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Forums - Politics Discussion - Any gun nuts in here?

Locknuts said:

I have noticed that since Donald Trump even suggested putting gun control on the table as a possibility, the second amendment people have flipped out. 

My question is this: If the US government made it more difficult to buy semi-automatic rifles, would that really make it any more difficult to rise up against a tyrannical US government? Let's be real here - if they're coming for your guns, they're not sending in the local Sheriff to get shot. It's the most powerful military on earth coming to your suburb with everything at its disposal (tanks, jets and nuclear weapons).

You've probably already lost the ability to rise up against tyranny. Even if you haven't, a militia of 10-20 million shotgun, pistol and single shot action rifle toting men descending on Washington isn't going to be much less effective than if those same people had semi-automatic rifles.

 

That third paragraph is something gun rights advocates don't really consider when saying the 2nd amendment is needed as a check against governments. As a Brit, I feel safer knowing that the odds of me coming across a guy with a gun are very slim, compared to being in American where any nutter I look at the wrong way may take up the issue with his pistol.

As for the self-defence argument, I think you could reasonably say a pistol is for self-defence, maybe a shotgun if it's kept at your home, but assault rifles and semi automatics are weapons of war not defensive tools.

The US will not change it though. The NRA will not allow you to have a grown-up debate about it. Stopping even legislation that restricts the mentally ill getting access to gun is just plain insane. Also, the US has so many guns that to reduce the scale of the problem you probably would need to take away at least some of them - and clearly that wouldn't go down well.



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The 2nd amendment has a lot of significance here in America, but these days it's almost more on a cultural/symbolic level than anything. We have this sort of anti-government, anti-establishment cultural fiber ingrained in our society and the idea that the general public can have the right to be armed plays a part in that. On a practical level I think it's getting lost and restrictions should be put in place to accommodate the dynamics of modern times, and it's pretty ridiculous to think we'd have any chance to stand against the government in firepower, but I do still understand and respect our 2nd amendment. Still much more an advocate of the 1st (freedom of speech), but the 2nd is part of the fabric of our society and shouldn't be tampered with, lest we start to lose our own identity as Americans.

On another level, our gun culture I think comes from our hunting nature, and the fact that the large land mass of the US doesn't always enable those in the "flyover" areas in particular to come running to the police when trouble arises. This is where having your own weapons come in handy here, when the cops can't scramble over to assist you in a crisis within minutes.

To make clear, I'm no advocate of guns by any means, but at the same time, I can somewhat see where the love of guns comes from in our country in comparison to others.

Unfortunately, we've always been something of a violent country culturally speaking, and one that thrives on this mentality of "me vs you," which, when combined with the relative ease of accessing high-powered firearms (along with the massive distribution of mind-altering psych meds) can produce the recipe for disaster, but I do believe that the guns in and of themselves aren't necessarily the problem.



 

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vivster said:
ironmanDX said:

When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists.It is an approach that the Americans should take to end the constant slaughter of innocents.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21714

At work right now but I'll leave this here. Food for thought.

Sometimes it helps to read further than just a headline.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-dismisses-us-gun-lobbys-inaccurate-claim-about-gun-laws/

1. Israel has very strict gun laws and very low civil gun ownership

2. Armed guards at school weren't mandated until 2 decades after the school shooting.

3. Armed guards are meant to stop terrorists and not disgruntled civilians. Israel has seen plenty of terrorist attacks over the years.

So in one point you are correct. The US should follow Israels polices by enacting stricter gun laws. Food for thought.

Don't forget the fact the israel is a part of the middle east (probably the most dangerous region in the world right now) and is pretty much in a semi-cold war state with one of its neighbours, but has still had massively fewer school shootings than the US. Really makes the US look bad in that regard, doesn't it?



Well. Im not a "gun-nut" but will not stand to have any of mine confiscated because someone thinks I shouldn't have them, its non of their business.

The background check system needs improvement as we have seen from the recent shooting here in Florida. The cops were called on this maniac several times as well as people trying to tell federal officials he wanted to shoot up the school and nothing was done. And now the MSM has made it political to further an agenda that will go nowhere here in the states.

You may want to check for "knife-nuts" next time there is a stabbing over there?



 

I think one major misconception might be that nobody will ever try to take someone's guns away. That would never work first and would be waaaay too much of a hassle second.

Rather, it should be more difficult to obtain them in the first place. Also, I hope the currently rising generation will look at guns as something bad and distance itself from them. That's my wishful thinking. Call me naive. But that way, guns wouldn't have such a high status.



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