonomy over Rare. There are filters in both cases, but the permeability of the filters are likely not identical.

KLAMarine said: 

All that said, even as shit was hitting the fan, PlayStation support was hesitant to issue any refunds:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-16-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky

 

I'd understand a hesitance to issue refunds for digital purchases but one would think an exception could have been made for this ONE case. Apparently not.

Sony was sticking with this product through thick or thin, game-crashing bugs and all and don't bother them about it. Go bug Sean Houdini for a transaction that occurred with PlayStation's combined media resources' blessings and through Sony's own network .

 

You wanna call this 'active' or 'passive' or 'string cheese' is ultimately irrelevant: Sony banked on this scandal with their full consent and customers got screwed.

The problems with Sony's (really bad) refund policies extend beyond NMS, however. IIRC, there is a thread on either NeoGAF or ResetERA that deeply criticized this issue. The shitstorm surrounding NMS incidentally emphasized and brought more attention to the problem (and yes, I also disagree with Sony's decision to not issue refunds).

Other than that, I do agree with you, especially on the last sentence as I did say that Sony was not blameless. The lack of action to pull back Hello Games was an outright bad decision and as Troy Leavitt said, Sony shouldn't have just left Hello Games out there to die when the backlash began.



Aura7541 said:
KLAMarine said:

I'll take your word for it and agree that Sean was more active. This does not change the fact that Yoshida was there and agreed to do this as well as put in a nice word in for NMS at the end. Also doesn't change the fact that some party at PlayStation edited and uploaded the video to PlayStation's YT channel.

Was there no 'Sony filter' for whatever is shown up on PlayStation's E3 presentations? If there was, it was poor. If there wasn't, it was irresponsible.

Either way, Sony's consent was surely required.

I'm going to give Sony the benefit of the doubt: perhaps they just got careless and allowed a faulty product to go all-out and at full-blast at their E3 conferences and even put Yoshida's face alongside the product. Perhaps their QA fell asleep as they played a couple rounds of NMS before allowing Sean such extensive access to PlayStation resources.

You can say that there is a 'Sony filter'. However, I'll quote a part of my past comment: "we need to consider the spectrum of what constitutes 'very active' and 'not very active'". The strictness of the filter was likely less than that of Microsoft due to the fact that Hello Games is a 3rd party developer and therefore, not manned by Sony. In contrast, Microsoft has full autonomy over Rare. There are filters in both cases, but the permeability of the filters are likely not identical.

Perhaps Sony should have had a greater filter considering the platform they were giving NMS but maybe putting on a good show took priority over ensuring a quality product?

Aura7541 said:
KLAMarine said: 

All that said, even as shit was hitting the fan, PlayStation support was hesitant to issue any refunds:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-16-sonys-shuhei-yoshida-on-no-mans-sky

 

I'd understand a hesitance to issue refunds for digital purchases but one would think an exception could have been made for this ONE case. Apparently not.

Sony was sticking with this product through thick or thin, game-crashing bugs and all and don't bother them about it. Go bug Sean Houdini for a transaction that occurred with PlayStation's combined media resources' blessings and through Sony's own network .

 

You wanna call this 'active' or 'passive' or 'string cheese' is ultimately irrelevant: Sony banked on this scandal with their full consent and customers got screwed.

The problems with Sony's (really bad) refund policies extend beyond NMS, however. IIRC, there is a thread on either NeoGAF or ResetERA that deeply criticized this issue. The shitstorm surrounding NMS incidentally emphasized and brought more attention to the problem (and yes, I also disagree with Sony's decision to not issue refunds).

Other than that, I do agree with you, especially on the last sentence as I did say that Sony was not blameless. The lack of action to pull back Hello Games was an outright bad decision and as Troy Leavitt said, Sony shouldn't have just left Hello Games out there to die when the backlash began.

I'll have to take your word for it on Sony and refunds. I don't regularly do business with PSN...