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Forums - Movies & TV - Black Panther Currently @ $700M+ DBO, $1.34B+ WW

contestgamer said:
Insidb said:

How are you not getting this!?

87% of the population is NOT BLACK, which means that 63% of the NOT BLACK BP audience was an UNDERREPRESENTATION of other races!

E) This movie was set in Africa and the same or higher inverse repressentation.

F) Why are you celebrating the standard!?

G) Are you trolling or ignorant?

E) that should not affect the writers, producers or directors. They werent African, they were African-American - pretty big difference no? Any other race could have worked those positions. And again, higher representation isnt the issue. The issue is that representation was obscenely high with the primary purpose of being a cultural statement.

F) Currently only the "non standard" as you put it can be celebrated. White straight males cannot celebrate those aspect of their identities. Personally I dont care because I'm not even part of a majority group, and I reject identity politics. My problem is one of principle. Either all groups and lasses can celebrate their identities or none should. Clearly you cannot celebrate being a certain class, gender, orientation or race without being a racist, homophone or sexist so equality does not exist.

Also regarding your point about 63% being underrepresented - that's not how it works. What the left has set up is a white vs minority paradigm where a win for any minority group is a win for all minority groups. 

E) The movie is literally about an isolationist African nation who refuses to interact with the outside world, and your gripe is that it was created by African-Americans? Meanwhile, you're perfectly okay with nearly every other movie being created by nearly all-white staffs? Curious stance.

F) Why would you celebrate what is already normal? Do you celebrate every paycheck, but never a raise? Every sunset, but never an eclipse? Every regular season win, but never a championship? If you do, know that you're not human, because mental fatigue is a human reaction. You do know that you can celebrate all identities without being offended by them celebrating their own, right? You do know that dog whistles, like "white power" or "all lives matter" are things, right? You could...just choose to accept people for who they are and live and let live, which most libertarians pretend to espouse.

Regarding the 63%, I'm not sure what part of the math is confusing to you. You just seemed to offer not meaningful clarification and then spout a "colorblind," actually hyper-political talking point.

Last edited by Insidb - on 04 April 2018

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Insidb said:
contestgamer said:

E) that should not affect the writers, producers or directors. They werent African, they were African-American - pretty big difference no? Any other race could have worked those positions. And again, higher representation isnt the issue. The issue is that representation was obscenely high with the primary purpose of being a cultural statement.

F) Currently only the "non standard" as you put it can be celebrated. White straight males cannot celebrate those aspect of their identities. Personally I dont care because I'm not even part of a majority group, and I reject identity politics. My problem is one of principle. Either all groups and lasses can celebrate their identities or none should. Clearly you cannot celebrate being a certain class, gender, orientation or race without being a racist, homophone or sexist so equality does not exist.

Also regarding your point about 63% being underrepresented - that's not how it works. What the left has set up is a white vs minority paradigm where a win for any minority group is a win for all minority groups.

 

Double post.

Last edited by Insidb - on 04 April 2018

Can we stop this racial argument?

Who cares what race is more prominent in the movie? It's a story that circles around black culture. Did you watch Memoirs of a Geisha? There were only a couple of americans in it, the entire cast was asian..

We shouldn't be having this racial argument. It's ridiculous.



TranceformerFX said:

My gripe is that Black Panther doesn't deserve it's critical praise and box office success because it's status was achieved by having an all black cast - that's it.

[...]

The movie is successful because everyone was black, not because it was good movie - which it wasn't. The action choreography was terrible.

You think the movie is overrated? Fair enough. There are plenty of movies that I think have been overrated, and plenty underrated. Beyond that, movies are a bit subjective (for instance, I think Black Panther was a good movie, though not great).

This does not mean that "the movie is successful because everyone was black."

In the first place, not everyone was black. In the second, there have been loads of movies with predominantly black casts over the years. Some have been commercially successful, others not. Some have been critically successful, others not. Some of these movies have been both flops and panned. Black Panther has been both commercially and critically successful -- and apparently you think it doesn't deserve its success -- but that doesn't mean that the reason for that success is "an all black cast" (which is also untrue).

It's true that society is currently going through a bit of a "social justice" phase, which might result in certain grade inflation in cases like these (though take care when looking at something like RT, which is a weird aggregate metric). I don't care for that sort of phenomenon either, but it still has to be understood in terms of a history that includes slavery, institutionalized discrimination, etc. It's understandable, given that context, that people would be excited for certain successes within the black community -- and no, that wouldn't be the same thing if you simply swapped "black" out with "white," because the history and context aren't nearly the same.

Ideally, and all else being equal, would we treat black and white identically in these sorts of ways? I think so. Maybe someday the wounds from past injustices will heal enough to allow for that. But in the interim we must try to understand and deal with the reality that has led to this current situation.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
contestgamer said:

Replace the word black with white in that sentence and see how ridiculous it sounds.

Yeah, that doesn't follow through with logic and reasoning though. Why would white people need to be supported? 

I like you, AngryLittleAlchemist, you seem to be one of the only ones who has any reason in this thread. 

Also, I find it funny that people are going on about 'forced diversity' in a movie that takes place in Africa...especially after the controversy surrounding The Ancient One being played by a white person in Doctor Strange. Marvel isn't some 'SJW' company, but they're doing what they feel is appropriate to each movie. Tilda Swinton did an outstanding job and they chose her over someone of Asian Descent because of how good she ended up being. 

Sometimes you NEED to be a certain race - like in Black Panther - while other times you don't. Tilda Swinton and Idris Elba both show that Marvel isn't afraid of mixing things up a bit when it's appropriate, but Black Panther shows that they sometimes know when race is important to a film. Their billions of dollars in worldwide box office receipts and fairly consistently well-reviewed movies show that they know what they're doing. 

The very idea that someone could have a problem with a film being 'black' despite being set in Africa shows that there's still a lot of racism out there, and it needs to be quashed. 

Disgusting. 



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Alara317 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Yeah, that doesn't follow through with logic and reasoning though. Why would white people need to be supported? 

I like you, AngryLittleAlchemist, you seem to be one of the only ones who has any reason in this thread. 

Also, I find it funny that people are going on about 'forced diversity' in a movie that takes place in Africa...especially after the controversy surrounding The Ancient One being played by a white person in Doctor Strange. Marvel isn't some 'SJW' company, but they're doing what they feel is appropriate to each movie. Tilda Swinton did an outstanding job and they chose her over someone of Asian Descent because of how good she ended up being. 

Sometimes you NEED to be a certain race - like in Black Panther - while other times you don't. Tilda Swinton and Idris Elba both show that Marvel isn't afraid of mixing things up a bit when it's appropriate, but Black Panther shows that they sometimes know when race is important to a film. Their billions of dollars in worldwide box office receipts and fairly consistently well-reviewed movies show that they know what they're doing. 

The very idea that someone could have a problem with a film being 'black' despite being set in Africa shows that there's still a lot of racism out there, and it needs to be quashed. 

Disgusting. 

Sadly, as well said as this was, you will likely have to repeat yourself.



SpokenTruth said:
Alara317 said:

I like you, AngryLittleAlchemist, you seem to be one of the only ones who has any reason in this thread. 

Also, I find it funny that people are going on about 'forced diversity' in a movie that takes place in Africa...especially after the controversy surrounding The Ancient One being played by a white person in Doctor Strange. Marvel isn't some 'SJW' company, but they're doing what they feel is appropriate to each movie. Tilda Swinton did an outstanding job and they chose her over someone of Asian Descent because of how good she ended up being. 

Sometimes you NEED to be a certain race - like in Black Panther - while other times you don't. Tilda Swinton and Idris Elba both show that Marvel isn't afraid of mixing things up a bit when it's appropriate, but Black Panther shows that they sometimes know when race is important to a film. Their billions of dollars in worldwide box office receipts and fairly consistently well-reviewed movies show that they know what they're doing. 

The very idea that someone could have a problem with a film being 'black' despite being set in Africa shows that there's still a lot of racism out there, and it needs to be quashed. 

Disgusting. 

Not only that but it would take an entire movie just to explain why a hidden nation in central Africa is populated by white people.

It's one thing to race swap Nick Fury.  His race was never a relevant factor of his character or story.  But to make T'Challa white runs counter to everything the character was built on.  T'Challa as a colonizer....just no.

A word to the wise: don't use this term; it just lowers you to the level of racists who drop n-bombs.



Insidb said:
So...Rian Johnson is getting fired?

Normally I wouldn’t want to see someone fired, but Last Jedi was a god awful film. I tried to like it after seeing it the first time, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized how trashy and pointless it was, and how it basically took every other film and piece of lore to date, and just said “f*ck it, let’s turn half the movie into an SJW’s wet dream, and have next to nothing that’s relevant to the franchise”. 



0331 Happiness is a belt-fed weapon

DialgaMarine said:
Insidb said:
So...Rian Johnson is getting fired?

Normally I wouldn’t want to see someone fired, but Last Jedi was a god awful film. I tried to like it after seeing it the first time, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized how trashy and pointless it was, and how it basically took every other film and piece of lore to date, and just said “f*ck it, let’s turn half the movie into an SJW’s wet dream, and have next to nothing that’s relevant to the franchise”. 

Aside from the bolded, I totally see your point.

My biggest issue was how disjointed and unnecessary the screenplay proved to be.



SpokenTruth said:
Insidb said:

A word to the wise: don't use this term; it just lowers you to the level of racists who drop n-bombs.

Have you seen the movie?

Yeah, it was very good, not sure I would call it "great." BP has some inherent oddities to it, but they executed the story very well. One of the best parts of the film is it's cultural uniqueness, as I can't think of another movie quite like it.

Also, I get the joke: I think T'Challa's little sister used it, in a derogatory manner. They can use it in the film, because those are the characters, but I'd just advise against using it in public.