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Forums - Sports Discussion - Wrestling: Chris Jericho earns first 5-Star Match after nearly 30 years in the business

Also OP: Kenny Omega has actually broken the 6 Star barrier three times.

His first match with Okada at Wrestle Kingdom last year was 6 stars and their rematch at Dominion was 6 1/4 stars, which is actually the highest rating Meltzer has ever given. And then their 3rd match at the G1 broke 6 stars as well.

I think Meltzer my have a little bit of bias towards the Okada/Omega rivalries, just a little.



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PAOerfulone said:
Also OP: Kenny Omega has actually broken the 6 Star barrier three times.

His first match with Okada at Wrestle Kingdom last year was 6 stars and their rematch at Dominion was 6 1/4 stars, which is actually the highest rating Meltzer has ever given. And then their 3rd match at the G1 broke 6 stars as well.

I think Meltzer my have a little bit of bias towards the Okada/Omega rivalries, just a little.

I'm beginning to wonder the same thing, because I watched a bunch of the matches that   he gave 5 and 6 stars to, and while they were definitely good - great even - I wouldn't put them as 'best of all time' level. 

Alpha vs Omega was great, definitely 5 stars, but better than BOTH of the Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Mania Matches? Nope. Not a snowball's chance in hell. Meltzer seems to have a bias for Japan or a bias against WWE. 

Hell, I don't even think WWE is THAT great, but there's no way Michaels/Taker is rated lower than Alpha vs Omega. And this is coming from someone who has Jericho as my all time favorite and consider Omega to be quite possibly the best worker today. IT was good, it was nowhere near the level of Taker/Michaels. 

Or hell, JEricho Michaels. 

Point is, I either just 'don't get' what Meltzer sees in Japanese wrestling, or he has a boner. Either way, I don't agree. 



Alara317 said:
PAOerfulone said:
Also OP: Kenny Omega has actually broken the 6 Star barrier three times.

His first match with Okada at Wrestle Kingdom last year was 6 stars and their rematch at Dominion was 6 1/4 stars, which is actually the highest rating Meltzer has ever given. And then their 3rd match at the G1 broke 6 stars as well.

I think Meltzer my have a little bit of bias towards the Okada/Omega rivalries, just a little.

I'm beginning to wonder the same thing, because I watched a bunch of the matches that   he gave 5 and 6 stars to, and while they were definitely good - great even - I wouldn't put them as 'best of all time' level. 

Alpha vs Omega was great, definitely 5 stars, but better than BOTH of the Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Mania Matches? Nope. Not a snowball's chance in hell. Meltzer seems to have a bias for Japan or a bias against WWE. 

Hell, I don't even think WWE is THAT great, but there's no way Michaels/Taker is rated lower than Alpha vs Omega. And this is coming from someone who has Jericho as my all time favorite and consider Omega to be quite possibly the best worker today. IT was good, it was nowhere near the level of Taker/Michaels. 

Or hell, JEricho Michaels. 

Point is, I either just 'don't get' what Meltzer sees in Japanese wrestling, or he has a boner. Either way, I don't agree. 

I think part of it may have something to do with Meltzer, now I may be wrong about this, this is just my hypothesis, but it may have something to do with him wanting to help expose New Japan and expand its popularity to the American wrestling audience. Because, Omega vs. Okada I, I recall, was actually trending on Twitter because of how incredible that match was, and it definitely was, and then Meltzer gave it 6 Stars out of 5, and I was hearing about how very, very few matches get that rating. In fact, it was only the 2nd match in WON history to get that rating, so I thought, "Holy Shit, I'm missing out! I gotta see this match!"
And hey, if that really is the plan. It's working! Wrestling Kingdom 12 was their most successful Tokyo Dome show in over a decade! New Japan has been gaining more and more momentum over the last year and part of that is because of the matches themselves, their quality, and the praise they've been getting from veterans of the business like Meltzer. 

But yeah, I agree, while those matches, as well as this one, were amazing. Slow down, people. 



Just finished watching. It was a good match, even with me not knowing Kenny Omega going into it. Might have had a bigger impact on me if I had more context.

I would give it a 4/5 on todays WWE scale, but compaired to the Attitude Era its just a bit run of the mill.

My favorite Jericho match is still the Sone Cold & HHH vs Jericho & Benoit on Raw when HHH tore his quad. Only about 18 minutes long, but it was non stop action.

I think the best match of all time is Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon at King of the Ring 2001.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

KBG29 said:
Just finished watching. It was a good match, even with me not knowing Kenny Omega going into it. Might have had a bigger impact on me if I had more context.

I would give it a 4/5 on todays WWE scale, but compaired to the Attitude Era its just a bit run of the mill.

My favorite Jericho match is still the Sone Cold & HHH vs Jericho & Benoit on Raw when HHH tore his quad. Only about 18 minutes long, but it was non stop action.

I think the best match of all time is Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon at King of the Ring 2001.

I'm watching the Attitude era right now, and the matches are kind of shitty, to be honest. They are definitely NOT the main attraction of the show. It's the soap-opera stuff revolving around the McMahon family.

In fact, the RAW/Smackdown crowds seem to genuinely hate it when matches go beyond the 4-minute mark without any interruptions with story development stuff. In the last show I watched, Kurt Angle actually got a "boring" chant when his match ran a little long, and he's pretty much the best wrestler on the show right now (it's between him, Jericho, E&C, and the Hardys - the Rock has the flashiest/most entertaining style, but not as skillful as these guys).

Also, the main event slot for the last bit has been story segments for the most part; not matches.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:
KBG29 said:
Just finished watching. It was a good match, even with me not knowing Kenny Omega going into it. Might have had a bigger impact on me if I had more context.

I would give it a 4/5 on todays WWE scale, but compaired to the Attitude Era its just a bit run of the mill.

My favorite Jericho match is still the Sone Cold & HHH vs Jericho & Benoit on Raw when HHH tore his quad. Only about 18 minutes long, but it was non stop action.

I think the best match of all time is Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon at King of the Ring 2001.

I'm watching the Attitude era right now, and the matches are kind of shitty, to be honest. They are definitely NOT the main attraction of the show. It's the soap-opera stuff revolving around the McMahon family.

In fact, the RAW/Smackdown crowds seem to genuinely hate it when matches go beyond the 4-minute mark without any interruptions with story development stuff. In the last show I watched, Kurt Angle actually got a "boring" chant when his match ran a little long, and he's pretty much the best wrestler on the show right now (it's between him, Jericho, E&C, and the Hardys - the Rock has the flashiest/most entertaining style, but not as skillful as these guys).

Also, the main event slot for the last bit has been story segments for the most part; not matches.

I started watching every WWF/WWE PPV in order starting from 1996 - 2008 when WWE Network launched. For my taste the best matches happened between 1997 - 2004. I only have a small sample from before 1996, and I have watched every WWE PPV since 2009 Wrestlemania.

I typically don't watch a lot of matches from RAW and Smackdown, and I havn't went back to watch the archived shows at all. RAW and Smackdown are shows, PPVs are where the talent showcase their in ring talent. Every now and then you will get a great match on RAW or Smackdown though.

Maybe we just have diferent taste though. 



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

KBG29 said:
Jumpin said:

I'm watching the Attitude era right now, and the matches are kind of shitty, to be honest. They are definitely NOT the main attraction of the show. It's the soap-opera stuff revolving around the McMahon family.

In fact, the RAW/Smackdown crowds seem to genuinely hate it when matches go beyond the 4-minute mark without any interruptions with story development stuff. In the last show I watched, Kurt Angle actually got a "boring" chant when his match ran a little long, and he's pretty much the best wrestler on the show right now (it's between him, Jericho, E&C, and the Hardys - the Rock has the flashiest/most entertaining style, but not as skillful as these guys).

Also, the main event slot for the last bit has been story segments for the most part; not matches.

I started watching every WWF/WWE PPV in order starting from 1996 - 2008 when WWE Network launched. For my taste the best matches happened between 1997 - 2004. I only have a small sample from before 1996, and I have watched every WWE PPV since 2009 Wrestlemania.

I typically don't watch a lot of matches from RAW and Smackdown, and I havn't went back to watch the archived shows at all. RAW and Smackdown are shows, PPVs are where the talent showcase their in ring talent. Every now and then you will get a great match on RAW or Smackdown though.

Maybe we just have diferent taste though. 

I'm watching all the Attitude era on the WWE network (except Sunday Night Heat because European WWE network doesn't have it!).

Don't get me wrong, I love the product, but the wrestling quality of 98/99 was IMO not very high, and not the main attraction of the show. This includes PPVs. Not all the matches are terrible, but a good match seems rare. I found that if a match was entertaining, it invariably involved The Rock or Mankind in some capacity.... Until No Mercy 1999 that is when there was a very good ladder match between Edge and Christian vs. the Hardy Boyz.

On the other hand, I'm aware that wrestling quality picks up significantly in early 2000.

While late 99 is regarded as the worst of the worst of the Attitude era, I am going to have to disagree with the general wrestling fanbase.  I've been finding matches getting faster and more entertaining, more high impact-looking stuff: Rikishi's been added to the roster, and despite his limited move-set, his high-impact fat Samoan style seems to be gold in those short sub-4 minute matches. The Rock also has these super-explosive combo sets that he does on Raw and Smackdown that work very well in the shorter matches. 

Jericho is an astonishing in-ring performer, but he's currently in this garbage program with Chyna that seems to have gone on forever. His matches have been somewhat weak so far - it appears that in 1999 he hadn't got the Lionsault down yet either because even the ones he does in current days look significantly better; either that or the ropes just sucked during 99.

Even the garbage matches I am finding are more entertaining. The pool match between Miss Kitty, Ivory, BB Bush, and Jacqueline for the women's title at Armageddon was fucking ridiculous and over-the-top, but somehow WAY more interesting than those stupid boring evening gown matches with Sable back when she was still a thing; I have no idea how Sable was popular, it's like the entire audience was so depraved and sex-starved that they were actually entertained by some old-looking woman with floppy implants  who couldn't wrestle and couldn't do a promo.

So in my opinion, things are getting much better in later 99, and I know there's still nearly a year and a half of Attitude era left. I am currently on Armageddon 99, in the middle of it.

But, if Jericho vs. Omega happened in 98 or 99, I would consider it to be among the top 3 matches between both those years (with Mankind vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell and Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz making up the other two); there is a match between The Rock and Foley (Either Royal Rumble or No Way Out 99) that I remember really liking a lot as well, they had a few matches, and I forget which happened when, but one of them was a lot better than the others - it was one of the matches with the Rock getting on the mic throughout; that'd be my fourth. I'll say Rock vs Austin Wrestlemania to round out the top 5, but I don't remember that one sticking out much to me (to be honest) - I saw their second Wrestlemania match (2001) with the severe chair beating, and that one I liked better.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
KBG29 said:

I started watching every WWF/WWE PPV in order starting from 1996 - 2008 when WWE Network launched. For my taste the best matches happened between 1997 - 2004. I only have a small sample from before 1996, and I have watched every WWE PPV since 2009 Wrestlemania.

I typically don't watch a lot of matches from RAW and Smackdown, and I havn't went back to watch the archived shows at all. RAW and Smackdown are shows, PPVs are where the talent showcase their in ring talent. Every now and then you will get a great match on RAW or Smackdown though.

Maybe we just have diferent taste though. 

I'm watching all the Attitude era on the WWE network (except Sunday Night Heat because European WWE network doesn't have it!).

Don't get me wrong, I love the product, but the wrestling quality of 98/99 was IMO not very high, and not the main attraction of the show. This includes PPVs. Not all the matches are terrible, but a good match seems rare. I found that if a match was entertaining, it invariably involved The Rock or Mankind in some capacity.... Until No Mercy 1999 that is when there was a very good ladder match between Edge and Christian vs. the Hardy Boyz.

On the other hand, I'm aware that wrestling quality picks up significantly in early 2000.

While late 99 is regarded as the worst of the worst of the Attitude era, I am going to have to disagree with the general wrestling fanbase.  I've been finding matches getting faster and more entertaining, more high impact-looking stuff: Rikishi's been added to the roster, and despite his limited move-set, his high-impact fat Samoan style seems to be gold in those short sub-4 minute matches. The Rock also has these super-explosive combo sets that he does on Raw and Smackdown that work very well in the shorter matches. 

Jericho is an astonishing in-ring performer, but he's currently in this garbage program with Chyna that seems to have gone on forever. His matches have been somewhat weak so far - it appears that in 1999 he hadn't got the Lionsault down yet either because even the ones he does in current days look significantly better; either that or the ropes just sucked during 99.

Even the garbage matches I am finding are more entertaining. The pool match between Miss Kitty, Ivory, BB Bush, and Jacqueline for the women's title at Armageddon was fucking ridiculous and over-the-top, but somehow WAY more interesting than those stupid boring evening gown matches with Sable back when she was still a thing; I have no idea how Sable was popular, it's like the entire audience was so depraved and sex-starved that they were actually entertained by some old-looking woman with floppy implants  who couldn't wrestle and couldn't do a promo.

So in my opinion, things are getting much better in later 99, and I know there's still nearly a year and a half of Attitude era left. I am currently on Armageddon 99, in the middle of it.

But, if Jericho vs. Omega happened in 98 or 99, I would consider it to be among the top 3 matches between both those years (with Mankind vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell and Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz making up the other two); there is a match between The Rock and Foley (Either Royal Rumble or No Way Out 99) that I remember really liking a lot as well, they had a few matches, and I forget which happened when, but one of them was a lot better than the others - it was one of the matches with the Rock getting on the mic throughout; that'd be my fourth. I'll say Rock vs Austin Wrestlemania to round out the top 5, but I don't remember that one sticking out much to me (to be honest) - I saw their second Wrestlemania match (2001) with the severe chair beating, and that one I liked better.

I'm watching through the Attitude Era also, and I have to say it's good for people who want to see shocking things happen, but unfortunately (with Russo at least) the stories don't make much sense. All the heel and face turns and people betraying each other only to get back together, only to betray the other one again. However, I did really like the Brood's face turn against the Ministry of Darkness because it actually made sense. I honestly can't stand Sable either. I actually find DX annoying because of their toilet and vulgar humour (however, I did think they were excellent heels with Michaels as the leader). I'm hoping the writing will get better when Russo leaves (I haven't gotten there yet).



Hey, Kenny Omega. He's awesome. Also a big fan of fighting games and can play them competently. (Enters tournaments, etc.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc8iOeB3y4U

He's also a huge fan of videogames in general, and seems like a really nice guy too.

Last edited by Hiku - on 18 January 2018

HomokHarcos said:
Jumpin said:

I'm watching all the Attitude era on the WWE network (except Sunday Night Heat because European WWE network doesn't have it!).

Don't get me wrong, I love the product, but the wrestling quality of 98/99 was IMO not very high, and not the main attraction of the show. This includes PPVs. Not all the matches are terrible, but a good match seems rare. I found that if a match was entertaining, it invariably involved The Rock or Mankind in some capacity.... Until No Mercy 1999 that is when there was a very good ladder match between Edge and Christian vs. the Hardy Boyz.

On the other hand, I'm aware that wrestling quality picks up significantly in early 2000.

While late 99 is regarded as the worst of the worst of the Attitude era, I am going to have to disagree with the general wrestling fanbase.  I've been finding matches getting faster and more entertaining, more high impact-looking stuff: Rikishi's been added to the roster, and despite his limited move-set, his high-impact fat Samoan style seems to be gold in those short sub-4 minute matches. The Rock also has these super-explosive combo sets that he does on Raw and Smackdown that work very well in the shorter matches. 

Jericho is an astonishing in-ring performer, but he's currently in this garbage program with Chyna that seems to have gone on forever. His matches have been somewhat weak so far - it appears that in 1999 he hadn't got the Lionsault down yet either because even the ones he does in current days look significantly better; either that or the ropes just sucked during 99.

Even the garbage matches I am finding are more entertaining. The pool match between Miss Kitty, Ivory, BB Bush, and Jacqueline for the women's title at Armageddon was fucking ridiculous and over-the-top, but somehow WAY more interesting than those stupid boring evening gown matches with Sable back when she was still a thing; I have no idea how Sable was popular, it's like the entire audience was so depraved and sex-starved that they were actually entertained by some old-looking woman with floppy implants  who couldn't wrestle and couldn't do a promo.

So in my opinion, things are getting much better in later 99, and I know there's still nearly a year and a half of Attitude era left. I am currently on Armageddon 99, in the middle of it.

But, if Jericho vs. Omega happened in 98 or 99, I would consider it to be among the top 3 matches between both those years (with Mankind vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell and Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz making up the other two); there is a match between The Rock and Foley (Either Royal Rumble or No Way Out 99) that I remember really liking a lot as well, they had a few matches, and I forget which happened when, but one of them was a lot better than the others - it was one of the matches with the Rock getting on the mic throughout; that'd be my fourth. I'll say Rock vs Austin Wrestlemania to round out the top 5, but I don't remember that one sticking out much to me (to be honest) - I saw their second Wrestlemania match (2001) with the severe chair beating, and that one I liked better.

I'm watching through the Attitude Era also, and I have to say it's good for people who want to see shocking things happen, but unfortunately (with Russo at least) the stories don't make much sense. All the heel and face turns and people betraying each other only to get back together, only to betray the other one again. However, I did really like the Brood's face turn against the Ministry of Darkness because it actually made sense. I honestly can't stand Sable either. I actually find DX annoying because of their toilet and vulgar humour (however, I did think they were excellent heels with Michaels as the leader). I'm hoping the writing will get better when Russo leaves (I haven't gotten there yet).

I think the big turning point in the writing was when the wedding thing happened, there was a definite shift toward much better and more coherency. The Brood was really awesome, I thought Gangrel was a really cool gimmick, but he became less used on the main shows through 99. DX changes significantly through 99 as well, although they stop really being DX; they stop acting like cringey 13-year-olds. Triple H becomes much more interesting in the latter part of 99. Although it built up from late 98 (or early 99, I forget exactly when it was), pretty much the moment you hear his "My Time" style theme song his character changes significantly - he sheds the goofy stuff and begins his always angry/intense manipulator gimmick.

The addition of Smackdown in 99 really shook things up, I think the writing became a little shakier because they now had double the ground to cover. But in this time, the show also begins to feel "bigger" than before. I know Russo said he burnt out in this period; the WWE was really due for a change and new head writer.

In 99, the storylines actually were much more over-the-top through than they were in 98; but I think by the end of year they were almost a parody of the earlier part of the Attitude era. Personally speaking, I found them much more entertaining. Vince Russo left at the end of September 1999; so there's a bit of nonsensical stuff that happens over the next couple of months. They hired a new head writer, Chris Kreski, in October 99 - but they were essentially still running Russo storylines for the next couple of months. Though the shakeup can clearly be seen. While they were still Russo-style segments, they were executed far better than before. From a narrative standpoint, it becomes much better in December 99. I haven't seen a huge amount of WWE, but the shows seem more polished than they had ever been before by the end of the year.

Anyway, WAY off topic.

So Kenny Omega! I might actually watch current (non-NXT) WWE if he joins the roster :D
I watch NXT time to time, caught a few 205 Lives, and watched the Mae Young Classic, but I don't watch much in the way of current WWE outside of that. The only thing I saw from Raw/Smackdown from all 2017 was Wrestlemania.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.