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Forums - Politics Discussion - Delta and United join list of companies to cut ties with the NRA - maybe this truly is the end of gun rights in the US?

NRA membership has gone way up. Narrative went from ''Never Again'' like it should be, to ''Lets ban guns'' agenda pretty quick. Not coincidence that david hoggs dad is ex fbi, that cameron ainksly(if i spelled it right) who's been one of the main figure heads of the main kid group having dinners and meeting with Ohr, Fusion GPS wife.

Too much of the agenda is showing for a gun grab rather than an actually debate on things like mental health and the complete incompetence of law enforcement in Florida and the FBI



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17 kids died because no body did there stopping this nut.FBI didn't do anything.police didn't stop
The cop stood out side and there was other guards with gunsThey didn't stop it.dont blame the NRA my guns never killed nobody
In Chicago 50 people are shot dead every week from illegal hand gun's liberals don't say anything



actually, nah, i'm not going to participate in political threads for a while. 



PwerlvlAmy said:
NRA membership has gone way up. Narrative went from ''Never Again'' like it should be, to ''Lets ban guns'' agenda pretty quick. Not coincidence that david hoggs dad is ex fbi, that cameron ainksly(if i spelled it right) who's been one of the main figure heads of the main kid group having dinners and meeting with Ohr, Fusion GPS wife.

Too much of the agenda is showing for a gun grab rather than an actually debate on things like mental health and the complete incompetence of law enforcement in Florida and the FBI

Ban guns is not the same thing as gun regulation.

The most "liberal" countries in the world also have some of the highest gun ownership rates.  Norway, Sweden, France, Austria, Canada are very near the top.

There are some leftists that do claim that banning guns is the answer, but they're a minority.  I've seen people from both sides claim that Australia banned guns.  They didn't.  

Here's one such gun lover in Australia:

http://time.com/4172274/what-its-like-to-own-guns-in-a-country-with-strict-gun-control/

Lespaul said:

17 kids died because no body did there stopping this nut.FBI didn't do anything.police didn't stop
The cop stood out side and there was other guards with gunsThey didn't stop it.dont blame the NRA my guns never killed nobody
In Chicago 50 people are shot dead every week from illegal hand gun's liberals don't say anything

50 people every week is an exaggeration.  Even 1 is too many, so I'm not excusing it.  But the actual numbers are closer to 12.  

Liberals talk all the time.



Puppyroach said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
Drunk driving causes as many homicides as guns in the USA. And if anything it's worse because most drunk driving is late at night/early in the morning, and most gun deaths in the USA are gang vs. gang.

The reason the West is free is because the USA has guns.

Is it legal to be drunk and drive?

This guy murdered 3 teenagers/young adults drunk driving and was released on bail: http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/camillus-man-accused-of-driving-drunk-killing-3-people-released-from-jail-on-bail/989969759

If a guy shot up 3 teenagers the NRA would get attacked; the second amendment would be under threat; the shooter would get life in prison/death penalty (rightfully so); constant media coverage; etc. etc.

Another drunk driver who has had 2 DUIs in the past killed someone and only got 4 years in prison.

If you drink then you have no room to complain about guns.



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Leadified said:
o_O.Q said:

my point was in fact about the tyranny of the majority... that's what formed the soviet union... you weren't aware?

the thing you so called "socialists" don't get about "socialism" and communism is that at its core its about  stripping away rights to reduce people down to the lowest common denominator... for "equality"

which any sensible person realises right away is not desirable in the least if you actually want to help people, especially the poor

 

i'm still waiting to hear about how hitler privitised everything and yet still controlled the economy btw

Lol so first you believe that the guy who allied with the German capitalists is a socialist and now you believe that the Soviet Union is an example of tyranny of the majority.

Can you let us know where you get your Kool-Aid? It sounds like some good stuff.

Edit: Oh also nice doublethink, there you agree with me that democracy in the Soviet Union was eroded by authoritarianism and now here you try to say it was democratic.

"Lol so first you believe that the guy who allied with the German capitalists is a socialist"

lmao... ok i'll change my question... do you agree that hitler controlled the economy of germany through his government?

after you've answered that question tell me whether its socialism or capitalism that cedes control of the means of production to government

 

"now you believe that the Soviet Union is an example of tyranny of the majority."

now there's really only two ways that i can interpret this since you have acknowledged that the soviet union was democratic

either you don't think that the soviet union was a tyranny which would be a tragedy

or you're just being dishonest

 

" Oh also nice doublethink, there you agree with me that democracy in the Soviet Union was eroded by authoritarianism"

the only way you could say that is if you didn't read my post... i mean you quoted it... did you not read it?

 

so are you really trying to tell me though that you don't understand that a democracy can be authoritarian?

you don't think that its possible for the majority of people in a society to vote the rights of the people in their society away to government?



2A should be taken out, it's been the cause of so much death



the-pi-guy said:
o_O.Q said:

"The point is that guns aren't the only way to achieve freedom."

against an armed oppressor they are the only way

 

"No.  The entire world of conflicts in the middle east or Africa or anywhere else are nothing compared to world war I or II."

i didn't realise that the world wars represented the entirety of human history outside of the present day

 

"From Jefferson, governments derive their powers from the consent of the governed.  "

what do you understand from this quote?:

""Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99 percent vote.""

the problem with democracy is that if the majority decides that it is just to strip away the rights of all then all are forced to comply

the reason why america was called a "constitutional republic" with "creator endowed rights" is because they understood that they people could be led quite easily to destroy themselves by revoking their rights for greater security

so they put down certain base rights and formed government around that

democracy does not inherently recognise creator endowed rights, the will of the majority of the people becomes law and as a result 

"democracy is indispensable to socialism"


"against an armed oppressor they are the only way"

Only if the armed oppressor is bigger, or less ethical.  

 

"i didn't realise that the world wars represented the entirety of human history outside of the present day"

I didn't realize you were unable to understand the facts beyond the examples that I gave you.  

There is data going back several centuries.  The world is absolutely safer today than ever before.  
Even the world wars were less deadly than most of human history.

"the problem with democracy is that if the majority decides that it is just to strip away the rights of all then all are forced to comply"

This is why there is a necessity to have an educated populace.  This is the danger of having propaganda, fake news, etc.


 

"Only if the armed oppressor is bigger, or less ethical. "

i think that being an oppressor and being ethical at the same time is kind of an oxymoron don't you think?

 

"I didn't realize you were unable to understand the facts beyond the examples that I gave you.  "

i was pointing out that it was fallacious to use the world wars as representations of how things have been throughout human history

 

"This is why there is a necessity to have an educated populace."

education does not taken away the limitations that cause people to be selfish, or envious or greedy etc etc etc

in fact it amplifies those traits in many instances

therefore, the idea that we can simply teach people out of wanting to be malevolent is a waste of time



Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:

" You are still ok with the rest having easy acess to guns. I don't think that's smart and will just enable killings to continue"

 

china a communist country with strict gun control:

 

"33 Dead, 130 Injured in China Knife-Wielding Spree"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

 

"School attacks in China (2010–12)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010%E2%80%9312)

 

"At least five people have been killed"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10697924/Five-killed-in-market-stabbings-in-China.html

 

"2 killed, 18 injured in deadly southwest China stabbing spree "

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/guizhou-china-stabbing-spree-two-killed-eighteen-injured/

 

"Four dead in fatal stabbing"

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-02/25/c_136999268.htm

^^^^^^^^ this happened today btw

 

its about time you wake up to reality

You want to know what is interesting about the links you provided.  It took multiple people to perform those murders.  Lets say in the first link where 33 people were killed by 4 knife wielding assailants, but instead each one had an AR 15 what do you think the death toll would be.  Instead of 33 we would see hundreds.  Its just the order of magnitude which is where you are missing the point.  No one is saying bad people cannot find ways to kill.  The difference in America is that Bad people have a very easy time acquiring weapons where one person can kill and wound like they were 4.

it does not take multiple people to wield a machete or knife

let me present a similar argument to yours - 4 people can ride in a car but it does not take 4 people to operate a car

 

"Lets say in the first link where 33 people were killed by 4 knife wielding assailants, but instead each one had an AR 15 what do you think the death toll would be. "

suppose they decided to build bombs instead?

or suppose they decided to rent 4 pick up trucks and run people down?



PwerlvlAmy said:
NRA membership has gone way up. Narrative went from ''Never Again'' like it should be, to ''Lets ban guns'' agenda pretty quick. Not coincidence that david hoggs dad is ex fbi, that cameron ainksly(if i spelled it right) who's been one of the main figure heads of the main kid group having dinners and meeting with Ohr, Fusion GPS wife.

Too much of the agenda is showing for a gun grab rather than an actually debate on things like mental health and the complete incompetence of law enforcement in Florida and the FBI

"david hoggs dad is ex fbi, that cameron ainksly(if i spelled it right) who's been one of the main figure heads of the main kid group having dinners and meeting with Ohr, Fusion GPS wife. "

what are you implying?