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Forums - Politics Discussion - School Shooting in South Florida

numberwang on 15 February 2018
CosmicSex said:
numberwang said:

If you want to make it politically you would have to ban Assault Democrats. Most of the countryside is murder free.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

 

That has more to do with population than political affiliation.  You are part of the insanity problem if you can't even get past you hate of a political designation.  Your kind of thinking makes it impossible for people to see the truth and keeps them pointing at each other instead of actually doing something about the problem.  The issues is providing mentally ill people with war machines to increase the level of fear in our society.  The issues is not getting these people help and getting these weapons off the streets.   You can't have mass mental illness and stock piles of guns.  It is insane to expect anyone else.    More densely populated areas are always going to have more ill people and more guns.  Don't be silly.  Just try to address it.  Don't be scared, that is the method the NRA uses to keep us killing each other and buying their guns. 

Mental illness might be responsible for some shootings, but is not the main reason for higher murder rates. The problem is societal degeneration which only in part is fostered by the anonymity of larger cities. Fatherless children who have nobody to teach them values, adoration of criminals in the entertainment media, adoration of vain status symbols, drugs, reduction of religious values, excuse-culture instead of responsibility and many more.



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Bajablo on 15 February 2018
dirtylemons said:
Bajablo said:

ok... lets take this one more time... SCHOOL SHOTINGS can only happen with guns.. what is this thread about? that an idiot shot people in a school.

and no, 'but look at mexico it is way worse there!' is kindergarten logic levels. Saying there is worse somewhere else does not in any way shape or form make 'you' better. the US has a problem, hope you can agree on that.

I absolutely think the U.S. has a problem. Many of them, actually. But I assume that the reason you have a problem with school shootings is because they're violent, yes? If so, then I think it totally reasonable to ask why so many people are quick to pontificate about violence in the U.S., but also ignore the neighbouring country which fares much worse in this regard.

you have one valid point in this.. and it's that you don't 'hear' about the shootings in other countries in the same manner.
However, i have no clue where you are getting your statistics from.. and how you hold Mexico, to the same standard as you would a 'US/UK/France/Germany/ ' (you should perhaps compare yourself to canada, pick one from the list that are in the ballpark.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

you own more guns per person of any country in the world. you are roughly 5% of the total population of the earth yet commit 31% (1966-2012) of all the mass shootings...(4 or more injured/dead is the definition apparently).
and.... how many of those weapon used were 'good legal guns'
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
(link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0)
more data.. and would you know, people kill other people with those good happy legal guns...

Ok, i'm done.. just getting depressed from digging into more data about this.
have a great day and i hope the US wakes up at some point, but it seems waaaaay off as usual.

edit: just found this, great.. blame it on the dead kids and their families... i hope that this isn't representative of the people..

 

Last edited by Bajablo - on 15 February 2018

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CosmicSex on 15 February 2018
dirtylemons said:
CosmicSex said:
Oh I am sorry this is the 19th this year. And it only happens here. People are sick being obsessed with a 200 year old amendment that has nothing to do with the reality of our current situation. Is there really nothing these fools will do to even protect themselves or even their children. What is wrong with these people?

 

CosmicSex said:

That has more to do with population than political affiliation.  You are part of the insanity problem if you can't even get past you hate of a political designation.  Your kind of thinking makes it impossible for people to see the truth and keeps them pointing at each other instead of actually doing something about the problem.  The issues is providing mentally ill people with war machines to increase the level of fear in our society.  The issues is not getting these people help and getting these weapons off the streets.   You can't have mass mental illness and stock piles of guns.  It is insane to expect anyone else.    More densely populated areas are always going to have more ill people and more guns.  Don't be silly.  Just try to address it.  Don't be scared, that is the method the NRA uses to keep us killing each other and buying their guns. 

You call people fools, saying they are against protecting themselves and their children if they disagree with you. Do you not think this approach to discourse is also part of the problem?

HELL NO.  It is foolish to watch kids die OVER AND OVER and continue down that path.  Its not about agreeing with me silly.  Its about protecting yourself and doing something because we have a unique problem that no one else has in developed countries.  If anyone can't make the correlation after 19 damn school shootings, you are a fool.  Its time to stop treating people like responsible adults and more like the dangerous enablers they are.  What exactly are you defending here?  You know what, I don't care.  Just talk in a way that attempts to save some kids.   Its not some Democrat or Republican thing.  Its a mental illness, gun, and no sensitivity to violence thing. Discourse is fine as long as you are doing something about the damn killing problem.  Like actually something.  And its not us. It is our so called leaders.  



MinatozakiSana on 15 February 2018

mental illness might be a factor . That's why the very point of gun control is preventing these mentally unhealthy people from obtaining guns let alone military weapons like in this shooting. I don't know how anyone could be against it.



numberwang on 15 February 2018

Cruz made specific death threads earlier on yt. FBI was informed but did not do much as it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzNwinmBawo



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dirtylemons on 15 February 2018
Bajablo said:
dirtylemons said:

I absolutely think the U.S. has a problem. Many of them, actually. But I assume that the reason you have a problem with school shootings is because they're violent, yes? If so, then I think it totally reasonable to ask why so many people are quick to pontificate about violence in the U.S., but also ignore the neighbouring country which fares much worse in this regard.

you have one valid point in this.. and it's that you don't 'hear' about the shootings in other countries in the same manner.
However, i have no clue where you are getting your statistics from.. and how you hold Mexico, to the same standard as you would a 'US/UK/France/Germany/ ' (you should perhaps compare yourself to canada, pick one from the list that are in the ballpark.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

you own more guns per person of any country in the world. you are roughly 5% of the total population of the earth yet commit 31% (1966-2012) of all the mass shootings...(4 or more injured/dead is the definition apparently).
and.... how many of those weapon used were 'good legal guns'
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
(link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0)
more data.. and would you know, people kill other people with those good happy legal guns...

Ok, i'm done.. just getting depressed from digging into more data about this.
have a great day and i hope the US wakes up at some point, but it seems waaaaay off as usual.

The firearm statistics are from gunpolicy.org and the homicide rates are according to the United Nations.
As I mentioned in another post, the U.S. has more guns than it does cars, yet more people die in automobile-related incidents than firearm-related ones, more people use guns for self-defense than to commit murder and the most liberal estimates I've seen of how many legally acquired firearms are used to commit murder weren't much more than ten percent. All of the above suggests to me that simply tightening the existing regulations (at the very least) will not lead to a dramatic drop in violence, and could even potentially lead to the opposite.



Nymeria on 15 February 2018

After Sandy Hook I realized it won't change as long as the people in power stay there. Once children being murdered didn't move the needle, the die was cast. It's become so routine there seems to be little point to even discuss the matter. Shootings happen, mass shootings happen, school shootings happen, it is part of American life.

If it really bothers people show up and vote for representatives that will do something. Until then the empty thoughts and prayers pale to the acceptance that this is accepted. It will happen again this year and the whole pointless cycle will repeat.

Can you imagine if after September 11th we simply said, "No reason to do anything rash like invade multiple countries, spend trillions of dollars, and lead to death of hundreds of thousands. Thoughts and prayers will suffice, now move on."



Bajablo on 15 February 2018
dirtylemons said:
Bajablo said:

you have one valid point in this.. and it's that you don't 'hear' about the shootings in other countries in the same manner.
However, i have no clue where you are getting your statistics from.. and how you hold Mexico, to the same standard as you would a 'US/UK/France/Germany/ ' (you should perhaps compare yourself to canada, pick one from the list that are in the ballpark.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

you own more guns per person of any country in the world. you are roughly 5% of the total population of the earth yet commit 31% (1966-2012) of all the mass shootings...(4 or more injured/dead is the definition apparently).
and.... how many of those weapon used were 'good legal guns'
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
(link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0)
more data.. and would you know, people kill other people with those good happy legal guns...

Ok, i'm done.. just getting depressed from digging into more data about this.
have a great day and i hope the US wakes up at some point, but it seems waaaaay off as usual.

The firearm statistics are from gunpolicy.org and the homicide rates are according to the United Nations.
As I mentioned in another post, the U.S. has more guns than it does cars, yet more people die in automobile-related incidents than firearm-related ones, more people use guns for self-defense than to commit murder and the most liberal estimates I've seen of how many legally acquired firearms are used to commit murder weren't much more than ten percent. All of the above suggests to me that simply tightening the existing regulations (at the very least) will not lead to a dramatic drop in violence, and could even potentially lead to the opposite.

Edit: f*ck it.. lets link the whole thing

Last edited by Bajablo - on 15 February 2018

3DS FC# 4553-9947-9017 NNID: Bajablo

Torn-City - MMO text based RPG, join me! :)

dirtylemons on 15 February 2018
CosmicSex said:
dirtylemons said:

 

You call people fools, saying they are against protecting themselves and their children if they disagree with you. Do you not think this approach to discourse is also part of the problem?

HELL NO.  It is foolish to watch kids die OVER AND OVER and continue down that path.  Its not about agreeing with me silly.  Its about protecting yourself and doing something because we have a unique problem that no one else has in developed countries.  If anyone can't make the correlation after 19 damn school shootings, you are a fool.  Its time to stop treating people like responsible adults and more like the dangerous enablers they are.  What exactly are you defending here?  You know what, I don't care.  Just talk in a way that attempts to save some kids.   Its not some Democrat or Republican thing.  Its a mental illness, gun, and no sensitivity to violence thing. Discourse is fine as long as you are doing something about the damn killing problem.  Like actually something.  And its not us. It is our so called leaders.  

Children die in every country, no exception. And violence is certainly not a unique problem to the U.S.
Again, you call someone a fool for simply not agreeing with you.
You talk about "doing something", but I ask, what are you doing that I am not? It seems to me you are conflating having the 'correct' position with actually changing things.



dirtylemons on 15 February 2018
MinatozakiSana said:
mental illness might be a factor . That's why the very point of gun control is preventing these mentally unhealthy people from obtaining guns let alone military weapons like in this shooting. I don't know how anyone could be against it.

I don't think many, if any, people are actually against that. It seems to be a distinction between certain types of mental disabilities.