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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Gameware Stops Selling Xbox Systems in Reaction to Recent Game Pass Announcement

DonFerrari said:

I came out with negativity? Keep drinking your kool aid man, no one cares. I have digital for games I don't really care about collecting and have gone for under 10USD on the store.

You are just totally off-topic them. Because the thread is about a store removing Xbox from their shelves because of what MS is doing... want to give the advantages the store will see from the move MS done and why they should have kept the console?

Huh? They're a gaming store so selling more consoles leads to people buying more software? Most games are still released physically on Xbox One as far as I know and people will still buy them.

I can understand if they keep the stock low but if a customer wants to buy a console they should at least offer to order more stock. Otherwise it's just bad customer service and that's not good for business. Not to mention a gaming shop that refuses to sell consoles is ridiculous..



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VideoGameAccountant said:
CGI-Quality said:

I like that, though. Sony always brings something new to the table. Makes each PlayStation feel unique, but most of their properties are strong enough to return for more. And Killzone got a much needed break. They don't have a major history of running properties into the ground. 

There isn't anything wrong with making new stuff and more power to you if your happy with Sony's method. My criticism is you also need to be able to maintain a series for more than a generation or two. One of Sony's vulnerabilities is if third parties find an alternative. This hurt the PS3 as companies just made for the cheaper 360 as well and hurt the Vita as development resources were siphoned from the 3DS. God of War will be a real test because we'll see if Sony is able to revitalize a once successful but dormant series. Of course, this may be a topic for another thread.  

They mantain the series they think makes sense keeping. And they have little hesitation and letting series that have run it course go away. That is part of what I like on them. Just like I preffer manga and anime that it can even take 30 years to finish, but it have a defined course against american series or comics that they keep churning for until they can sell.

KiigelHeart said:
DonFerrari said:

I came out with negativity? Keep drinking your kool aid man, no one cares. I have digital for games I don't really care about collecting and have gone for under 10USD on the store.

You are just totally off-topic them. Because the thread is about a store removing Xbox from their shelves because of what MS is doing... want to give the advantages the store will see from the move MS done and why they should have kept the console?

Huh? They're a gaming store so selling more consoles leads to people buying more software? Most games are still released physically on Xbox One as far as I know and people will still buy them.

I can understand if they keep the stock low but if a customer wants to buy a console they should at least offer to order more stock. Otherwise it's just bad customer service and that's not good for business. Not to mention a gaming shop that refuses to sell consoles is ridiculous..

They are a gaming store for sure, in a country where Xbox is the smallest seller, the console give they loses and with the policies changes from MS (which we can see with play anywhere, game pass and on the start of the gen the always online vision) they won't be making money that justify keeping the system. Unless you have the numbers from the store to show they will lose money from stopping selling Xbox console your are just doing a baseless defense of MS.

Sometimes the cost of sale and cost of keeping a customer isn't worth it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

VideoGameAccountant said:
Mr Puggsly said:

"Fair point, now here's my convoluted argument."

You say Nintendo's games are to blame for Wii U's failure, is that typo? The problem wasn't the games, the problem was the hardware/controller. Wii U was expensive and the tablet control was dumb as a primary controller. If they stuck with Wiimotes it would have been cheaper and sold better.

I've had this discussion with people, its often argued the problem with X1 is it lacks a huge new IP. N64 had Goldeneye. Xbox had Halo and Fable. Xbox 360 had Gears of War. Wii U had Splatoon. However, X1's 35 million sales and growing means it has crushed N64, OG Xbox, and WIi U in spite of lacking a huge IP. As for Xbox 360, that console thrived thanks to the failure of PS3 and that lead to a plethora of support.

The reason X1 struggling today is because mistakes at launch, that shifted the momentum back to PlayStation. Bascially, Sony regained it momentum that was lost from PS3. Regardless what MS does and regardless if they get a great selling new IP, they still have to compete with the momentum of PS4. Even if 10 or 20 million people buy a X1 to play some HUGE NEW IP, it would still be way behind PS4. This is why your argument holds no water.

You basically praise Wii U for maintaining die hard fans, meanwhile the X1 crushed it in sales. That tells me the die hard fans don't matter as much as the masses. People buy X1 because it has large library of notable games AND notable exclusives.

What is your perception of saving Xbox? If its profitable and has a viable userbase, it doesn't need saving per se. Efforts are clearly being made to grow the userbase as well. The X1X just released, the Xbox One S is generally competitively priced, numerous exclusives are coming this year, and numerous more are planned. Realistically, what more do you expect?

You are right about Microsoft (momentum is what makes a success vs a failure), but what I'm getting at is that Microsoft hasn't maintained Microsoft fans. Sony has this and Nintendo has this, but Microsoft doesn't. You can see this. Discussion about XBox is either negative or nonexistent. It's pretty much dried up with the XBox One, and that's the problem. It speaks more that the 360 existed moreso as a substitute to the PS3. The reverse could be said about the PS4 and XBox One, but Sony also buckled down and gave consumers a reason to stick with Playstation. Microsoft really hasn't as they've been canceling projects, delaying games, and focusing more on services and other experiments. 

What you are missing is I'm talking about future generations, not the current one. Sony was able to bounce back from the PS3. Nintendo bounced back from the Wii U. But I don't see Microsoft bouncing back. It also doesn't help that Microsoft has only had one success in the video game industry where Sony and Nintendo have had several. Even during the tail-end of the PS3 and Wii U, consumers were still talking about those games and the companies supported them to the best of their abilities. Microsoft doesn't have that. Discussion of XBox is slim and there aren't many titles keeping people around. Sure, it's done better than the Wii U, but is Microsoft positioned for a strong Gen 9. My answer is no.

Lastly, the Wii U was an issue of games. Nintendo Land didn't set the world on fire like Wii Sports. New Super Mario Bros U helped to push systems, but there was clear franchise fatigue. Games like Pikmin 3 and Game & Wario didn't really help despite taking months to come out (by the by, ever wonder why you haven't seen another WarioWare and why Pikmin 4 is basically vaporware, this is why). You probably also don't remember that there was a Wii Fit U or a Wii Party U. The Wii U's line-up was lackluster in 2013 and although it improved later on, there wasn't enough in 2014 or 2015. But Nintendo kept their loyalist which kept Nintendo in the public discussion and made people interested in Nintendo Switch.  The same could be said for PS3 with Uncharted and the Last of Us. The base doesn't make the system a success but it can help when launching a new one.

Again, you praise the Wii U for its loyal fans while ignoring X1 crushed it and continues too grow. You also speak as if X1 is a dead platform with no notable content, your perception is different than reality. Sony also has delayed many games and are experimenting with services, they spent a fortune on PS Now. Again, MS is doing a lot to grow the userbase but you ignore it.

X1 is not the failure you believe. Its not a flop like Wii U which ultimately killed the Nintendo home console, X1 isnt losing money like OG Xbox and PS3, it certainly didnt flop like the Vita either. X1 is a viable platform and maybe the 9th gen for Xbox is futher closing the gap with Windows. I'd argue 360 and X1 are both successful if theyre profitable. Again, your perception is wrong.

You conveniently ignore the notable content Wii U did have, some of which is on or coming to Switch. Again, I argue price and the cumbersome, uninteresting, rarely utilized tablet gamepad killed Wii U. On a side note if the Wii U sold 35 million we might consider it a success, or atleast not a complete disaster.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 29 January 2018

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River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Thats dumb for only 2 games a year



DonFerrari said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

There isn't anything wrong with making new stuff and more power to you if your happy with Sony's method. My criticism is you also need to be able to maintain a series for more than a generation or two. One of Sony's vulnerabilities is if third parties find an alternative. This hurt the PS3 as companies just made for the cheaper 360 as well and hurt the Vita as development resources were siphoned from the 3DS. God of War will be a real test because we'll see if Sony is able to revitalize a once successful but dormant series. Of course, this may be a topic for another thread.  

They mantain the series they think makes sense keeping. And they have little hesitation and letting series that have run it course go away. That is part of what I like on them. Just like I preffer manga and anime that it can even take 30 years to finish, but it have a defined course against american series or comics that they keep churning for until they can sell.

KiigelHeart said:

Huh? They're a gaming store so selling more consoles leads to people buying more software? Most games are still released physically on Xbox One as far as I know and people will still buy them.

I can understand if they keep the stock low but if a customer wants to buy a console they should at least offer to order more stock. Otherwise it's just bad customer service and that's not good for business. Not to mention a gaming shop that refuses to sell consoles is ridiculous..

They are a gaming store for sure, in a country where Xbox is the smallest seller, the console give they loses and with the policies changes from MS (which we can see with play anywhere, game pass and on the start of the gen the always online vision) they won't be making money that justify keeping the system. Unless you have the numbers from the store to show they will lose money from stopping selling Xbox console your are just doing a baseless defense of MS.

Sometimes the cost of sale and cost of keeping a customer isn't worth it.

Do you have the numbers from the store that shows they’ll lose money because of Game Pass? No? So are you “just doing a baseless defense” of Gameware? You’d probably say no.

The store will obviously make less money from software and accessories, which unlike hardware, have good/great retail margins. And if the response to that is “well maybe they don’t sell enough software for Xbox to care!” then my response is who gives a shit if they stop selling? GameXChange stores around here don’t sell digital cards because retailers make virtually nothing off of them. This is just how business works.

The vast majority of software sold on Xbone and PS4 are third party games that aren’t even on Game Pass, lol.



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LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

They mantain the series they think makes sense keeping. And they have little hesitation and letting series that have run it course go away. That is part of what I like on them. Just like I preffer manga and anime that it can even take 30 years to finish, but it have a defined course against american series or comics that they keep churning for until they can sell.

They are a gaming store for sure, in a country where Xbox is the smallest seller, the console give they loses and with the policies changes from MS (which we can see with play anywhere, game pass and on the start of the gen the always online vision) they won't be making money that justify keeping the system. Unless you have the numbers from the store to show they will lose money from stopping selling Xbox console your are just doing a baseless defense of MS.

Sometimes the cost of sale and cost of keeping a customer isn't worth it.

Do you have the numbers from the store that shows they’ll lose money because of Game Pass? No? So are you “just doing a baseless defense” of Gameware? You’d probably say no.

The store will obviously make less money from software and accessories, which unlike hardware, have good/great retail margins. And if the response to that is “well maybe they don’t sell enough software for Xbox to care!” then my response is who gives a shit if they stop selling? GameXChange stores around here don’t sell digital cards because retailers make virtually nothing off of them. This is just how business works.

The vast majority of software sold on Xbone and PS4 are third party games that aren’t even on Game Pass, lol.

The numbers I have is that the store decided it isn't profitable for them to keep Xbox there... or do you think they done it because they like to lose money?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

The numbers I have is that the store decided it isn't profitable for them to keep Xbox there... or do you think they done it because they like to lose money?

Do you think Microsoft revealed the Xbone the way they did because they thought it would be received well and they'd sell a ton of units and make tons of money? Not every business decision is a wise one.

Even if they had one shelf designated for Xbone hardware, that's that much less money they'll have generated by hardware, and more importantly the software and accessories that go with them. As bitter as the statements made about Game Pass were, this seems like more of a message they're trying to send than any wise business decision. Either they're ok with making less money so long as they make their point, or they made so little from Xbone anyway that it is irrelevant to them and thus irrelevant to us as well.

But you have no concrete numbers or facts yourself, so it's dumb for you to tell someone they're just defending something without merit when in reality none of us know a damn thing official and we're all just sharing our opinions on the matter :)



They stopped selling Xbox consoles as a protest against game pass afaik. They most likely don't have concrete numbers themselves. Maybe game pass Will give a boost to console sales which leads to More physical games sold? Or like stated above, it's åossible they weren't making much money from Xbox anyway so they're protesting against something that's a good value for gamers. And yet we have people here defending them. Go figure.



LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

The numbers I have is that the store decided it isn't profitable for them to keep Xbox there... or do you think they done it because they like to lose money?

Do you think Microsoft revealed the Xbone the way they did because they thought it would be received well and they'd sell a ton of units and make tons of money? Not every business decision is a wise one.

Even if they had one shelf designated for Xbone hardware, that's that much less money they'll have generated by hardware, and more importantly the software and accessories that go with them. As bitter as the statements made about Game Pass were, this seems like more of a message they're trying to send than any wise business decision. Either they're ok with making less money so long as they make their point, or they made so little from Xbone anyway that it is irrelevant to them and thus irrelevant to us as well.

But you have no concrete numbers or facts yourself, so it's dumb for you to tell someone they're just defending something without merit when in reality none of us know a damn thing official and we're all just sharing our opinions on the matter :)

Sure not all business decision is right (but for competent companies their research and estimative was that they were doing a good move).

Sure again that it may have been more on sending a message than a sound business decision, but on missing better data I'll go with they have made a good choice (as I also think that even thought it may seem MS will lose money from gamepass, they have done their simulations and will probably earn more than they would on previous model, so if no one have more precises number MS get the benefit of doubt).

People are pointing as if they know it is a bad business decision, so the burden of proof rest on them.

KiigelHeart said:

They stopped selling Xbox consoles as a protest against game pass afaik. They most likely don't have concrete numbers themselves. Maybe game pass Will give a boost to console sales which leads to More physical games sold? Or like stated above, it's åossible they weren't making much money from Xbox anyway so they're protesting against something that's a good value for gamers. And yet we have people here defending them. Go figure.

They don't have the number of their sales??? Ok them. As much as you can defend MS right to do business as they want I and others will defend other companies to do the same as long as it isn't a crime.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Sure not all business decision is right (but for competent companies their research and estimative was that they were doing a good move).

Sure again that it may have been more on sending a message than a sound business decision, but on missing better data I'll go with they have made a good choice (as I also think that even thought it may seem MS will lose money from gamepass, they have done their simulations and will probably earn more than they would on previous model, so if no one have more precises number MS get the benefit of doubt).

People are pointing as if they know it is a bad business decision, so the burden of proof rest on them.

So just like I said, others are "baseless defending", but somehow your own unsubstantiated opinions with zero concrete numbers is not "baseless defending" lol. Also, this move was made like a day after the Game Pass stuff was announced by Microsoft. Hardly enough time to make any sort of informed business decision or conduct adequate research. Hell, the games aren't even in the program yet, lol.

The person you quoted and told was "defending Microsoft" said stuff like this:

It's ridiculous for a video game store to not sell consoles.
More consoles sold = more people games sold.
Games are still sold physically.
It's bad customer service to not offer a console and bad customer service is not good for business.

Do you really need someone to post numbers to meet your "burden of proof" here? It all seems like extremely simply, logical stuff. Disagree with someone else all you want and voice your opinion, but don't act as if your opinion or point of view is any less "baseless" than his.