Forums - Politics Discussion - EU voted to end Geo Blocking!!

Tulipanzo said:
An important first step, if not groundbreaking on its own. The Internet exists beyond borders, and everyone should be able to access it freely.

The major discussion will happen surrounding digital services, which have shown more propensity for geoblocking costumers (*cough* Netflix)
Legislation for content distribution is in dire need of an update. Still interesting times.

P.S. lol at DonFerrari for trying to make this sound bad

Yes laugh at me all you want also ask for more govern intervention it is always good and necessary.

Internet exist beyond borders sure, and several companies have multiple locations, and funny enough you can find different prices on different locations (even within the same country, state or city). So, sorry, but price isn't solely determined by the existence of boundaries.

You may not believe but long term demanding that companies offer a single solution to the whole EU may be bad for customers.

Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes it can be because they are dicks, still its their service and they may do it and you as customer not accepting it not sign-in.

Lot of different licenses and regulations also it make the cost lower when they limit content to regions.

When I log into crunchyroll in house using language as PT-BR I have some content available while on EN there is some different, when I log in the company (connection passthrough USA, so I have "geolocation" from there) the licenses changes and some content that I had in PT-BR won't show unless I put in EN while there will be more content in EN... so it is a lot convoluted.

Limiting content to regions also makes things cost more. I know here in the UK we are one of the worst off for that. We often have among the highest prices yet less content than regions like the US which gets things cheaper as well.

And it's quite easy to fix the licencing issue. If they're intent on completely ending geo blocking then they'd just make it illegal to sell region exclusive licences. You can licence the thing globally, or you can piss off.

I think you are making confusion. On this kind of conversation cost means what is internal for the company, what you are looking at is price being higher and value being lower (which sure is an issue... and a bigger issue is thinking that this law will make all content that is mandated to be offered at the same price to be the lower price).

It must be really good to live in these countries where you can summarize your thinking to only the possible good outcomes.

Nem said:
DonFerrari said:

And why should a legislation exist to allow you to change country on PSN? Even more when if you just want to access a different store you may just create an account over there, buy, download and use on your main acc.

And why shouldn't it? Europe is a union. We have a single currency and we can freely buy things in one country or the one next door without any barriers. This barrier is therefore redundant and an unecessary obstacle and us, european consumers would benefit from it being teared down.

Btw, we are talking about europe, not the whole world. Thought i'd mention because you seem to have missed the beggining of the conversation and might be under the wrong impression. 

As I said before, your city is also a single one, still it's possible to go to 2 different stores of the same owner and see different prices... you know why? Because the cost to deliver the product in one place is different than the other and also the demand elasticity curve is different as well.

To mandate that companies practice a single price europe wide will make it that some places that got it lower will pay more and perhaps some places that paid more to pay less... there is very little reason to believe they would practice the lowest price available to all regions under new legislation.

I know it is talking exclusively about EU, ONU or any other supranational organization thank god still doesn't have supreme sovereign over the whole globe.

setsunatenshi said:
About damn time!

Though as someone mentioned before there are some loopholes still in place for specific countries.

I got burned once buying way back when COD Black Ops in the shop (for PC) and when I start the game all the menus were in Polish with no option to change to English or any other language (maybe Russian).

That's the biggest load of shit ever, basically if you're a foreigner you're just fucked.

I thought I learned the lesson, so I basically stopped buying any other games in physical media, instead I would just buy the more expensive international version for every single purchase. I did so with BF1 on origin, paid the price in Eur and the day it releases I get everything in Polish once again.

Lucky me that the customer support guy was actually a decent human and changed whatever settings were needed to get the "normal" version of the game. It had automatically switched all the language settings to Polish just because I had a Polish IP at the time.

So yeah... about fucking time this changes.

Because sure a product destined to polish market needs 25 different languages so you can buy in different countries ¬¬

torok said:
DonFerrari said:

From Brazil you can make acc on USA, JP and Europe without any hussle.

Yes, but you can't change the country of an account, you can only make a new one in a different country. Xbox Live allows you to change the country a few times per year.

Yes I understood the complaint of the guy, still that is a point he have to do to Sony or boycott them instead of seeking legislation about it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network
Nem said:

You know... i was thinking about it and since the trophies are the only problem, Sony could definitly have it on PSN aswell. It would just require you to go over a procedure to transfer trophies or the creation of a new account with said trophies when changing country. 

This legislation may make the whole process easier but SCE could definitly do it already. They are just weird that way.

Well, you also have all your digital content (games, DLC, films, etc) and your friend list. I really can't understand why they can't do something so simple.



DonFerrari said:
Tulipanzo said:
An important first step, if not groundbreaking on its own. The Internet exists beyond borders, and everyone should be able to access it freely.

The major discussion will happen surrounding digital services, which have shown more propensity for geoblocking costumers (*cough* Netflix)
Legislation for content distribution is in dire need of an update. Still interesting times.

P.S. lol at DonFerrari for trying to make this sound bad

Yes laugh at me all you want also ask for more govern intervention it is always good and necessary.

Internet exist beyond borders sure, and several companies have multiple locations, and funny enough you can find different prices on different locations (even within the same country, state or city). So, sorry, but price isn't solely determined by the existence of boundaries.

You may not believe but long term demanding that companies offer a single solution to the whole EU may be bad for customers.

Ka-pi96 said:

Limiting content to regions also makes things cost more. I know here in the UK we are one of the worst off for that. We often have among the highest prices yet less content than regions like the US which gets things cheaper as well.

And it's quite easy to fix the licencing issue. If they're intent on completely ending geo blocking then they'd just make it illegal to sell region exclusive licences. You can licence the thing globally, or you can piss off.

I think you are making confusion. On this kind of conversation cost means what is internal for the company, what you are looking at is price being higher and value being lower (which sure is an issue... and a bigger issue is thinking that this law will make all content that is mandated to be offered at the same price to be the lower price).

It must be really good to live in these countries where you can summarize your thinking to only the possible good outcomes.

Nem said:

And why shouldn't it? Europe is a union. We have a single currency and we can freely buy things in one country or the one next door without any barriers. This barrier is therefore redundant and an unecessary obstacle and us, european consumers would benefit from it being teared down.

Btw, we are talking about europe, not the whole world. Thought i'd mention because you seem to have missed the beggining of the conversation and might be under the wrong impression. 

As I said before, your city is also a single one, still it's possible to go to 2 different stores of the same owner and see different prices... you know why? Because the cost to deliver the product in one place is different than the other and also the demand elasticity curve is different as well.

To mandate that companies practice a single price europe wide will make it that some places that got it lower will pay more and perhaps some places that paid more to pay less... there is very little reason to believe they would practice the lowest price available to all regions under new legislation.

I know it is talking exclusively about EU, ONU or any other supranational organization thank god still doesn't have supreme sovereign over the whole globe.

setsunatenshi said:
About damn time!

Though as someone mentioned before there are some loopholes still in place for specific countries.

I got burned once buying way back when COD Black Ops in the shop (for PC) and when I start the game all the menus were in Polish with no option to change to English or any other language (maybe Russian).

That's the biggest load of shit ever, basically if you're a foreigner you're just fucked.

I thought I learned the lesson, so I basically stopped buying any other games in physical media, instead I would just buy the more expensive international version for every single purchase. I did so with BF1 on origin, paid the price in Eur and the day it releases I get everything in Polish once again.

Lucky me that the customer support guy was actually a decent human and changed whatever settings were needed to get the "normal" version of the game. It had automatically switched all the language settings to Polish just because I had a Polish IP at the time.

So yeah... about fucking time this changes.

Because sure a product destined to polish market needs 25 different languages so you can buy in different countries ¬¬

torok said:

Yes, but you can't change the country of an account, you can only make a new one in a different country. Xbox Live allows you to change the country a few times per year.

Yes I understood the complaint of the guy, still that is a point he have to do to Sony or boycott them instead of seeking legislation about it.

@ bold: That's what you don't seem to understand, there's no "polish market", there's an European market.

 

It seems by several of your comments in this thread that you have some issue with consumer friendly EU regulations, which is puzzling to say the least as you're probably a consumer yourself, but most of all you're not an EU citizen nor do you live in the EU.

Feel free to correct me if I jumped to a wrong conclusion here.



Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Barozi said:

And what makes you say that?

I've imported games, movies, books and even consoles from the UK, France, Spain and Italy and never paid a fee.

... Obviously that I have had to pay fees, what else would it be?

It seems like you don't wanna talk about what you bought, what fee you had to pay, how much you paid and who told you to pay the fee.

What was the point about your first post in this thread then?



setsunatenshi said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes laugh at me all you want also ask for more govern intervention it is always good and necessary.

Internet exist beyond borders sure, and several companies have multiple locations, and funny enough you can find different prices on different locations (even within the same country, state or city). So, sorry, but price isn't solely determined by the existence of boundaries.

You may not believe but long term demanding that companies offer a single solution to the whole EU may be bad for customers.

I think you are making confusion. On this kind of conversation cost means what is internal for the company, what you are looking at is price being higher and value being lower (which sure is an issue... and a bigger issue is thinking that this law will make all content that is mandated to be offered at the same price to be the lower price).

It must be really good to live in these countries where you can summarize your thinking to only the possible good outcomes.

As I said before, your city is also a single one, still it's possible to go to 2 different stores of the same owner and see different prices... you know why? Because the cost to deliver the product in one place is different than the other and also the demand elasticity curve is different as well.

To mandate that companies practice a single price europe wide will make it that some places that got it lower will pay more and perhaps some places that paid more to pay less... there is very little reason to believe they would practice the lowest price available to all regions under new legislation.

I know it is talking exclusively about EU, ONU or any other supranational organization thank god still doesn't have supreme sovereign over the whole globe.

Because sure a product destined to polish market needs 25 different languages so you can buy in different countries ¬¬

Yes I understood the complaint of the guy, still that is a point he have to do to Sony or boycott them instead of seeking legislation about it.

@ bold: That's what you don't seem to understand, there's no "polish market", there's an European market.

 

It seems by several of your comments in this thread that you have some issue with consumer friendly EU regulations, which is puzzling to say the least as you're probably a consumer yourself, but most of all you're not an EU citizen nor do you live in the EU.

Feel free to correct me if I jumped to a wrong conclusion here.

You are the one not understanding... even if the whole globe were to be considered a single market without any barrier, tax, etc the interest of several different places are different.

Every single product have a market and people interested in it. So when someone releases a product at some place he may make it direct to it, that is a prerogative of who creates a product.

Everyone eats, still each one have different tastes and products one wants to eat. So one selling to the whole world won't try to sell horse meat on Brazil, pork meat to jews or cow to Indians.

I have a problem with government intervention, as they may all seem like customer friendly, good intended, etc... but freedom of trade is better than government imposition. So if you want Amazon per say to sell at the same price to all EU markets you and others can request Amazon to do it, when you demand the government to do, the end result more often than not won't be exactly you had in mind.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network
DonFerrari said:
setsunatenshi said:

@ bold: That's what you don't seem to understand, there's no "polish market", there's an European market.

 

It seems by several of your comments in this thread that you have some issue with consumer friendly EU regulations, which is puzzling to say the least as you're probably a consumer yourself, but most of all you're not an EU citizen nor do you live in the EU.

Feel free to correct me if I jumped to a wrong conclusion here.

You are the one not understanding... even if the whole globe were to be considered a single market without any barrier, tax, etc the interest of several different places are different.

Every single product have a market and people interested in it. So when someone releases a product at some place he may make it direct to it, that is a prerogative of who creates a product.

Everyone eats, still each one have different tastes and products one wants to eat. So one selling to the whole world won't try to sell horse meat on Brazil, pork meat to jews or cow to Indians.

I have a problem with government intervention, as they may all seem like customer friendly, good intended, etc... but freedom of trade is better than government imposition. So if you want Amazon per say to sell at the same price to all EU markets you and others can request Amazon to do it, when you demand the government to do, the end result more often than not won't be exactly you had in mind.

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now



setsunatenshi said:
DonFerrari said:

You are the one not understanding... even if the whole globe were to be considered a single market without any barrier, tax, etc the interest of several different places are different.

Every single product have a market and people interested in it. So when someone releases a product at some place he may make it direct to it, that is a prerogative of who creates a product.

Everyone eats, still each one have different tastes and products one wants to eat. So one selling to the whole world won't try to sell horse meat on Brazil, pork meat to jews or cow to Indians.

I have a problem with government intervention, as they may all seem like customer friendly, good intended, etc... but freedom of trade is better than government imposition. So if you want Amazon per say to sell at the same price to all EU markets you and others can request Amazon to do it, when you demand the government to do, the end result more often than not won't be exactly you had in mind.

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now

1 - Sure, have I said the rule is illegal or that the companies that don't abide are doing so under the law. I just said that the government (or supragovernment shouldn't intefere on this) and that even considering smaller markets there are still geographical differences, because there is and it have nothing to do with law.

2 - If you open one in France and one in Germany and have different price that isn't discrimination them?

3 - If you are so willing to bend over and accept that government intervention shall have no boundaries all the power to you. Which still, until they approve a law prohibiting me to say it, take out my right to consider it unneeded and with more than often negative impact.

4 - Not flawed. If you demand that anyone within EU can buy from any online store, then the very existence of national sites becomes irrelevant.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Wow, that was even a thing? That runs counter to the entire purpose of the EU in the first place.



Barozi said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:

... Obviously that I have had to pay fees, what else would it be?

It seems like you don't wanna talk about what you bought, what fee you had to pay, how much you paid and who told you to pay the fee.

What was the point about your first post in this thread then?

Lol, what kind of accusatory post is this? You never asked?

The only things I ever order are games, books or figurines, and I don't remember how much I had to pay, but we get tolls in Sweden ALL the time. You don't in Germany? Hey, good for you, congrats. Why are you acting as if this is some suspicious shit? I have to pay tons most of the time when I import, regardless of where it's from, and I know several other people who do to, not just in Sweden.



I am currently sigless.

DonFerrari said:
setsunatenshi said:

Let's break this down:

 

1- The EU is a single market. There's no hypothetical here of considering the whole world or whatever. As a EU citizens we have certain rights and obligations. Companies also have certain rights and obligations if they want to operate in the EU. As such, if the EU determines this Geo blocking within EU countries is unlawful, the companies must abide by it, period.

2- No one is saying where any company must sell their product, if they want to open a shop in Germany but not in France, that's their business. What they can't do is discriminate a consumer just because he's from a different EU country.

3- Your problem with government intervention is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is we live in a society with laws, and the laws are made by the governments that are elected by the people. Feel free to use your vote and political speech to influence the types of laws that are passed, but there's no way a government will stop existing to create and enforce said laws.

4- Finally your example is completely flawed. If amazon.de wants to sell a product cheaper than amazon.fr, they are perfectly free to do so. What they can't do is block a French person from buying said product from their German store.

 

Hope it's a bit more clear now

1 - Sure, have I said the rule is illegal or that the companies that don't abide are doing so under the law. I just said that the government (or supragovernment shouldn't intefere on this) and that even considering smaller markets there are still geographical differences, because there is and it have nothing to do with law.

2 - If you open one in France and one in Germany and have different price that isn't discrimination them?

3 - If you are so willing to bend over and accept that government intervention shall have no boundaries all the power to you. Which still, until they approve a law prohibiting me to say it, take out my right to consider it unneeded and with more than often negative impact.

4 - Not flawed. If you demand that anyone within EU can buy from any online store, then the very existence of national sites becomes irrelevant.

1- If the government doesn't "interfere" to correct anti-consumer behavior, then where exactly should they intervene? That's about the most useful thing the government can do. Make sure the consumer doesn't get abused by whichever companies. This is a regulated market.

2- Not really? It's up to the company to dictate the price they want to sell their goods. What they can't do is force me to buy them on shop A instead of shop B. The consumer should be free to pick which shop they want to spend their money (at least in the EU).

3- Government intervention absolutely has boundaries, that's why we have separation of powers between branches. Every law has to be confirmed constitutional before it goes into effect. That in itself is a boundary. Also, in a holistic way, the power comes back to the people when they are called to vote or speak their mind regarding any law they are against. I don't even understand what's your objection here.

4- Yes, in the EU we have a single market. And as a EU citizen I have the exact same right as any other citizen to buy a product from whatever other EU member state I wish. This is not even debatable. A company may create a specific website for a country, what they can't do is block users from other countries from it. It's really not as hard as you're making it out to be.